Inliners International Forums General Discussion Vortec 4200

Hmm. all the other 4.2 exhaust manifolds that I have seen are 6 into 1.

I was wondering if we could find out the pn's for the front and rear manifolds?

AThe manifolds are made from stock ones, contact Tom Langdon at Stovebolt Engine Co. I made the engine adapter from a piece of 3/8 in plate. It bolts to a chev bellhsg, the clutch is a centerforce that I had left from my 250in six and uses the internal hydraulic throwout with the T56. The flywheel came from Jerry Weigt. The pilot bearing and flywheel bolts are from a 5 cyl Colorado.

My question is does anyone have one of these runnig yet with a modified GM PCM ?

Not yet but I'm working on mine to go into a 64 Nova. Engine will be stock with auto trans. My plan is to reporgram the stock pcm to eliminate any unnecessary functions and modify the stock wiring harness to work.

An observation: Vortec 4200 is about the longest running topic in some time.Do you think the start of a new post might be in order just to shorten a search in the future?

Sure,start a new topic & go from there.
Like ECU's,fuel injectors, etc.
MBHD

Did you use the old sbc chevy style bell housing or the ls1 bell housing?

I'm not familiar with the north end of a southbound LS 1. The bellhousing I'm using came from the same 02 Firebird as the T56 and other than a missing bolt hole and maybe different sized dowel pins you can interchange any old Chevy bellhousing. The beauty of making the back of any motor the same pattern, flywheel starter dimensions as a Chev is that you can then buy an adapter to bolt it to about anything from a Model A to an F1 gearbox.

Cool I didn't know that the LS1 and the older chevy's backside were that simalar. You wouldn't be interested in making another adaptor plate would you? I would be very interested.

Not right now, first order of business is to get mine running on the street, maybe next winter. Just a hint, any time I make an adapter I make the first one from plywood if I can. If that looks like it will work then you get out the steel or aluminum.

Thanks for the tip..

I finally got my hands on a 4.2L. Sadly it wont be going in my truck. I went with a LS6/T56 combo. I know, a v thing.

But my Dad will be using the 4.2 in his '56 chevy truck with the stock 4L60 behind it. It will recieve a turbo eventually as well as a built block. I'll make a thread when it starts going down.

alright, good news. I went to the goodguys show in Columbus this past weekend and talked to a compnany named Howell who has already done a few 4.2L engines in boats with harness and computer tuning. They said soon the harness and computer will be a stocked part availible to everyone.

Im guessing it will be in the neighborhood of $700 because thats what the LS1 harness are.

Just a heads up.

Do you have contact infor for Howell's?

Howell Engine Developments, INC
Phone: 810-765-5100
Fax:810-765-1503
6201 Industrail Way
Marine city, Michigan 48039

I just fired my trailblazer/healey for the first time. I think I got so excited I almost soiled myself. I first tried it yesterday on ether and then on gas spray for about 10 seconds. Tonight I filled the tank and connected the pump. Boy did that sound sweet and it was running off the PCM. The only part that wasn't working was the fuelp pump trigger so I jury rigged it off the ignition. I ran it for about a minute and then revved it up and shredded the serpentine belt and sheared off the tube to my oil pressure gauge. Oh well, back to the drawing board for the belt drive and if I have to I can run the fuel pump relay off the ignition and thru an oil pressure switch. Boy it sounded great!!!

GREAT NEWS!!!

Um, dude, where are the photos?

Pictures? How about Video, and sound maybe? Please

C'mon guys give me a break all this internet stuff is tough, I'm just trying to get my car going, in time.

I spoke with Lydon at Wester's Garage, he programed the PCM for me and he said he thought it was the first one he'd done that was running. I had the wiring reversed on the fuel pump relay and he helped me with that. I also talked with Tom Langdon at Stovebolt Eng. (he did the split manifolds) and he's going to see if he can modify a stock pan for me for more clearance. I've done one but it has some porosity and Tom has access to much more sophisticated welding equip and welder. If anyone else has a specific oil pan problem please post it and maybe we can get some done for others. I have to do a little redesign on the serpentine drive but I'm trying to have this on the street by mid august. If you need help I recommend Lyndon and Tom, find them on the net. More later this week.

Not exactly later this week, but.... Well I finally got the Trailblazer Healey on the road for a bit. Hold the RPMs down short shift it and it is strong and a joy to drive around town. It lugs without protest and is smooth. Rev it up and it goes like someone stuffed a rocket up your .... Wow! Right now I'm using an old set of 165-15 Michelins and a 3.55 open rear end since I don't have traction bars yet and I don't want to tear the rear end out of the car. Traction is non existent in first and not much better in second but it pulls like a train in the higher gears. I had to pull the trans out and take the McLeod spacer out. It set the trans back to far with the extra adapter plate so the hydraulic internal throw out extended to far and blew out all its fluid. I'm driving it without the trans tunnel cover on yet or the hood so I get a few looks. I am lowering the throttle body another 3/4 inch so it will clear the hood. I'll have that on this weekend and will put a few more miles on. I intend to take it to Detroit next wed, thurs, and fri for Woodward. If you're around I should be at the Hot Rod Magazine parth Thurs nite. More on this when I get back.
PS. I don't have a working Tach yet. I do have the Engine Speed Sensor wire from the PCM but I'm not sure if their is a way to use it to power my existing tach which is a SW unit that I was getting a signal for from the Tach terminal of a non computer GM HEI. Anyone got any suggestions? Thanks

Doesn't MSD stuff cover it?

that is exciting to hear. did you have the ecm reprogrammed? tom

I have used the tach wire from a PCM before on other swaps (Quad 4 (twice)and Ford 4.0 SOHC V6). It worked fine for me. I wouldn't expect GM to go wierd all of a sudden, but you never know till you try.

Thanks guys, I found a part from MSD for distributorless engines for about $40. I'll have that on Monday so that should solve the Tach issue. Yes you have to get the PCM reprogrammed to get rid of the passlock antitheft circuitry. A warning. I had an extra spacer (scallop ring from McLeod) as well as my adapter plate and the trans was back just a hair to far. Step on the clutch and the internal throuout traveled to far and came apart. Everything is now back together with one less spacer and works great. Also took it to the muffler shop and had 1.5" OD tailpipes installed that look like stock Healey except the're on the wrong side. Now it just sounds like a very healthy Healey!

This week we fired the Vortec 4.2 race engine for the Black Opel team in prep for Bonneville using megasquirt and Ford EDIS for the ignition system. Once we sorted out the firing order the engine fired on the second try.
Within 10 min's we had the idle fuel dialed in.
A day later we headed to the dyno and got the mid range dialed in enough to do a full pull. We got 1 full pull in before mechanical gremlins came to pay a visit.

We'll be ready for the Oct. meet.

Efi-diy

Was it that difficult to solve the firing order issue? I've been thinking about the EDIS system for a while but never had a chance to get in touch with. Which crank trigger are you using? Custom made or stock trail blazer one?

Not really once we knew the firing order for the donor engine. They are using an EDIS 36-1 trigger wheel from a ford escort and a custom adapter bracket and mount in conjuntion with the dry sump oil pump drive.

With the EDIS coil pack input connector on the right side of the coil pack the correct cyl. pairing is:

rear

1,6 connector
3,4
2,5

front

Once the initial timing check is done with a timing light and set for 10 deg BTDC - the rest of the timing adjustments are done in the tuning software. The car owner is new to EFI and after checking several advance points with the timing light against what the laptop was saying - he put the timing light away for good....

The one item that needs to be checked if you get no spark then try revresing the VR sensor wires - even if the wire colours are mis-matched. This bit us for a while.

Not really once we knew the firing order for the donor engine. They are using an EDIS 36-1 trigger wheel from a ford escort and a custom adapter bracket and mount in conjuntion with the dry sump oil pump drive.

With the EDIS coil pack input connector on the right side of the coil pack the correct cyl. pairing is:

rear

1,6 connector
3,4
2,5

front

Once the initial timing check is done with a timing light and set for 10 deg BTDC - the rest of the timing adjustments are done in the tuning software. The car owner is new to EFI and after checking several advance points with the timing light against what the laptop was saying - he put the timing light away for good....

The one item that needs to be checked if you get no spark then try revresing the VR sensor wires - even if the wire colours are mis-matched. This bit us for a while.

I've read somewhere that interface between EDIS and MS is very simple with only one go-return signal. Is it that simple? Does MS retard timing when using a charger boost?

Yes, the interface is just 3 wires: PIP input to MS << tells MS when a trigger event occured, SAW output from MS to the EDIS <<< tells the EDIS system to adjust the timing & a gnd. wire. You program the advance curve to suit your application, so yes under boost you can retard the timing.

From the Grassroots Motorsports Board:

http://www.hotrodparts.com/rollsbentleyparts/6_cyl_gm_4_2l.htm



Greg

Now that's interesting.

I've been reading about the 4200 with interest with an eye towards putting one into a 60-63 Ranchero or Locost. Then the idea struck me. Could one keep the Trailblazer awd configuration and put it into something like the Ranchero? It'd undoubtedly require me to extend the current limits of my skill set, but potentially be a heck of an end result. What major obstacles should I expect to encounter beyond the obvious one of making a RWD vehicle drive the front wheels?

You would want the whole truck it came out of. The easiest way I can think of making a 2X4 into a 4X4 would be to graft the Ranchero onto the chassis the engine comes with. Second easiest way would be to graft all the stuff for the 4X4 drive train (and suspension) onto the Ranchero. It would be difficult to reinforce the Ranchero enough that it would be what I would want to call reliable. Lotsa work either way, but I guess it all depends on what you are after. You could have a 'redneck' Ranchero, or you could lower it and have a rally Ranchero. You would definitely be the only one in the parking lot either way.

Oct./07 update

Last weekend the megasquirt designers anounced that a new megasquirt module will be available before the end of the year that will support coil on plug ignition and sequential fuel injection. So a non-GM Tunable ECM system will be available to run this motor and should use all the factory sensors. Not announced yet is cam phaser control. The one item that I dought will ever happen is drive by wire so the throttle body will need to be swapped out for a earlier LS1 cable type.

so how is it running? had it on the road yet? tom

YEAH! The old truck is running... the old truck in running!

After struggling for 2 1/2 weeks with the 4L60E its finally shifting 1,2,3,4! I put about 6 miles on it tonight - a world of difference from the 292, smooth torquey. The lokar shifter is not working correctly so to test drive it I left the transmission floor pan off and bitched a piece of ready rod together as a shfiter... need 1st gear use my toe to push the shift lever forward - it'll get fixed very soon.. We're just running out of weather here - the leaves are down off the trees and snow is about 2-3 weeks out.... so I really want to drive it.

Congratulations! I'm very excited that you're doing this. A state-of-the-art American I-6 (with megasquirt) is a wonderful thing and fertile ground for many swaps.

Do you expect to dyno it? I'd be very interested in seeing the power curves with MS versus the factory programming. Particularly, the effects of locking out the variable valve timing.

Since my last post on August 8 I've put about 6-700 miles on my 4.2 Healey conversion. 400 mile trip to Stowe Vt for British Invasion car show averaged 30 MPG with 32 for one tankful. With stock PCM and all contols (Cam) it pulls like a tractor at any speed. I have a 6 spd trans but it would be just as quick with a 3 spd with all that torque. I have to put some upper torque arms on the rear axle this winter and then I'll put some bigger tires on it. It got a lot of whatzat questions from people trying to aguess what the motor was. All in all I'm extremely happy with the conversion

I had my vortec powered '51 GMC on the dyno over this week end and I learned an important lesson - these new motors DON'T like a lot of advance - on 92 octane at WOT 22 degs is all it wants or needs. I thought I had a safe tune up in with 32 deg total but no it rattled real bad.

At the end of the session we had a safe tune up - not fully optimized for power but still made about 210 at the rear wheels. This was in direct drive with the convertor locked up going through a 9" diff. so a 20% loss is not unreasonable. About 250 HP at the crank at 2300' ASL. The air was decent - 95 to 96 KPa.

With just a conical type air filter installed it sounds like Thor's vacumm cleaner thats ****ed off... the thing just roars and arond 3800 rpm the pitch change so I think the oil pressure alone is moving the exhaust cam around.

Once I have the video of the last dyno run I'll post a link..