Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance Mighty six! I have a question

Hi, I was told that you know about reinforcing the main caps #'s 4,5,6, on a Chevy inline six cylinder.Do you have any pictures of one? Do you sell them?
I want one for my Chevy 250 six cylinder.
Thank you!
Hank

Hey Hank,

'Scuuze me for buttin' in here . . . .

How soon will you actually be ready to install a girdle ? That's one of the items I was planning on making for my motor. I don't have mine torn down yet so I don't have any measurements. If you can wait a while I would be willing to make several of them.

Here's another item I've been thinking about in regards to strengthening the bottom end . . . .

Cryogenic tempering . . . . . it's simillar to heat treating only it's done with liquid Nitrogen instead,from what I've been reading it should be very beneficial to have the crank treated in this manner. I believe that it would help reduce the inherant problems the inline 6 has with tortional flex and significantly increase the strength of a cast crank. This would be especially noteworthy in Blower,Turbo and Nitrous applications.

Here's a link to one of the companies that do this if your interested in checking it out.

http://www.300below.com/site/home.html

'Crockett

Hey Crockett!
This will take a while to do my project, so it is not a real big rush. But I would like to get the bottom end parts going so I can get @ least the lower end done sometime soooon. I still need to buy other items. Cryogenic tempering seems to work well in a lot of applications. Some GP racers I raced with had there cylinders done, clutch plates & so on, seems to make there parts last longer. I will look into it.
Let me know when you plan on making the girdles I do need one!
Thanks
I am planning on making 600HP.

Hank,

You and I need to get together on our projects because it seems that we're both headed down the same road !

How streetable do you think your 600hp combo will be ? Or, have you just decided to build it for Drag only ? 600hp would be pretty ambitious for a 6 on the street !

I LIKE the way you think !

'Crockett

Hank- No, I dont run one. Mike Kirby and I had a long disgussion on this subject. We believe that running a mid motor plate helps prevent twist in the motor. I decided not mess with it because the aluminum rods were using barley clear the pan rails. A new pan was a must and Mike didnt think it was worth the time.

O.K. THINK ABOUT THIS! If Mikes twin motor car on 30% nitro makes 1400 hp and doesnt need one. I didnt think I needed one either. Think about the stress on the last 2-3 cylinders.

Steven

Thanks Steven,
so just how much HP can a 250 Chevy bottom end take w/steel Crower rods? How much HP are you makeing @ the crank or wheels? I would like to eventually run up to 700 HP, what will let go first? :-)
Hank

'Crockett,
My Camaro will mainly be built for the drags... but will see the street to go to car gatherings.
It will be street legal,& be able to run pump gas.
I would like to be able to run in the 10's....well see.
It is a big project/dream of mine. :-)
Hank

Hank- Mikes motors make 700 hp each with little failure. Mike also claims the last rod journal is where the failure is most likley to happen. A yearly inspection whouldnt hurt either. My motor makes 575-600hp at the crank with 175 hp nitrous. What kind of power adder are you useing Blower,Turbo,Nitrous?

Steven

PS- I think the weak link in a 292 in the block. The long cylinder bores will give out. A 250 with the shorter deck maybe the way to go.

Steven,
I will be useing a turbocharger & I do plan on running a 250. What are your times running the Chevy w/nitrous? How much does your vehicle weigh?
Thanks
Hank

At that time I think 2800-2840 lb. I cant remember if the fuel cell was full. The best pass was a 10.10 et 128+ mph. Boy,that motor was tired. We were putting in head gasket every 3-4 passes. If it would have keept a head gasket in it would have run a 9 second pass.

Who is doing your fabrication on the header and intake ? What kind of car are you building?

Steven

My friend & I are going to build the intake & exhaust manifolds.
Unless you know someone here in Ca. that is reasonable.?
Did you have the block or head o-ringed?
What brand of head gaskets are you running?
I never blew out those Felpro headgaskets, the one w/a 4.125 bore? Stainless o-ring built in.
I like watching your 1/4 mile video passes,sounds awesome,way cool!!
The car I am building is a 69 Camaro.
Good luck w/your next build -up w/the Kirby head!
Is it close to being built?
Are you still going to run nitrous?
Hank

Yes, the O-ring is profiled in the block to match the fire ring on that Felpro gasket. The head I had was milled so many times that it just wouldnt hold a seal anymore.

No, I was just wondering on the fab stuff.

The Sissell head should be here this week. We are going to run a Speedtech nitrous system 300 hp. Ditch the 2-4s for a single 750 dominator and sheet metal intake. As soon as the fabrication starts I will be updating the site pretty often. I have some cool stuff planed

So, How far along is your car?

Steven

My car has been on the back burner so long that I need to go through everything. For now, rear end, trans are good. I will upgrade the trans & change the rear end gear ratio later.As for the engine ,I am slowly gattering parts.I always have a few projects going @ the same time. Like house improvements & so on.
What CFM #'s is your cylinder head going to flow? Looks like a nice cyl head!
I am going to switch to EFI.
Hank

Yea, I know the home improvment thing all to well.
That head on my site is Mikes that he sawed up to see if the water jacket are in the right location. If you look real close it's sawed in half the full lenght. My brother has a CNC machine shop and he machined a bunch of intake and exhaust flanges for that head. Now, as far as flow we went pretty conservative on the port sizes. We can put bigger ports in it later if we need to. I think Mike told my brother 320cfm intake & 240 ehaust. We choose the smaller ports because we still want to drive it on the street a little. It should run 10.50-10.70 on motor and mid to low 9 on nitrous.

I think EFI & turbo are the way to go. We have a line of nitrous componets that we will showcase with this truck. Who knows we change our minds like the weather. In a couple years we could be going EFI Turbo racing.

Steven

BTW- what head are you going to use?

interesting....

what would you think about 355 cfm's on intake from a cast-iron head?
and 245 on exhaust side?-all this from a cast-iron head ? and head flows water?
and ports are raised?
Raising ports is key and ONLY way to get BIG flow numbers from these heads-MANY have done it -including myself....

and as far as a main girdle, what do you think about either using/adding 3 "blocks" to mains 5,6, and 7?...
0r a full Block girdle to block?
Know how much these blocks flex?
know what happens with a balncer on front and weight on end of crank does to main bearings 4 and 5?
mmmm, so what does happen at 8000-9000 rpms to block and crank?

Its amazing what many have done with these heads and blocks-yes cast heads and blocks....

Mighty, ask Mike Kirby what he knows about Chevy 250 drag racer in Va(where I am from), and what he knows about the high flow numbers I refer to....(from above)

Seems ONLY way to get big flow numbers in these heads is to RAISE ports- look at Mike Kirby's new aluminum head? Look at a PES fully modified head?

and yes, I bought that busted Kirby head to see what all the "Mystic" is about his procedure....
Well, I was NOT impressed at all- Seems I was laughed at here by Twisted 6 and GMdad for buying junk-seems you missed the point- I know PES technology, and have seen Kirby technology-which to you think works best?
Seems PES learned a LONG time ago to raise ports on these cast heads....

so here is what you do-use a cast head, raise port with CAST welding(if you are not familar with what can be done now with new technology on cast iron heads,blocks and cranks it may BENEFIT you)-and i mean RAISE ports!!!

But then again , I have been mistreated SO BADLY here from MANY -seems VERY few here have even built a engine with a Lump Port head- so what can you say?
I thought those that really want to know what is really going on out there would want to know...
I am not trying to bash ANYONE( as rules state) but I a have been BASHED a long time here

you dont have to like me-its OKKKKKK
but find out the truth about what can be done, what has been done and what is VERY amazing....
but then why take anything I have to say as helping....
so is this Post going to stay as is or be edited?

you should at least let many read it- if you want to question me go ahead, but start somewhere else 1st.....

I am running the same head,the intake ports are 1.8 inch instead of 1.7 for the street version.
My friends shop is going to finish the valve job & install the springs, but I need to get a camshaft first before the springs. I think Mike told me my head flows around 318cfm in. & 220 on the exhaust? That was with no back cuts on the valves.
I will have it flow tested @ my friends shop. Will be testing different angles for optimum flow & get back w/Mike on the results. Maybe have a little more porting done?
Hank

LeeLites ,
just have one question, how much would a head cost that flows 355in & 245ex. cost?

Lee- Your motor must run on air flow alone because thats the only thing you want to argue about. And yes I have talked to the guy in Va. It's like anything if you spend enough time and money anything can happen. I had a feeling you were lurking around here so I posted false flow # to pull you out of the shadows. I have not seen PES raised port head.

You get bashed because you produce claims of other peoples work with nothing to back it up!So were are the pictures of this drag truck that revs 9000 rpm? A you ashamed of it because it runs 13.00 or 14.00s in the 1/4?

You can sit here and argue flow # & crank twist or block flex. Pretty soon I'll be up and racing again while you still here argueing about this B.S.

And to be honest the lump head I have doesnt flow well at all but I must have done something right. It ran 11.30 et on motor alone and because I live in the real world my motor needs a carbauretor and ignition to make it run. You live in fantsy land were motors run on flow #s.

Steven

Lee Kirbys HEAD Goes WAY Back as Wll with the Very first ALum Head with The RAISED PORT and ALSO HAD a Twisted Combustion chamber. I also Know about the Guy Your talking about.And The amount Of work That has to go into a head like that Is NOT just for the everyday Person Or one who is on a small budget/Wallet.

But Not to worry your Post will stay, not as if you really said any.

And MIGHTY6 I still have to say SWEET Ride. an Thanks }[oooooo]

LeeLites!!!
I still have not gotten an answer on how much one of those 355 cfm in. & 245 cfm exhaust. I'm sure if the price was reasonable alot of people would buy them. Are you totaling a price & how many man hrs. to build one? Heck I'll buy one, if the price is cheap enough!
Thanks

Hank- The head lee is refering to is a one off that a guy built for NHRA or IHRA class racing. My brother talked to him a while back and the guy is retired with a machine shop and foundry in his back yard. His job is to be retired and build motors. He told us about all the crazy stuff he does. I will not give out any specs but in no form is this a budget build or street motor. Very minmal water pasages.

Steven

O, Lee made it sound like it was a stock cylinder head modified? Speaking of 13 & 14 second vehicles,
when my Camaro was normally aspirated yrs ago.It ran high 13's & It had a non lump port head ,boss removed bad flowing cylinder head w/10-1 comp. Those were the days :-)

hello...The head i am refering to is a Stock cast head modified that has water passages....
and Finally you got it Twisted!!!!!!!!

yes the Lump Port head is OLD stuff- get it now?
Twisted, you can go for all you new stuff and Bolt-In Plates, but PES did this years ago!!! why not work with whats there and forget the lump!!! its raising the Port and PES Intake AND exhaust plates do this!!!!! you will find out....

Mighty, good Luck....
Not ashamed of what I have- I feel lucky I have gathered info from MANY -not just 1 and have it built into my engine.... too bad you have a problem with me-only trying to share what is out there and works-and it is much different from direction you have taken.....

why do you Post false stuff- seems I get attacked when i post REAL stuff- you are too much!!!!!

maybe you want a street head- go ahead-I am not into this for a STREET Inline 6 engine-been doing that for over 20 years now....
as far as heavy modified head i am referring to-There is water that flows good in head ....if you have talked to the racer I am referring to you would know Exactly what I am talking about- you questioned PES and their head work and their manifold... you question me and my work....you question the racer I am referring to and hold on to 1 person- wow, in time you will find out....
So, if you want wild HP, try something .....
Without Nitrous.....

Hank as far as cost is concerned, give me time for I am in process of doing this head work myself...the racer I am referring to has done alot and is very amazed what i have shared with him on my research- raised ports huh?-wellll yes.....and single runners!!!!-and ALL from a modified cast iron stock head....but then again, what can i share that you dont already know?....

also Mighty, this is not a 1 off head-as you have posted.....this is 1 of the heads and this is best so far....Ever talk to Glenn Self on what he has done to these heads?
Its amazing....here again , i try to tell it like it is and all you want to do is question me....well in time it will all be there-seems the only 1's that respect me are the 1's that have been doing this for MANY more years than You Mighty and you Twisted but you attack me and well....
Mighty, I have NOT been lurking here..I came here recenlty to see how much MORE bad advice has been given out and when i read about what you said about not needing a girdle for mains that was enough to not let this wrong info be stated-It NEVER ends here...for those wanting performance, be VERY careful what you read here...I am sure there are those that are wary of what i say but its ok-I am just curious why the old timers respect me and the so called experts here question me? ....interesting huh?

Anybody talk to Rob harrison on phone and get to enjoy hearing all the great info he has learned with his aluminum chevy inline 6? he is a great guy and I enjoyed talking to him .....I wish him the best of luck and see he has ALOT of people helping him over the years.

Hank, contact me thru my email address and if you are interested in more- we can move forward together....what are you defining as a reasonable cost? i will say this type head work is not for many, but flow numbers turn into HP....thats basic physics......

I am not in this for just toying around- why not want as MUCH experience from MANY and have them help you? I am doing that... does that bother you I want to share info that either you dont know of yet or unwilling to accept because it doesnt "make sense"?

And another good topic to sit back and enjoy. I love reading these topics. Lee, I think the biggest hurdle for you to overcome is getting your theories verified by somebody else. You seem very knowledgeable in what you are doing and always have an answer with flow #'s etc. BUT when you are asked to prove it......well, thats another story. Twisted said he would flow one of your heads and if it is as good as you say it is, he would tell us. I didn't think that was asking too much as you are stating some big numbers and facts here but it is still only YOUR numbers and nothing has been verified as correct. But this is just my opinion for what it is worth.

Lee, I would to talk with you about these heads.
Could you email or phone me? Thanks Armond
rebelce@juno.com

Lee
I never said that what you say is not true. And There is different ways that the Ports Have raised.Some Cutting Out the Upper area (bolt Boss) getting into the water Jacket Then having It all reWelded and a New intake flange made.I also Have a Head Here That Crane Did Many yrs ago Where The Port has Been Raised Per say With Out Cutting into the water Jacket.(Beause the Upper part of the Port has Been removed Greatly very thin gasket area Now)But Nothing was done to the Port Floor. I know By adding PES Lump and Not Ramping it. AND USE their Intake Or Ramp the Intake Floor IS raiseing the Port.And I Photos I will post at a Later time Of that Crane Head and Of one I am doing myself Moving the top of the Port Up. And No body claimed to be a expert Other Then YOUR Tone.

So Like I told you over the Phone. If You send me Photos I'd Post Them. If You send Me a Head You wanted ME to check what You say It will Do I would also Back You Up on it and Post It was Well. And Your Not Showing anything Like MIGHTY said All Your doing is Talking. So so Far The only Thing you have Backed up(sent photos) Is for the Cranks.So Now Like I have said To you Before Lets Put it UP Or Just plain and Simply Shut Up So Now comes/Goes The next step It's Your Call.

Hank
We have a Guy here in fla with a 68 camaro Which Runs 11.8s No rasied Ports either But had a Mike Kirby Lump ported Head. Before That Same Setup ran Low Ball 12s knocking that 11. sec Door.

PS. Like a Few have said Lee IF? We Teamed Up?

I'm Sure We could Make One Killer Site.Like I said Before. And The offer Is Still Open.But like Most Doors they don't stay open for ever.

Thanks letting me now vent my unwanted 2cents Worth & opinion. Because I wasn't done with Either Head Yet.But Not having Photos Of these I wasn't about to step up and Open my Mouth. But also There are some Photos In the Power Book and Also Bow Tie Speed has worked with The Raised Ports They also Did a Angle Milling of the Head. SOME even USED Off set HEAD Pins. But anyway I'm sure Their ARE many Others Out there that maybe Could have been in the Book as well Like a man here in fla That did and still does do Off sets to the L6 Cranks along with sleeving the Blocks for a 4in bore I spoke with him many times And No thanks to the Hurricanes We had I no longer have is Number Which I had gotten from someone a few yrs ago. but anyway.Very Interesting stuff he also had to share.
Thanks }[oooooo]

Twisted, so your saying the 68 Camaro had a non lump port head & was running low 12's. Then he installed a lump port Kirby head then it ran 11.8's
Sounds like it really makes an improvement!
Hank

Lee , I would say a reasonable cost would be around $1000 for a stock cast iron head.
Sounds like you would need to make a different intake manifold for the raised intake ports.
I'm not really sold on the idea that cast iron welding is an easy task,seems most of the time it's too porious or it cracks, aluminum seems a much better material to deal with. What is your idea on how much it would cost?

Lee- After tossing this suject around all day I have can up with the conclusion.

You want- to rev a motor to 10,000 rpm and side step the clutch for the launch and puts a hell of a load on the crank and block. Rob H. car is the car I am refering to. $150,000 is not in my budget.

I like- stock chassis, stock suspension and 10.5 wide tires. Stock looking cars & trucks that just haul ass OUTLAW RACING. $30,000 ish is more like it!

YOU- Get your info from old timer and I respect that and them guys know a lot of stuff.

I- Get my info from current class champions and record holder/motor builders of outlaw cars.

You-Belive in makeing HP though cfm & rpm. Super light weight parts and highly altered blocks and heads that have minamal water passages and main gussets.

I-Belive in a super strong bottom end. A new aluninum head that is repairable. A stout power adder that produces tons power at lower rpm. Is streetable to use the term loosely

YOU-Belive that airflow=power

I-Belive that airflow is power also to a point. I have seen so many cars with improper carbs or igntions and wiring and stuff like that. These are full blown race cars. I helped a guy rewire his car and it went 3 tenths faster in the 1/8 HHUUUMMMM.

You- Belive that if you are not doing it the way the old guys are doing ITS WRONG!

I- Have had no lower crank failures doing it my way. I dont wish to gusset my bottom end because you think I should.

You claim so much bad advices is given but all your advice is the hard work of somebody else. Your advice is from guys that built all out comp. and super stock motors.

Your- version of a street motor is a truck with a camper.

MY- Version of a street motor is one that is driven for a class 10 miles to the track to see who has the badest high 8 low 9 second car or truck on 10" wide tires. Head lights, tail lights , turn signals the full deal.

So if you want somthing wild. Drive somthing that leaves the line on the back bumper with NO sissy sticks to hold you

After all this I still like you. Just dont tell me I'm doing it wrong because my s**t has stayed together for a long time .

Steven

BTW-You are lurking because you are not a inliners member. And a guest would have joined by now

BTW-2-The reason I put nitrous on my truck is because you cant build a N/A motor that would handle the 10 mile cruise. Then make the power for the weight break for the class running against 426 ci sbc and 557 ci bb fords.

Sorry for going off topic, I'm from Puerto Rico, there is no inliners chapter here. Should I become a member? How? Any fees? Do I get a T-shirt?

Luis

Luis

What you would Get is the 12News bi Monthly Which is 6 issues a year. Yes there is a yearly Fee for member ship.US Fee is 28.00 a yr. Canada & over sea's is 38.00 a year. If You Email Me I will find out which Would apply to You. And This Payment Would have to Be in USA FUNDS Made out to Inliners International. Not sure about a Tee shirt But I'm sure I could set you up with 1 or 2 NO V stickers?? And a Inliners sticker. But I can & will check into That Tee shirt. I may have a Older 2000 Tee shirt.

Thank You }[oooooo]

Hank
I will check to see If That Was The ONLY Change and I'll double Check The ET 12s I'm think it was like a 12.1/12.2??? I WILL Check to be 100% on the 12 sec Et's. And MPH }[oooooo]

I believe you need to modify the intake port w/ the lumps also raising the roof would help.
If you just raise the roof that will not make up for the lousy short 90 degree turn radius, that is where the lump port helps a lot is in the short turn radius flow, along with filling up the port volume. Need to bring up the port velocity.
Hank

Hank- I got my Kirby/Sissell head in today. I looks bada*s for a street head. Now if I could find a little more funding for some Jesel rocker stands.

Steven

Sweet Deal Steven/MIGHTY6
can I have your Old one hehehe:D lol Hey It doesn't hurt to try and ask LOL }[oooooo]

TWISTED- It's about time to have a garage sale or start Ebay some of this stuff.

Steven

MIGHTY6
very nice head isn't it!
If you are looking into getting shaft mounted rocker arms for that awesome head, could you pass down the info to me?
Thanks
Hank

Hank - Yes sir

Thanks,
I tried T&D, they said they can sell me the shafts & rocker arms, but I would have to make the stands. That is a little too difficult for me to fab. Maybe you can make them & sell them?
Hank

The Jesel stuff is great, I've got 1.6's and 1.7's for the Jeep. Trouble free since 1989. All I need to do is buy another set of stands and I'll have two sets.

How much are the stands, price on rocker arms also? also I need them for different rocker arm stud spacing. I think 1.92? Forgot the spacing, aftermarket head. .Do they make stands & shafts that are not drilled for mounting them? I would think they are hardened so it would be difficult to drill/machine?
Hank