Inliners International Forums General Discussion Body & Paint self etching primer

I sanded my fender to bare metal and sprayed it from a spray can. It is a self etching type and green in color. I put it on hopeing it will resist rust more than the high build red type. Am I right?

it should yes It will also Help when your ready to paint it later down the road.BUT most can Spray paint wants to lift When you try to spary it with Real Paint Not the spray can stuff. So you have to watch out.

Hopefully the green color means it has Zinc Chromate (or some other corrosion inhibitor in it). Was it an Aircraft type, store brand generic, or somewhere in between? Most companies of any size have web pages now. The brand on the can might be able to tell you better what it can and can't be expected to do (if they have any information availble). X2 on the be carefull what you paint over it with.

The green self etching paint in a rattle can is more than likely from companies like pro-form, etc. It is used for doing small spot jobs. The older stuff seemed to be better as the stuff lately is very sensitive to 2K primers urethanes etc. It will wipe off with laquer thinners quit easily. Not a good thing. When you are ready to paint I would take it off and put on a good epoxy primer or a good 2K self etching primer that is a DTM primer. I would not leave the non activated rattle can stuff on if I want it to last. JMO of course.

Does paint go bad over time? I have an unopened gallon of Zinc Chromate primer that has been aging in the "paint cellar" since about 1980. Some day I think I will have an aluminum project to use it on. If it's not good I am sure I will need to take it to the county Toxic site.

It may still be ok. If sealed and temps have been fairly consistant it could be just fine. It's more the activator that will go bad on ya. Just flip it over once in a while.

The self-etching primer is "Dupli-Color" and has an olive colored cap- the color it dries to. It says on the can,"Maximum adhesion and corrosion resistance and the first step in priming. Ideal for bare metal", etc. No limitations of what can go on top of it are stated nor is there any list of ingredients like Zinc Chromate. It was easy to use and dries quickly, in fact it says it can be topcoated after only 30 minutes. It covers 20-25 sq.ft.so one, I guess, could almost do a fender. I plan to paint in the spring and hope it would last til then with no surface rust or other problems showing up. And I would like to go over this with fillers and such to remove dings and dents. I guess then i would have to prime all of that in prep for top coat?

Tim it's the same stuff I'm familiar with. For a spot collision it ok. For something you want to last no way. Here's a good rule of thumb to use for a restoration or something you want to last. If its a one part product, eg;Rattle can, Laquer you stay away from it. Or if you can wipe it off with thinners, you stay away from it. If it was me I would forget about the rattlecan stuff and get yourself a quart kit of epoxy primer. Clean the metal real good and scuff with 80 grit and lay on 2 wet coats. Do your filler work over that and then a couple of wet coats of epoxy to seal it up. Then you are good to go. When it is time to paint or put some high build primer on then just scuff the epoxy and lay one more coat of epoxy on. Then you are good to go. This will give you the best job possible. No movement or swelling and sealed from the elements the best way possible. If you want to PM me I'll give you a site you can look at and get some info on products to use. It is in the States and it's the best on the market at non-inflated prices.

Thanks JMoran, I appreciate your guidance.I went to the Dupli-Color web site and it was worthless as far as help goes and which product is best.It does seem the epoxy primers are the most protective from rust, but don't they require sanding to give tooth for fillers that are added on top which is what I will be doing?
I went to the PPG store and they can formulate my color,a light solid yellow, after using their special camera. Their price is about $40 for 1/2 pint,(8oz.)plus reducer and hardener. Total is about $100. Then my compressor is a 20gal. unit I used for roofing and running nailguns. They suggested a small hvlp gun. I forget the brand.
It would be nice to do it myself and maybe a section at a time.

check out squeegskustoms@yahoo.com.they have direct to metal epoxy primer.you do your bodywork afetr you do your sealer/filler.prep with at least 120 grit sandpaper.this is great stuff.

Thanks Speeddemon, I'll check it out

Thanks Speeddemon, I'll check it out

53..while you are at it check out www.southernpolyurethanes.com . Their products are top of the line and their prices are not over inflated by any means. And customer service is second to none. On their home page you can click on the SPI forum and there you can do a search on anything related to body & paint. A great bunch of highly talented guys on there.

John, I have been looking through the site you have listed and it is very good for me, a novice. The Waterborne Wax and Grease Cleaner sounds like a very correct product to use to clean the metal. Is "SPI" the right place to buy this product or can a local paint supply store supply it as well and at a comparable price considering the taxes and shipping?

Tim there are jobbers in Ohio but I don't know where. If not you would order from Baker PBE in Georgia. They are the distributor for SPI. Another bunch of great guys. Call SPI and they will let you know if you have a jobber close by. Here's Barry's cell # 404-307-9740. Barry is the owner of SPI and if you have any other questions feel free to ask him. After talking to him for a min. you will think you have known him for years.You won't go wrong using their products. They are one of the best out there and the price makes them even better. Their epoxy is the best on the market IMHO. Let me know how you make out.

John

have not found a jobber in Oh. yet. If I treat rusted lower panels or frame parts with a rust inhibiter like Zinc Phosphate how can I paint then with Epoxy? Isn't that a bit of a "catch 22".

If these are slightly rusted or pitted panel i would use naval jelly and steel wool. Rinse off good and hit with 80 grit sandpaper. You don't want to put epoxy over anything but clean dry metal sanded with 80 to 120. 80 preferable. If you have a couple pics email me @ aero46chevy@msn.com . I can give you a better Idea if I could see what you are dealing with.

John

The lower panel areas that have rust are at the bottom of the front fender support panels between the radiator and front fender. It is only in the area where they were bolted and touching the front splash pan. I believe these areas can be sanded to clean metal or at least very close. I will use the navel jelly as you suggest.
The other area is the rusty and rough frame and suspension componets and I suppose most areas under the car. Sanding here will remove the loose rust and grime but the deeper pits would have to be ground out and I couldn't do that.
Another area is the brake drums.

Tim

Can I paint Epoxy primer over Zinc Phosphate?

No it is not recommended. Sand with 80 - 120 grit and clean well with waterbourne wax and grease remover. Make sure it is dry and then shoot the epoxy. If you do run into a bit of flash rust just take it off with red scotchbrite and clean and shoot.

Thanks John, I will use epoxy only on clean dry metal after any rusted areas have been treated with navel jelly and rinsed and cleaned and dryed.
However,on the back of the car around the gas tank on the trunk floor and on the frame, I painted all of it with a rust inhibitor. I used a couple of different types. Phosphoric Acid and Zinc Phosphate(Bill Hirsch "Miracle Rust Remover and Metal Prep").The other contains Phosperic Acid and Potassium Dichlomate,(Jasco"Prep and Primer"). Jasco says to paint with undercoat primer and paint.
I'm guessing that black enamel paint will be ok to use after applying the undercoat primer. The Jasco does not say what kind of primer but I don't think the self etching should be used.

I would call and see what they recommend. I have just scotchbrite the P.A & Z.P and shot epoxy over it and it seems to hold out real good so far. Maybe not the best posible but better then an enamel primer by a long shot.

Thanks John, I will go ahead and paint the areas that I have already covered with the phosphates and use the epoxy for all of it after a bit of scuffing with a scotchbrite pad or sandpaper. What would you use on new wheels that are factory primed? I don't think I want to use the powder coat as it seems too difficult and I have heard that if it chips the moisture gets under the surface and rusts it.

Tim
Contact Performance Paint on webster street just north of needmore rd on the west side of street. They can and will help you with anything you need. They help with more do it yourself projects than anyone in the area that I know of.

Hi Bill, Hey, It's nice to hear from you again! Thanks for that location on Webster St. I'll check them out. The other place I found is the PPG store on the western side of Springfield which is not too far for me here in New Carlisle. I'm such a novice at this that I don't even have a spray gun yet but I do have a 20gal. 2 1/2hp compressor, so I will search for the right hvlp gun and some of the right stuff like an in line dryer and go from there. John has guided me to SPI company who supply epoxy and cleaner at good prices. Do you know if that brand can be purchased locally? I can always have them ship it.