Inliners International Forums General Discussion Truck Talk update - 1970 c-10 w/ 292ci

Here is an update regarding where I am with my truck.

Last weekend I was able to pickup a rebuilt 292 for $700. It looks good - here are a couple of pictures.




I bought an offy and a 390cfm holley for it.

I am ready to pull out the old engine and put in the new one.

I need to make some decisions about what to buy next. Over the next couple of weeks, I can spend about $800, then more around Nov 1st.

(1) cam should be done now since I have the engine out,right?

(2) should i get new valve springs if i step up the cam - how much would they cost?

(3)what kind of gains could I expect from changing the cam, changing out the springs, bigger carb, and dual exhaust?

What are your thoughts regarding suspension? I would like a 2/4 drop, so that the truck is level and relatively low. I assume that most of the kits they sell are for V8s.
(4)Any idea how much higher the front end will be with the 292? also, should I just go with the bare minimum right now, so that I can some of the other stuff. eventually I would like to add: Front and rear coils, front and rear sway bars, adjustable trac bar and front and rear shocks
(6)Should I just go with shocks and coils to start off, then add the other stuff later?

I broke off one of the bolts when removing the pipe, but I could probably figure something out to get me by for a while, if I should go with the suspension stuff first.
Here is the exhaust stuff I am looking at:
stovebolt headers
clifford headers clifford x pipe

(7)Which setup would you recommend, - just stovebolt, clifford headers & x pipe, clifford x and stovebolt, etc?

When I started pulling things apart this weekend, I noticed that I am missing a few fasteners - ie the tranny and motor only had 4 bolts holding them together. (8)How does this look as a solution? http://www.stoveboltengineco.com/acartpro/product.asp?productid=143

(9) list of importance/buying order for the above items?

You'll have to make the header decision after the engine is in the vehicle, as you want the ones that will fit the best. Forget the "X pipe" and run the exhaust through 28-30" (straight through) mufflers.

You should get the springs with the cam. Some MFG sell a 'cam kit' that has everything etc.

Decide all the rest later as well.

Good luck.

any specific 'straight throughs' you'd suggest (links maybe)?

I am thinking about buying an engine stand - any recommendations about where to get one/brands (ie seen some bad feed back about harbor freight)?

You may wanna check into hooker aerochamber mufflers, they actually flow real well, if not better as compared to other mufflers, not too expensive either.

If you wanna deepen your exhaust note, you should consider an H pipe. If you want to gain noticable power from idle to whereever over dual pipes alone, you may wanna consider an addition of an X pipe (I tried this, it quietened the tone big time, and brought back noticeable power)

Most people think glasspacks flow wonderfully due to the straight thru design, thats not entirely true, once you take into account the louvers inside and how they disrupt flow.

I added a few soundclips in the bench racing section, titled "more I-6 videos", should give you and idea of what to expect.

Sears has a 1000/1200# one that will work fine and staying away from Harbor Frieght is a good idea.

Any muffler will work as good as another, new or used. Look on e-bay and get a deal. When you assemble the system have the Muffler Shop run the pipes 'side by side' unconnected to the mufflers. After that you can put the tail pipes anywhere you like.

Take your time , get a good deal.

recommended sizes for the pipes?

Usually with a stock to mild engine, of roughly 300ci, looking to run duals, 2" will get it done. Don't be afraid to run a single pipe, you'll save money by not buying an additional muffler and save weight, more than likely spend less having the ehaust hung and welded. A single 2.5"-3" is commonly used on an engine of around 300ci.

I have to disagree with John H, all mufflers are not created equal. Whether you choose a bullet style, pancake, louvered, glasspack or chambered, they each have their own exhaust tone and some move air better than others.

What I consider to sound good may sound like crap to you, with that said, good luck.

You want each of the 'head pipes' 2". The 'tail pipes' can be 1 1/2".

Running headers into a single pipe defeats the purpose, so stay with the duals (unconnected) as planned.

Mufflers are everywhere, so just "shop around". There's plenty of time.

I have no idea where you come up with this stuff.

Running headers into a single pipe (larger than stock) does not defeat any "purpose".

You may wanna do a little research into the effects of a crossover pipe....especially how it affects the tone of an exhaust....we done some readin' back at the hobby shop....maybe you should too.

how does an x-pipe work? I know that it decrease back pressure, but how?

The addition of an X or H pipe has more of an effect on a V-8 configuration, performance wise but it helps the inlines. It will cut the acceleration and cruise decibals down big time (took my cruise exhaust sound back to stock), as compared to a simillar exhaust without the X pipe (or H), definitely make it more mellow/deeper. I would use an X or H pipe as an aid to achieve a certian tone with the inline, than for a performance purpose.

Not suggesting you add an X or H pipe but thought I would mention this.

As with anything there is an ideal placement for the X/H pipe, ideally you would attach it at the hottest point of the pipe(s). Whats happening is the heat differences from one pipe as opposed to the other, causes a pressure drop, which in effect sucks the exhaust out of the oppossing side and vice versa. (ever crack a window/door in your house with the a/c on and the outside temp being extremely hot? simillar effect)

If you cannot measure the temperature of the pipe, you can put a strip of paint on the pipe(s), keep checking it, the point that burns off first indicates the hottest point and a good place to put the X/H pipe.

I just placed mine were it was the easiest to get too, my intent was to knock the buzz out of my six's exhaust tone, the improved performance was a happy suprise.


In all honesty, if I hadn't already ran the duals, looking back and knowing what I know now, I woulda went with a single 3" to a single in/dual out muffler.

If your looking for that screaming six glasspack rasp, do not install a crossover pipe and definitly go duals.


Do you have any pictures of your truck, sounds like an interesting project, good deal on the engine as well?

not much in terms of pictures yet - needs a ton of bodywork.

this is what i've got:
http://lyndonjscott.com/freelancejobs/pickup/c-10_engine/

may have overpaid for the truck($2500), but didn't realize I'd be replacing the engine at the time - I really wanted the shortbed. I plan on taking a few more pictures before I really strart ripping it apart. I'll post a link here.

It's called "experience", Mr. (no name) hobbyshoper. You may criticize when/after you have some.

"Crossover", "H-pipe", "X-pipe" or Y & Z are of NO VALUE on an inline engine using headers because, they defeat the purpose as stated.

They are rarely used on Race Tracks/Drag Strips. In 'commercial service' they don't work either, due to maintaince issues.

The single exhaust pipe/muffler comes stock from GM. Running headers into one pipe is even more absurd.

You are simply a victim of believing your own "technobabble".

Prove me wrong, get technical all you like. Then when I go outside, start my truck and it reflects what I have said, lets see what I believe.

I HAVE done this to the inline engine and it DOES make a different to the final tone of the exhaust. If you had this so called experience, you wouldn't continue to disput this...its ridiculous.

How many people do you know run a full exhaust on a dragstrip/race vehicle...jeez...how about comparing apples to apples...dig deeper it makes you sound smarter...

Headers, single or dual, into a larger than stock single exhaust makes perfect sense. Would you please explain this "purpose" that is being defeated and why this isn't true, school me? Also enlighten me on this maintenance issue. This should be real interesting...


ChevyII

Looked over the pix, looks good.

I don't have to, you did that for me/us.

What your car sounds like is irelevant. The kid just wanted a 'straight answer' to a simple question.

If your happy with your 'tone' fine.

Try answering next time vs telling someone what they want...jeez.

Never suggested he mimic my setup, tried to gather what he was after and help him get there...offered options along the way...

Pretty simple dude, I asked you to back up what your saying, we both knew that wasn't possible...

ABout the only thing I seen was a sound differnece when I had a Y pipe On mine But I liked the Duals Much better and Like the dual looks out the back. As for the Over all STREET performance I realy didn't see any difference There. I had a 2 1/2 collector Y to a 3in single. Duals were 2 1/2s to a 2 1/2in turbo Mufflers with a 2in out let with turn downs just before the rear axle.

The Y should be bigger On the Out going side to keep the same flow as Being a dual. If it is the same size as the Incoming It would make more back pressure and be less effective then the duals themself. And down size after the muffler to keep the Heat. (As the exhaust cools It also becomes slower) This is something I once heard How true it is I have No Clue.

So the Question(could be?) is do you want to spend the Bucks For 2 of each Or just one. thats is up to you.

Gentlemen:
We are trying to help someone asking questions, lets not get off the subject and
take on personal licks.

Any muffler will work as good as another, new or used.
I have to disagree with John H, all mufflers are not
created equal. Whether you choose a bullet style, pancake, louvered, glasspack
or chambered, they each have their own exhaust tone and some move air better
than others. Please re-read the two statements.
John's statement did not say created equal, but will work as well.
Inline--yes, each has their own tone and air movement.

On a non-race engine on the street, I do not think it will make that much difference in which you choose.
It depends on the sound you want if sound makes a difference to you.

For most Inliners, I think the sound is it, otherwise we would probably use V-thingie for ease of use and parts available. I did not say ALL.

Running headers into one pipe depends on the size of single pipe.

Suggest re-read postings with an open thought to see how they sound to someone asking the question.

any thoughts regarding suspension?

I am fairly content walt.

Twisted6 confirmed what I was saying:

ABout the only thing I seen was a sound differnece when I had a Y pipe On mine But I liked the Duals Much better and Like the dual looks out the back. As for the Over all STREET performance I realy didn't see any difference There.

Then you:

Running headers into one pipe depends on the size of single pipe.


I saw the comment any muffler will work as being a blanket statement, also followed with do not use a crossover pipe, which made no sense. ChevyII gets his exhaust done, then comes back here complaining because he picked a random muffler (they all work right?) and his truck sounds like crap, then IMO that wouldn't be good.


I just operate a hobby shop...right?


ChevyII

Sorry, I have no input on suspensions. I have been considering an air bag suspension for my ol truck one day, look of a truck and the ride of a caddy. Just too darn expensive...good luck

From your picture of the truck, it looks like someone has already dropped it. Generally on the 69-72s the best way to go is with dropped spindles in the front and lowering blocks in the rear. A 292 weighs more than a sbc. If you need to replace the front springs, go with big block springs and then cut them if it sits too high. If you are doing the front end work, it might be a good time to put disc brakes off a 72 on it and convert to 5 lugs

the truck sits low b/c someone torched the coils - which means it rides likecrap. it hops like a jackrabbit on the freeway.

i will be converting over to 5 lugs - i just need some time(i got a bit of a 'cash flow' problem)

someone told me a 292 weights about 450 and an sbc is about 575. does anyone have exact numbers on this?

For suspension,
I think you are saying you have coils front and rear.
Being someone torched them, you need to replace all.
For the rear, you can get shorter coils or air bags.
For the front, you can use dropped spindles, shorter coils or air bags.

Remember this with air bags, you have correct driving height that needs setting each time after lowering sitting still.
Reason being for the front alignment to be correct.
Also, use stop blocks at point, air bag mfg., suggests.

As Always,

Another way would be to install a set of used front springs (from a 'salvage yard') & see how you like the truck stock, with the 292 engine.

Then make the 'upgrade decisions' later, if needed.

Don't put to much on your plate.

BTW: Using the exhaust system I suggested is a "tried & true" method that began in the 1950s. It doesn't need/require proof from/for anyone as it is 'standard' in the industry.

Many of these 'exhaust acessories' you see in Hot Rod catalogs and hobby shops are just there as a marketing ploy to generate revenue(s). They do little, if anything in the 'real world'.

I dug around but couldn't find any specs on a 292, I did however find some specs on a 250, maybe someone knows the difference in weight as far as rotating mass, the blocks/ head are the same(?). What I found quoted the 250 @ 440 lbs and a 350 with iron heads @ 570lbs. So what you were told seems close...not being a chevy guy...you take that for what its worth.


Please do me a favor, define the accessory you speak of and please define what you feel it doesn't do. Also include examples of when you tried this and the results.

I want to read about YOUR experiences and better understand you. Obviously, what I have tried and the results, while 'inline' with the rest of the world, don't seem to reflect your experience, possibly we approached things differently and received a different result, provide me with details and maybe I can better understand what it was, I and the rest of the world have done differently. Patiently waiting...

I think I'll go with the stovebolt headers and go straight back for now. it is is too loud, I may add the x pipe later b/c sound was definitely a problem when i had the truck running.


a friend from the hotrodders forum sent me a scanned pdf from the OCT 77 issue:

buick/chevy/olds/pontiac 6 (194,230,250) 410lbs. the block on the 292 1.75" taller right? I wonder how much of a difference that makes.

chevy v8 (262-265-283-302-305-307-327-350-400) 575lbs

Cool, hope you get the sound your after. I will admit, I liked my duals before the X pipe addition but getting older..haha..I like things a little quieter now.


Probably right, when it comes to chevy info, take mine with a grain of salt.

edit. I double checked, seems the 230/250 had a shorter deck height than the 292, your info is correct.

That's the way to go.

If you think It's to loud, simply use longer mufflers or move them further to the rear.

The test here is what it sounds like in the cab at full throttle going on the freeway and not what someone thinks standing at the rear, reving up in the parking lot etc.

Headers make noise (It's what they do) and you will have to drive acordingly 'in town'.

By welding 2 1/4" inlet pipes to the mufflers and sliding them over the 2" head pipes/clamping makes this 'adjustment(s)' easy and cheap. On a P/U you can place them (mufflers) further to the rear than on a passenger car. Then make your tail pipes.

If this all sounds like "Too much effort" then don't get headers. Run a stock (292 truck) manifold/head pipe into a 'straight through' single muffler, then into a larger tail pipe.

You can't have it both ways.

Good luck.

Well, for the record, I am not talking about in cab noise/sound, overall.

Obviously you don't want the muffler under the cab...I think we can agree there.

However, when it comes to tail pipe noise. You can move the mufflers until you have them hanging off the end of the bumper, and depending on the muffler it will be loud outside, install an X pipe and poof, quieter. Added bonus, the in cab sound, quieter as well.

YOu can run headers with dual pipes and dual mufflers with an X pipe and get a super quiet acceleration and cruise tone....you can have it both ways....

one of my roommates spend a big gob of cash on headers and getting dual exhaust straight out the back on his truck. it sounded really cool at first, but eventually he got tired of it being so lound and went back to the stock setup.

Was it a v-8? What did he do for an exhaust. I am slowly learning that if done right, a single exhaust can sound real nice, yet not be obnoxious.

The last one I did was a 5.3, put a flowmaster 50 delta flow in place of the stock muffler, left the cat on. It idles just a little louder than stock and cruise is just a hair above stock but once you rev or accelerate, it sounds just like a muscle car, very deep tone, very nice. Not at all metallic like I would have expected from a non delta flow flowmaster. Of course they come with a 3" pipe stock so, its not all that bad.

My brother just put a single delta flow 50 on a 4.3 six banger, removed the cat. Suprisingly the idle is definitely louder than stock but the cruise and acceleration are right where a person would want it if they were looking for noticable but not earth shattering.

i *think* the truck is a 93 ext cab w/ 350. he went back to single exhaust and it came out right behind the rear wheel i believe. i don't really remember the details - it was about 6 years ago now. It sounded nice with the single - wasn't obnoxious at idle or cruise, but you could tell when he stepped on it.

I don't know what he is running now - i do know that he installed a whipple super charger.

The orginal question mentioned nothing about noise or 'tone'.

This you invented to start an arguement. I have answered YOUR questions three times now and It's still "over your head".

Our BB is not a school. Myself and others give assistance/advice here as a professional courtesy only.

I suggest you attend a couple of semesters in Jr. College Auto Shop and learn how an engine functions etc.

Perhaps then, you will understand what I am saying.

Well dude about all you've done is insult me like a child...hobby shop this, hobby shop that.


As the post progressed, the tone was a concern.


When you talk exhaust, people don't wanna know what you like, they have an idea of what sounds good, individually. This is why I suggested how a crossover affects the tone of a dual setup. This is why I suggested different setups, in hopes of the original poster having the ability to get an idea of which direction he would like to go.


Your animate, crossover pipes do nothing to the tone or performance.


I ask, how so? You have no answer. Your silence demonstrates your ignorance to the topic, it does not reflect your knowledge as you hope.


I tell you what, meet me at the jr. college and I will introduce you to a little thing called exhaust theory, then take you for a ride in my truck thats quiet, yet has true dual exhaust with headers.


I only asked you to expand on your thinking, pertaining to crossovers because your convinced, they do nothing, I ask, how so? Your inability to answer, again, is not my trying to start a conflict, you can just say, I don't know. Its easy.

I'm gonna pull the plug if we DO NOT stay with the subject at hand.
Go back to original post and read it again to see what is being asked.
Grow up.

Make suggestions but NO personal licks!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone has opinions, it is up to the person asking questions to do with them as he pleases.

LET'S FORGET X PIPES.
He did not ask for them to begin with.

Noise came along after personal licks started.

One more on this site and the plug will be pulled.

Walt, he asked about using and X pipe in the original post.

I would have never brought it up if he hadn't, John H told him to forget about it, I wanted to know why, having experience with them I know they ARE beneficial.

I will let it go, removing subscription to this thread now.

@#(@*#(*@#(@(#@(#(*&(*

I just screwed up





I went and bought a stand last night and put it together. tonight, i went to get some bolts to attach the engine to the stand. i brought one of the bolts that connected the engine to the tranny with me as a reference. The guy gave the bolts in the picture to use, as well as the nuts. i tried the nuts on the old bolt and they worked. when i got home, i was able to start the new bolts by hand. i got three of the four on so that they were flush with the engine and ready to put on nuts. I was tightening the 4th one when this happened.

why did this happen and how bad of a screw up is it?


I am worried about the other three that i was able to tighten. I wonder if those are cracked too (i didn't see anything).

I overlooked the x-pipe when I posted.

One recommeded no x-pipe.
One recommended x-pipe.

Now, It is up to chevyII to decide what he wants.

I have to say personally I DO NOT like x-pipes.
I prefer true duals, glass pack mufflers
(Yes, I know they do not flow like other mufflers, but it is my choice of sound and No I am not a young one, I do have different colored hair now) and tail pipes (no 3" size either).

Sound also is changed by location of mufflers, size, length and shape of tail pipes.
I have played with that many times to get what I wanted.

It has been said by the media on their tests that x-pipes or h-pipes help on V-8's to offset the impulses and get a little more HP and torque.

Tests were not on Inlines, so not sure if we would see same results.

http://www.automedia.com/Exhaust/X-Pipes/pht20011101xp/1


Lets move on and all have a great time on here.
We do not come on here to have conflicts.

Thanks,