Inliners International Forums General Discussion Tech Tips suggestions on a welder for my garage?

I got rid of my trusty 250A buzz box ("stick") long ago, thinking on a acquiring a fancier machine shortly but that hasn't yet happened. But what is a man without a welder?? I was wondering if you guys have opinions about the best welder machine for an advanced hobbyist, opinions on things like TIG vs, MIG processes, brands (Lincoln Electric, Miller, Esab, Hobart, "Harbor Freight", etc...), etc...

My current and future projects include:
- Making exhaust headers (mild steel), possibly zoomies
- Some tube chassis re-work (mild steel)
- Fabricating aluminum intake manifold
- Possibly building a kind of light-duty flat-bed trailer for the dragster
- Fixing and fabricating things around the garage

PS.: I have 120 and 220 V in the garage.

Any input is very appreciated, thanks in advance!

Every welding method has its own advantages and disadvantages. I have a Miller 175 MIG and I love it. I run it only with solid wire and argon mix gas. Currently it is now sold as the 180 I think because Lincoln has a competitive machine and it is a 180 job. Right now in my area the Miller 180 with a cart and full bottle of argon is just under $1000.00. When I bought the 175 I didn't even consider a 120 volt machine or flux cored wire even though I could have saved a fair amount of money.

I also have a Lincoln 225 AC stick machine that I've owned since 1970. 7018 AC rod gives a good finish but not anything like a MIG or TIG and I often use it where I don't want any question as to the penetration and overall strength of the weld. Think about it for a moment. When was the last time you saw a ship being built with MIG or TIG. Like I said. They all have their uses. You know best what your welding skills and budget can handle.

One of the better brochures I have seen that explains all of the welding processes and skills needed for each is put out by Miller Electric in their 2007 catalog which is free at your local welding supply. It can help you decide on both the machine and the process.

I agree with Mike G about the Miller 175 MIG. It is great for everything that I have needed - exhaust tubing, mild steel plate, etc. I have not tried aluminum. My friends with homebuilt aircraft operations claim that TIG should be used for aluminum. However, they work with thinner stock than that which Ricardo would use for an intake manifold.

What do others use for aluminum?

Tig or a Mig roll/Spool gun TO hard to Push ALUM mig wire though a Lead to Gun.

Roc,

Like Mike said, each system has it's good points.

I use my old Forney stick welder for anything like framework, welding up four-bar suspension to rear ends and most stuff over 3/16". I'm confident in the strength of the welds and have learned over the last 50 years, to lay a pretty nice bead.

I find it difficult to weld a nice bead overhead, with a MIG welder, but find it indispensible for welding body panels, floorboards, etc, using solid wire and Argon/mix. I usually use MIG for most things up to 3/16ths inch. When I'm outside and there's the least bit of wind, I'll use flux-core wire...but it splatters like stick welding does.

Welding headers, etc, I still like acetylene/ oxygen welding....for me it's still the easiest to control. Of course, unless you have a plasma cutter, slicing through steel is fast with acetylene.

I've done some TIG welding and find it the easiest to lay a pretty, even, bead. Aluminum and stainless welds are beautiful and easy with TIG, too. TIGs are expensive for good one, though. Again, it's difficult to weld overhead with one.

As soon as I hit the lottery, I'm gonna get me a TIG welder, though, just to round out my welding abilities!

Dennis,

Check with your local welding supply for different MIG wires. There are some that are listed as All Position and run pretty well on overhead work. Whenever possible I will rotate the work so I can weld downwards on the flat or at worst vertical but sometimes there is no way to avoid an overhead weld and the All Position will handle it.

Dear Ricardo;

Mike's right, check the Miller (220V) one at the welding supply in your area.

The Body & Muffler shops love them.

There's a 110V one but the extra $ for the commercial unit is worth it, I'm told.

Good luck.

Mike, Hoyt, Larry, Dennis and John, you guys are just great! Thank you so much for the detailed responses.

So... am I learning that, brandname wise, Miller is superior than Lincoln Electric??

I've also read good things about the Hobart Handler® 187, being even better than MM 180 (and I read this at the Miller user's forum). Is it true that Miller and Hobart are the same product? Anybody using Hobart?

References:
Miller: MIG Millermatic® 180, base model starts at US$ 958.00
Lincoln Electric: Power MIG® 180T, base model starts at US$ 824.00
Hobart Welders: MIG Handler® 187, base model starts at US$ 820.00

Anybody else?

See which one has the better guarantee/service Dept., I guess. I'm not a Welder.

Good luck.

Miller and Hobart seem to share some common ties. As to whether or not they are all the same I don't know for sure.

$958 sounds a bit high for the Miller 180. When I was at the local supplier last week for some wire they had a tag on the basic 180 for $833. That of course did not include the cart or the argon bottle. Even if they are including the cart that is only another $50. If it includes the cart and the argon then the price is right. You might want to check a few other places no matter what one you have settled on.

At the same place the base Lincoln 180 was $795.

i have the hobart handler 220v, i like it. i have bought all my welders used. the hobart i got for less than $350. i had to buy a few pieces -less than $20. i had to get the parts from miller and they even faxed me a manual and parts guide which was worth the 20 by itself. argon/co2 is also the way to go for mild steel i think, i don't care for the flux wire. you can also trade in bottles for welding bottles, i have never bought a new bottle. the last truck i bought had a soda co2 bottle in the bed and i took it in and they gave me a full argon/ co2 bottle and some cash back!!! you can also get them at auctions and trade them in for what you need. i have over 10 bottles and i always buy them if they are cheap enough. if you take several emptys in at once you only pay one haz material fee, that saves $$$ too. i have a tig setup i added on to my industrial hobart arc welder. i like it for mild steel again but i have not been able to do any good aluminum welding. i have only tried a few times and it looked pretty bad. i will give it more practice one of these days. i wouldn't touch that harbor freight mig with a 10' pole unless it was gave to me. then of course why not.

Mike...thanks for the advice!

The best MIG welder I ever used was a DAYTONA. You see 'em advertised in Hot Rod Magazine sometimes. I think they were made in Italy and one feature I really liked was, the wire was not hot until you pulled the trigger to weld.

I bought it from an old wino, cheap. When I was down to a car show in Daytona, I took it by their shop and they rebuilt it for me in ONE day! I let my brother in law borrow it and he left it on the tailgate of his pickup. Somewhere on the interstate it came off, never to be seen again! He says he's gonna pay me for it....in fact, he's been saying it for 5 years, now!

Don't get me started!

Dennis, I've hear some good things about the Daytona too although it seemed to be focused on one particular model. Must be the one you had.
Both the Miller and Lincoln have a cold torch like you mention. It doesn't spark up until you pull the trigger. They also trip if the wire gets stuck in the tip and self reset after you clear it. After decades of stick welding I thought this was wonderful!!!!

Fortunately all my brothers in law are nerds and geeks so they never ask to borrow any tools.

I have (in the family) a Lincoln 250 Round top, an Oxyacetylene setup (and a Hen-rob now), one of the little Lincoln Flux core Costco specials, and a Daytona Mig 181C. I like the Daytona Best for General use. It's biggest problem is getting the wire feed adjusted down, but it was a floor demo model and I think the local dealer may have replaced the rheostat for that with the wrong one.

I would buy a mig for anything you listed with the exception of aluminum. I have done aluminum with the Daytona and my best welds are UGLY. I had the use of a tig on one job and it was fairly easy to get a decent looking weld with it. The other gripe I have is if you weld aluminum with a mig you have to get a plastic liner for your mig gun / lead. That's not that big a deal but as the Daytona is a normal mig (pushes the wire through the lead) you are limited to about a 6 foot lead. That may sound like a lot, but it's a pretty short 'leash.' Even at that the soft aluminum wire will "birds nest" in the drive at the slightest excuse.

Don't misunderstand I know there is a boat shop around here somewhere building aluminum skiffs with a mig welder and their welds look fine. I just don't know what they are using.

any Lincoln welder i have had all had a plastic liner. But anyway If you going to mig weld alum. You really should have a spool gun. Most all other mig welders The Leads are to LONG and this is the issue because it is hard to PUSH alum wire that far.Esp.if the Lead is not 100% straight,even if you tip angle the gun(to far) It can cause the wire to get stuck.
So If you really want to weld Alum, Either Spool
it OR Tig it.These will give you the Best Looking and much stronger Welds.

We have the Panasonic 261. Very nice welder and well built. 300 amp Tweco 15 foot lead. Copper core transformer; most others are aluminum. Can be setup for a spool gun. It also does DC stick (could also do scratch start TIG but you won't have the foot control). Including the tank, it was $2100.

Like Dennis I have an old Forney Stick welder that nothing is too big for.
For a Mig I will either go with a Hobart or a Miller as the local welding supply sells and services Millers. All wire feeds are going to need parts and service if you use them much. I for one don't want to have to box one up and ship it off to the far corner of the country for service or wait for weeks for simple parts.

well,
i just saw this post & figured i'd throw in my 2 cents. i've worked in welding fab shops for over 20 yrs. & have many certifications, mostly with mig but some tig & stick too.
1st of all forget the flux cored wire it is not suitable for automotive use. all of the slag doesn't "boil" up out of the weld so you have alot of slag entrapment & the weld is brittle & prone to cracking on something that flexes like a car body or chassis. 75% argon 25% co2 with er70s-6 wire (most common for mild steel) is best. you can also weld stainless with this gas but you'll have alot of splatter. your gas supplier can rent you something more suitable for stainless on a temporary basis. straight argon is used for aluminum.
good service will be had from all 3 of the big names ( lincoln, miller, hobart ). i have a 175 amp lincoln & love it. miller & hobart are owned by the same parent co. "illinois tool works". miller is probably the best quality of the 3 having fewer plastic parts, but with the useage most home units will get, lincoln & hobart will be fine. go ahead & save your money & get a 230 volt unit. it will do anything the 120 volt welder will do & more. if you don't you'll wish you had. this is my most often ignored advice LOL!
the advice already given on aluminum has been good for the most part. it's best done with a spool gun do to the wire being soft. although i haven't tried it with my small wire machine, it may work ok do to the short lead. wire welding aluminum can be done well but it takes practice & won't work too well without preheating at least the 1st couple inches of where you want to weld with a torch. you'll see what i mean by running a bead on a piece of scrap aluminum with no preheat. for a ways the bead will pile up high & not penetrate deeply & then as the metal absorbs the heat the weld will flatten out & penetrate deeper & maybe even burn through depending on how hot you are running your machine. you just have to play with it & like i said practice.
as far as overhead welding goes, its no different than horizontal flat you're just uside down!! seriously it is this mind set that helped me learn welding over head. just imagine that you're not upside down & you're looking "down" on your work & welding in the horizontal flat position. oh yeah one more thing, try to position your body so you don't set your clothes on fire!
hope this helps,
robert.