Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance Help needed to change 4 piles into 1

In an effort to organize stuff I'm planning a new project. It will hopefully turn 4 piles of my "collection" into one good truck. Pile#1:complete '89 GMC 2500 305 donor pick-up,Pile #2:a good running stock 292,Pile#3 complete turbo set up from an '80 Pontiac 301,Pile#4 a '68 Chevy C 30 flatbed. The good truck will be the '68! The '89 will donate it's TBI,ECM,harness,700R4,fuel tank,fuel pump,tranny mount and cross member,EFI sensors. I plan to use a Megasquirt to regulate the EFI. I hope efi-dyi can tell me how to plug it into my harness. All three engines being nearly the same size305,301,292 it should be dooable,right? What cam would be best? What head work will help? I'll be hauling and pulling loads,it's a truck. I'm not new to 6's or this board but I've been on the information dirt road for seven years. Oh,right it's draw through. Why,because I have it.

"All three engines being nearly the same size305,301,292 it should be dooable,right?"

Yep its quite easy. Get a HEI dist. for the ignition this way you can control the timing as well as the fuel.

I suggest getting the truck running with the stock 292 first then convert to EFI ( install the EFI tank, pump, and fuel lines and use a holley bypass regulator to feed the stock carb) then add the turbo. A little planing will ease the upgrades. This way you can test and sort out issues as you go. The only kink with this approach is the TV cable for the 700R4. When you get closer to installing the harness let me know and we work through it.

Thanks, thats the route I am hoping to take. There is a local guy here who is great with turbos and has said he will help. I am presently doing my Megasquirt homework and going back through these pages and reading your past posts. Your 292-tbi project is just the kind of stuff I've been looking for! I have another fried here deep into a 4200/'50 Chevy pick-up project. I'm printing that info out for him. Thanks again!

One item you will need once you add the turbo is a really good ignition system - so I suggest you start looking for an aftermarket ignition box (crane, msd etc...) and a set of MSD plug wires a bit spendy but worthwhile. This also makes controlling the timing with MS easier.

Are you talking about the MSD with boost retard? We did that on my son's supercharged Studebaker. A good unit. I have a new/rebuilt HEI that I planed to use. I measured the output of the turbo today. It is 2". The stock intake manifold carb port is 1 7/8'. If I cut the 1/8' to the out board side the inner stud would aline the unit perfectly. Then by milling the surface the remaining 2 holes would easily fit on the mounting surface using the stock Pontiac gasket. The three bolt 292 exhaust manifold flange and the turbo in flange apear to be the same. A simple "U" bend could connect them, There's a start. Thanks , I don't mean to ramble. As far as spendy goes, the piles are already here. The rest is like Apollo 13, make this fit that using this. Hot rodders in space!

"Are you talking about the MSD with boost retard?"

No, msd 6A or equivelent in a crane,mallory or other aftermarket ignition box. By controlling the timing with MS as the boost comes on you program less timing for that point in the timing map (manifold pressure vs rpm).

OK, That's added to the list. I'll start looking for one. Do you think it would be easier to start out using a turbo 400 and switch to the 700R4 when I go to the TBI and '89 harness/MS? Baby steps.

another option for the dizzy is a 81 chevy pickup with calif emmisions. that dist used electronic spark control and will fit perfectly with the MS system. i use one on mine. got mine from O Rielly's Auto parts. had it new and in 2 days. tom

Tom, those are great pics! I'm not sure what my distributer is, I think '87, but I'll get the one you suggest to be sure. Thanks for the help, I need it!

-Transmission - I'd go with th OD reight away, save a few $$ on driveshaft mod's.

- If your going to use the '81 distributor, one item that will make your wiring easier is to get a GM TBI to MS adapter board - this allows a direct plug in to the GM harness one on side and direct into MS on the other side. Get hold of Jerry at DIY Autotune for this board and if he doesn't want to help please let me know.

I went to the DIY Autotune site and there is a lot to read there too. I have a lot of homework to do before I'll even know what questions to ask. Thanks for guiding me to these places. Is it just to get me out of here?

Once you get over the inital fright, it will slowly come together and then the questions will come. Once you get the engine fired the first time on efi and see how easy it is to tune it may well be the last time you take a screw driver out of the tool box to set the idle mixture...

At the last local swap meet I sold off my last bin of holley carb parts and I think my Qjet bin will be going soon except for 1 or 2 carb's.

http://www.inliners.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003857

Sorry for the cross/repeat posting but its relevant to this swap.

Good point - this should be plug and play with the later model TBI harness. If the inline timing reference connector is unpluged then the dist will fire by itself with no advance. Set base timing for say 10 deg BTDC.

efi-dyi,Thanks for this! This is exactly what I need to really get this going. What is special about the '81 pick-up Calif. dist? The old Carquest book I have doesn't show it as such. Thanks again,now I can order the MS stuff.

Ask Tom - this dist. never came to Canada so it N/A here

tlowe I.I.#1716
Active BB Member
Member # 1326

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5 Icon 1 posted 03 November, 2007 05:30 AM Profile for tlowe I.I.#1716 Email tlowe I.I.#1716 Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote another option for the dizzy is a 81 chevy pickup with calif emmisions. that dist used electronic spark control and will fit perfectly with the MS system. i use one on mine. got mine from O Rielly's Auto parts. had it new and in 2 days. tom

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65 ELCO turbo 292 EFI/Intercooled/700R4/3.55 gears.Inliners Member 1716.

here are some pic's http://profile.imageshack.us/user/tlowe/

I found a Holley TBI adapter and am dealing on a MSD 6AL. I'd feel better with the rev limiter. I'm not sure about the wideband O2 kit. The MSD,Holley,or Edlebrock books don't seem to designate their O2 sensors as wideband.Edlebrock calls one,#36013 a narrowband. MSD#2330 heated,Edlbrock#3591,And Holley#43-106 & #534-27. Am I close?

efi-dyi, OK, I went back to the DYI site. I found the wideband kits. Do I need the controller or just the o2 sensor? I couldn't find the GM TBI adapter,only the Ford. The MS 3.00 main board is what they show as a v3 board? The MS II processor plugs into that? The MS stim is? And this assembly will go back into the GM ECM case with a new hole for the computer conecter? What do you charge for baby-sitting?

Beater - the adapter boards out for manufacture now - wait 2 weeks and DIY will have it...

You need the whole wideband kit that includes a sensor.

The MS 3.00 main board is what they show as a v3 board? -->> YES The MS II processor plugs into that? >>> YES

The MS stim is? Is for bench testing the MS controller and installing new software. Its a REAL handy item to have in case you have any doughts if things are working.

And this assembly will go back into the GM ECM case with a new hole for the computer conecter? YEP

What do you charge for baby-sitting? not much..

The MS software has a rev limiter built in - no need to spend extra $$$ on a 6al ..

What do you charge for baby-sitting? Email - some pix of the running instal.
Phone - hmmm?
On-site - return airfare + a guest room - chow would be nice too....

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/innov...a438d192dabcecd

Thanks again. That helps a lot! I just finished reading the MS manual for putting the V3.0 board thgether. I hope it makes more sense when I actually sit down with the parts,manual,and solder.
I am giong to the wreckers and pick up an ECM and enough harness for patching. That way I can leave the '89 running for a while longer while I put the MS together. Tanks for the tip on the MSD 6a. I want to take pics of this whole thing.
Man that Wideband kit $$$$! So much for the $500 EFI conversion. The original idea was combine four piles. Now I have five. Oh well I'm hooked! This looks like fun.

The wideband is worth the $$$$ - you could get the lower cost LC1 for $199 but the A/F ratio gage is just so cool and useful too.....

With the wideband you set up the desired A/F ratio at each of the table vertexs and then drive while data logging. Take the data log run it through megalogviewer optimization s/w (runs on the laptop) it read the log file and adjusts the VE table for you. You then load the new VE table and go for another drive while logging and repeat the process 2 or 3 times and poof you have a good base tune up.

That sounds cool,By the time I get back from Calgary I should have it dialed in! I guess I'll need another laptop,this one is a MacBook and I doubt it will run the MS program. Think I'll turn the pictures into a Movie, "MR. Beater Builds a Dream Truck"

Well Wendover is a good 2 day drive from here...

efi-diy Gosh,Wendover wrecks most of a day from here. When we get deeper into this project and you're on your way to or from Wendover I have a Tahoe deal to offer. No $$$ involved.

Hey I know were Dayton is, and I love Tahoe. Are all those old fire engines still there. I've got a spare laptop too. :rolleyes:

Larry

Larry, The fire trucks belonged to Bill Anderson of Pondarosa Ranch fame. He's sold most of the stuff there. Much of it came from the Harrah's collection. You would not beleave what used to be inside that building! Ford flathead and Gmc stuff out the ..... About the only truck left there is my old '40 International, but I've got the '26 chevy roadster body that sat out front. So whats the laptop?

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtii-746747-adapter-p-187.html

Diyautotune has the adapter boards up..

I've been looking and had not seen them yet even after your message. I've got my list and am putting stuff in pile #5. I have also located a '91 4x4 1 ton rolling chassis. (dirt cheap) Frame,axles tranny/transfer, etc. Everything but the engine and body. So it'll be 4x4 by & by. When I remove the wire harness should I include everything to the gauges? Would it work to just use the '89 instrument panel and gauges? Will the check engine light serve any purpose in the MS system? Thanks,BOTP

OK, pile #6 added '89-'90 heavy 3/4 ton Suburban 4x4, everything but the big block. Pretty much sub this for original pile #1. I'll build this as a roller and switch the '68 cab and bed over. Much easier in the long run. Easier to put the turboed injected 292 in complete chassis that already has tank, lines, tranny,transfer,drive lines,axles ....... Different drive train same project. If I find a TBI and wire harness I can leave the '89 in tact and sell it to finance the rest. Will also end up with a '68 roller 350,turbo400,complte chassis. I don't think I'm fulfilling my original goal of consolidating 4 piles of cr.. into one useable vehicle. Oh well the government will be here to help soon!

When I remove the wire harness should I include everything to the gauges? Would it work to just use the '89 instrument panel and gauges? Will the check engine light serve any purpose in the MS system? Thanks,BOTP

Check engine light - not used.

As for the rest of your question - hmm you would need to check the wiring diagrams for both vehicles. I don't have the info.

The GM adapter sohws up as a just a circut board with a list of components needed to assemble it. Do you know the cost of the parts?

Less than $20 not including the junk ecm.

Goto http://digikey.com/ and plug in the part numbers to get an exact price.

The weather is better and I can work in the shop. I started the mock up on my injected,turboed 292. I got the intake back from the machine shop and have the manifolds bolted to the block. The turbo unit is bolted on. I'm now working on brackets/mounts, oil and water lines, exhaust, etc. I haven't ordered the MS yet but will soon. I have decided to leave the cab & bed on the '68 frame. It will be easier for me to switch desirable parts from the 4X4 '90 Suburban rather than put the '68 cab on the '90 frame. I'll try to post some pictures soon. I still have lots of questions. I'm rereading Leo's and Corkey Bell's books and lots of web pages.

Water heat for the Firebird turbo plenum, can I take water from thermostat housing below the thermostat and return it to the 1/2" outlet on the head between #1 & #2 cylinders? All of my heads don't have that hole but two do. Also oil line to turbo, if I run a 1/4" line from the oil pressure port on the passenger side and use a fitting in that line for the pressure sender will that rob oil pressure from the bottom end? And last for today,Will I get a good enough temp reading if I put the sender in the water jacket of the plenum, or should it be nearer to the thermostat? Thanks!

beater,
if you take water from below therm and you want it to flow back to head, it won't flow. same pressure both sides. maybe find a t-stat housing that has a fittint in it above stat. use that to return to.
the oil to the turbo you have mentioned is a good one. you have no other choices. it will not rob much oil. be sure to support the line so as to not vibrate and cause a failure.
the temp sender in the intake will be cooler than the engine water temp. put it in the head hole between #1 and 2.
tom

Thanks Tom, I just came in from the shop and have two more questions. I'm using a turbo from an '80 Firebird. Can I do away with the EGR? Where can I get a replacement waste gate actuator?