Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance Bonneville.... TBI conversion - installation demo

I'm planning on attending B-Ville in Aug. and have an offer to make ...

If any of you inliners who will be there with your rides are interested in seeing live what it will take to do an efi-tbi conversion, and that have a 4bbl intake (holley flange, 70 amp alternator and electronic ignition (HEI is OK) MSD6A preferred). I'll make you an offer here...

I'll bring along all the bits and pieces to do a parking lot EFI-TBI conversion, using a 1 gallon jerry can as the gas tank since running the lines for real takes the most time. We'll un-bolt your carb, bolt on the TBI and be up and running in under 60 min's. .....

We'll be able to get it idling and if you have a place to hang the gas can - go for a short low speed drive...

I'll be able to demonstrate the tuning s/w on the laptop.

All we'll need is an accessible under hood battery connection - we'll run power from the battery, access to the tach output on the ignition, a thermally warm motor - not hot as we'll hang the coolant sensor in the rad neck and then use a toggle switch to turn the system on/off instead of messing your wiring.

We can forgo the O2 and air temp sensors for this demo... but if the exhaust pipe had an O2 bung installed then we could screw in the O2 sensor...

Once we're done we'll re-install your carb again - just like it was...

Any interest ? I could talk a bit at the BBQ if folks were interested.

This sounds very interesting! I want to go to Boneville this year but my 292 won't be that far along. I'd sure like to watch what you do. Another local guy is building one also maybe he'll be up for it. It would be great to meet you any way!

Great offer for someone to see how MegaSquirt is installed and tuned. Once you see the results you will throw the carb in the trash can.

We just completed the installation of MegaSquirt on the 1950 Buick salt flat race car. We are still running the 4-71 blower and carb on it for now. We are using the MS for datalogging purposes only, we got DIYAutoTune.com to change the ecu to read MAT at two locations, above and below the blower.

Love to but the class won't allow it. JD

Don't know if I'll be there, but would this offer be good for an inliner that's driving a 4V equipped ride with an off topic mill?

Well get the engine together and mount it in an engine test stand. Get it running on the carb and bring it along... for that matter it could be any engine with a holley 4bbl intake flange... as long as it runs normally e.g. no oil burners or burnt valves or blown intake gasket it'll do the job.

The 270 in my '53 pick-up? It's running a 500 cfm Edlebrock on a Clifford manifold. I could get a Holley adapter if needed. I was thinking of driving it any way. I built it in '78 but it runs well. I drove to Austin a year ago and to work almost every day. If that will work I'll see you in Windover! If by chance the 270 won't work I'll come up with something that will. Our Chapter event is the 31st in Minden, NV, I can twist an arm or two there.

As long as it has a holley flange and 12V electronic ignition it'll be fine.

How about with the MSD 'ready to run' distributor'?

That will be just fine. Just need to get a tach signal from it and we're good.

Pertronics in stock distributer or Unilite, I've got both for the 270.

Either one will work. I'll have to configure the board to take coil - terminal input as the tach .. 10 min's work no biggie..

Speed Week is August 18th-24th. What part of the week do you want to do it? I'll be there. If a better candidate shows up I'll be glad to watch.

I'll have to check what day we're supposed to arrive with the race car (Black Opel) and let you know.

Maybe we do at it the inliners BBQ? If you have a canopy to set up - it'll be a little cooler out of the sun to work on it and easier to read the laptop.

OK, I'll get a can-a-pee, I don't know how you use that in Canada to keep cool, but I know I've got a lot to learn. If we're going to work in the shade of it I'll get a BIG can. Inliners BBQ sounds good. Let me know when you can. My time is pretty flexable. Thanks, Tom

If you make a DVD of this process, I'd like to buy one from you. I'm still looking to do it with GM wiring and ECM. Someone on eBay makes a small cap HEI distributor (4.3L style) to fit into the newer inline engines. (194 thru 292) I'm making mine from the 181 marine distributor transplanting the 4.3L stuff on it. Lets see how it all comes out.

when and where is the BBQ? I didn't see it on the events calender? I would love to attend and see the conversion as well. We will be racing during the day(Contrivance Engineering guys w yellow 23t, red 27t, blue stude)
Hans

After dragging the exhaust off of the '53 hauling the Big Dodge home from Minden I had new pipes put on Friday. 2" straight pipes from the Fentons to the back bumper. A very different sound! It seems that some of the lopey cam is a head gasket leak between #2 & 3. I guess I'll spend my 63rd birthday fixing that tomorrow! It's got to run well I've got a Bar-B-Que to attend in August. Funny, I couldn't really hear it with the old exhaust and I just thought it wasn't as snappy as it once was. I thought it was just old age, both of us. I've been driving that old 270 hard since '78. It'll be interesting to peek inside. I hope it is only a gasket. When's the BBQ?

While your in there fixin things, add in a O2 sensor bung make sure that the sensing tip of the O2 sensor is pointing downward so moisture can't collect in the O2 sensor.

This thing has Fenton headers and duel pipes. Would one bung in one pipe work, or do I need one in each pipe? This is a demo for the EFI but the real future for this engine will be a McCullach/two carb set up. An o2 sensor would be handy there too.

Just one bung is enough. The 2nd is optional.

Do you have a spare place to screw a coolant sensor into the head or cooling jacket - just thinking ahead... the rads going to be really hot and under pressure to just open and hang the sensor into the rad neck... '88 to '92 TBI truck efi coolant sensor will work fine - about $10 at the auto parts or less at the junkyard

Once you get this back together can you send me a few pix of the engine so I know where were going to have to hook up to .. power ground, tach, vacumm etc...

I'll rig a sensor and take some pictures. It's been a slower go than I though, but it's getting there.

Ok from your pix, we might be able to rig a throttle cable and drive it a bit. I did notice that the intake manifold has a clover leaf in the middle... We should be ok. I'll have to look at the TBI to carb adapter plate..

When we do the conversion the mechanical fuel pump will have to be plugged off so we don't pump gas everywhere... so think of the best way to do that and bring it along.

Hey efi-diy, do you know of a small (250 - 350 cfm) single-venturi type throttle body? I've got two cars that could use a simple "carb replacement". One's got a Carter YF now the other a Carter WCD (small 1950's 2bbl). Decidedly non-performance apps, but hey, there's a place for everything.

Allgedly Ford had one that fit to a YF type flange. I'll be damned if I can locate one by app. I don't know new-fangled cars well enough to find it by car model.

Try any of the late '80's GM FWD cars, the low end 4 cyl. models came with TBI. Next time I'm at the wreckers I'll take a look.

This is where I am right now. I ended up with a vacuum leak that I'll fix Friday. It's about bolting a 302 manifold on a 270 head. You've got to do some creative gasketing! I got a 10 X 20 canape for shade. It has sides if we need them. I have a temp sensor for an '89 GMC that I'll install on the thermostat housing below the thermostat where the heater hose comes out. It takes a two wire plug. I got an O2 sensor bung and plug. I don't want to try to mount it on the header but on the front exhaust pipe. How for down the pipe should it be? It has a 45 degree base so it can be mounted so as not to collect moisture. The tach connects to the negative coil terminal. We could remove the mechanical fuel pump or maybe just the fuel line. I'll bring a block off plate. I'll try to get some more detailed pictures Friday and post them. Tom

Have you guys figured out where and when you are going to do this?

The thought was to do it at the inliners BBQ so all can watch,I think its on the Tuesday.

Put the 02 sesnor bung about 24 inches downstream of the manifold with the tip of the sensor pointed down so moisture won't collect inthe sensor.

Do you have a connection point under the hood that is 12V switched from the ignition switch where we could hook up an alligator clip?

Maybe the 12ga wire going to the alt. field connection.

It has a one wire alternator. There is a fuse panel on the firewall. I think that is switched. I'll check it in the morning. 2 feet down for the O2 sensor, It will be easy to weld but maybe tough to reach from the top. We'll make it work!

I hope to put alligator clips on the 5 wires we'll need to hook up to the vehicle harness... 5 min's to hook up the wiring :).

The 12V source that is switched needs to be hot in both run and crank.

We'll also need a manifold vacuum connection with a 1/4" hose barb to hook up the MAP sensor.

Manifold vacuum is on the list. I'll locate a wire or run one.

This is a great idea. It will be good for people to see the process of changing to efi using MegaSquirt. I am surprised that more people do not change from the carb to efi.

Here is a link to pics I took yesterday. They more clearly show where things will connect. When the O2 bung is in I'll add it. I'm still having trouble with the Intake manifold seal and an oil leak. I drove it to Reno yesterday to help my son move. It runs great under power. The straight pipes were a mistake! Although it sounds tough when you're on it. Tom

http://picasaweb.google.com/sixpics/UnderHoodHookups?authkey=Nghu1DVZe7Y

This morning I went down to the U pull yard to get the parts to do the swap less the fuel pump and inline fuse holders.

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Total cost for the parts less the TBI to carb adapter less than $90.
Add $40 for the TBI adapter

Megasquirt II ready built $400 ($247 if you build it yourself).
$35 for the TBI to MS GM harness adapter board.

Fuel pump - used $30

Inovate LC1 wide band $179 (local speed shop) (or borrow one) you only really need it to do the initial fuel tune up and as long as you don't change the engine configuration you can use a regular narrow band sensor once your done the tune up.

Misc. stuff $100 (all the small stuff)

So all together for roughly $540 you can have a full EFI system controlling both fuel and ignition timing, if you build the MS yourself. About the same price as a new carb (locally).

At the demo we'll just do the fuel side only, when starting from scratch either do the fuel OR ignition control as its a lot tougher to sort out both at once.

Once the demo is done if anyone wants the harness,GM ECM,TBI and fuel stub lines I'll sell it for $100 ( a couple of $$ for my gas to go get it and prep the harness). The MS is out of my truck so its coming home with me..:)

what did you pull all that from? Truck,Van Car???? v8,v6?inline4??. Or does it really matter as long as it had a TBI

Larry,

This one is out of a '88 chevy full size van. Its one of the easiest harnesses to yank out and need minimal work to make into a conversion harness.

But anything that had TBI will work.

Cool
I have that same Van so now i know what else will come out even thow i had already plained on taking it out anyway along with the 700R that is in it. Because right I am thinking of getting rid of that van because I am not sure if the timing chain has went or If it may just be the fuel pump at this time. and I'm not if i feel like putting anymore money into that van. because it needs a bunch of front end parts. Anything Else I need of it??