Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected Lets break something

Some folks wont like this post, which is fine but it is what it is.

I know a fella thats itching to pull his 194 and drop a LSX engine in its place, based on our conversations, its gonna happen within the next six months.

Light bulb went off and I suggested we do a low buck turbo setup just to see what happens, if it blows it blows, wont make any difference. It doesnt have to be pretty or optimal.

The ignition is upgraded and the carb fresh rebuilt, car runs really good, my vote was to tweak the engine but he wants it gone and with his other LSX conversion recently completed, theres no likelihood of changing his mind, with good reason.

I was just curious if someone might make a suggestion for a cheap turbo, there are so many more available today than a couple decades ago and Im just not up to speed, chrysler 2.2's seems to be the response regardless of cubic inches, X gets one, Y gets two. Any suggestions for another OE unit that might work ok, does anyone have a turbo they would let go for little cash, and work ok?

Is there anything I should be aware of using the the stock carb? Simple float swap do the trick or should the carb be encloses? Some other issue im not aware of? Anyone have a cheap draw through to save some hastle?

Im just looking for cheap and easy, just to say we did it before we pulled the engine.

Here is a link to photos of a 292 turbo project I'm working on. It is low $$$$. Modified stock manifolds, free draw through turbo unit from an '80 Firebird, and a free stock 292. My plan is to use megasquirt (not free) to run the TBI from an '89 GMC. I'm not sure if, or how well, the TBI will work in a draw through situation, but if it doesn't I'm just out a few bucks and a little time. If it does work I've got almost everything to build a good 292. My goal is a good truck engine for my '68 1 ton flatbed, a firewood/hay haulin', trailer pullin', tool toten', dually smokin' work truck!

http://picasaweb.google.com/sixpics/InjectedTurboed292?authkey=1XxF7v37Wbw#

contact greybeard here on the forum. he has a complete turbo setup that he would sell. atleast i think he would.

that little engine will surprise you guys. the real weak link is the cast pistons and the thin upper ring land. keep it from detonating and it will live a long time and surprise both of you. tom

Here's one on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-81-T...DVW#ht_2555wt_0

Seems kinda steep....Im thinking really low buck, if it blows it blows.

Is there anything specific that needs to be modified on the stock carb, for a blow through? Usually its the float but Im thinking the stock carb doesnt have float options like the 4v, then again, i dont know.

To my suprise the fella has taken interest in this.

Anyone wanna throw out some cheap ideas to consider? Maybe in the area of fuel delivery and boost reference.

Whats the options as far as, upgrading the mechanical fuel pump?

Think we will stick with the stock one barrel for now.


I contacted graybeard.

I think the upgrade on the fuel pump would be a necessity, I also think you should step up to at least a big 2 BBL. of some kind for additional fuel. I have taken a 600 Holley before and cut it in half and made a 2 BBL. from it. Kinda' like the Pro Stock guys do with their Dominator carbs. Im making a 21st century 2 x 2 intake for a Flathead.The reason I mentioned a 600 Holley is because they are so cheap.... If you want to get an actual 500 CFM 2300 series 2 BBL.Holley, I'll make you a base to make a sheet metal intake for if you send me a baseplate gasket, if that will interest you. I figure if your gonna' do it, throw about 8-9 psi boost on it as a minimum. I don't think a 1 BBL. will provide enough fuel for you.

i agree with cnc. it will need a surprising amount of fuel. use either a large 2bbl or a smaller 4 bbl. use a electric fuel pump with a cheap regulator that is boost referenced. back the timing to 20 degrees max and hit it with 15-20 lbs boost and spin it up to 6500 rpm. tom

Here is a low buck turbo 6 install
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xSB2uvlOOtQ
I gave him info on parts to use.

MBHD

now that you mention it, Wasnt his username RevOd, cant seem to get the old posts to come up.

so he needs to see about more carb....that draw thru posted earlier is looking better huh

I was reading and someone with claimed experience.

Stated a 2v installed on fords would offer better performance than a small 4v on low psi levels (under 10)

there was also mention of using a SBC mechanical pump and modifying it to increase psi with boost.

thoughts?

This one too big? Do those numbers (on the turbo) mean anything to anyone? Does have the turbonetics symbol but based on their website, thats an older casting.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Acc...d=p4506.c0.m245

Need to ask the seller what size turbine wheel it has.
The A/R on the turbine housing?.

To me, it's looks too small on the turbine side for a 194 CI engine.
Compressor wheel,does not look too small,just more concerned on the hot side.



MBHD

Lets start with, that's not a 'T-3' flange, I dunno what it is but the T3, T-3, T03, whatever has a rectangular flange with a bolt hole in each corner. Unless you just gotta have that one, pass.

I see the Turbonetics logo on the Compressor housing, but nowhere else, he says it's a hybrid, evidently with a Turbonetics cold side (IF it has a turbonetics compressor, which you can't really tell from the pics).

What's with showing the turbo so that the cartridge is only upside down??? The tube with the braided hose in the middle and the two bolt flange on the end appears to be the oil drain hose, that would make the banjo fitting next to it a water fitting, so what's wrong with the oil feed or the other water port?

Maybe I've lead too sheltered a life but water cooling on a T-3 or a T-4 isn't particularly common, of course he says it's a hybrid (not specifically a T3/T4 hybrid), sooo hybrid what?

I asked for AR info, etc, he couldnt supply anything, just stated the turbo was HUGE and would make alotta power.

We in no hurry.

Ebay is litered with subaru turbos off a 2.0 and they basicaly giving them away. Too bad they small.

you need a turbo more this size.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4-T3T...emZ380073424382 . but with a larger exhaust housing. the bigger housing will help control the spoolup better. that same guy also has a cheap t3 band flange adaptor.

here is another. differance here is no internal wastegate. add a large external WG to control boost and it should do well on the 194. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garrett-t...d=p4506.c0.m245 tom

This turbo:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4-T3T...emZ380073424382
Would be OK,turbine wheel is a bit small ,but the A/R is good for a 194 CI engine.
Remember it is not a 292.
Good for a 4.3 V-6 also,but again,turbine wheel is too small.
Just an example, not recommended,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Master-Po...mZ270291031634I believe turbine wheel is too small also ,but they have bigger ones like stage 4 or 5.


MBHD

Master Power turbos from Brazil seem to be good,& are less money.


MBHD

that 2nd turbo you mentioned , i believe is too big on the compressor side for the 194. it will be able to supply too much air and easily overboost the engine.

300 you will probably need to run a turbo like the 1st one i mentioned and also add a external wastegate to keep the boost in check. it will be hard to find a cheap turbo to handle almost 200 ci for the exhaust side . it would be great to find a t3/t4 a/r50 on compressor and .96-1.2 on the exhaust. i just have not seen any. so you could settle for the smaller .63 exh trim and use the bigger wastegate to vent the exhaust. tom

Dont most turbos have the A/R #'s cast into the housing somewhere for ID purposes, so there will be no confusion as to what they are. I have one off of a GNX Buick that has it cast into it, and most others I have seen do also.

Domestic ones, even some European ones, yes. Asian, or Japaneese (like Mitsubishi Heavy Industries for example), not so much. Holset doesn't even use A/R per se, they give the specific area at a specific radius (for the turbine I understand it's at the tangent intersection with the T wheel nice 'n simple aint it?).

Yeah, that would be like all the cam companies each using different methods, other than the @.050 lift standard to represent their camshafts,making it impossible to compare one to the other. Do you see much if any advantage of using a turbo over a Paxton or Vortech centrifugal supercharger. Or is more a $$$ issue or preference. I've seen it done both ways on here in different posts and was just curious.

I asked about marking, thinking as you do, he said there were none, then informed me in not so many words he wasnt an idiot. haha People.


Ill take a look at the suggestions.


About how much are the master power turbos going for? I think we wanna go low buck as possible. Suggestions were made that if this turns out positively, then a trubo bent 8 would be next.

.96 A/R on the turbine housing???? waaaayyyy too big for a 194, unless you want to use a 3500 RPM stall converter to get the turbo to have any chance of spooling up.

Prices on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Master-Po...emZ270290729073

your choice of 17 different turbos
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Master-Po...emZ120264317296


MBHD

This one has approx the correct specs,but it's cheap $$$$ & I do not indorse this item,I do not have any info on this product, I just found it on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4-AR5...emZ120056190516

US $274.99 55 for shipping,,, turbo & fuel regulator
MBHD

Dunno What the going rate for Garrets are, but the shop I'm dealing with locally quoted me a range of $480-$650 for a Holset (depending on which one I wanted). Bummer is Holset is the polar opposite of Garrett, they want to keep all their data 'proprietary' (aka secret), so all the compressor maps I have seen are the same one (reputed by people other than Holset to be for different models). I have some pretty good annecdotal sizing references and I'm going with an overhauled Holset from a '01+ Dodge Cummins W/ auto trans (Holset, HY35, 9cm^2 turbine housing). I'm puting this on a 3.9L Turbo Diesel (238 ish CID), it turns 3600 max (governor defueling point). Not sure if that would fit your plans but it will make loads of boost (more than you'll want, Higher pressure ratios are what Holset's claim to fame is) and it comes with a waste gate.

I only bring that up as your 194 isn't that different size wise and you can pick these up fairly cheap (the Dodge guys take them off to upgrade, as the turbine is too restrictive once you get above several hundred diesel horsepower [aproching 1000 Lb ft] on a 5.9L [360 ish CID]). Diesels do run more air through the engine for a given power though, so I'm not sure how that would translate to a gas burner (less gas through the turbine = later spool, but on Cummins and Isuzu 3.9's they are apparently spooling somewhere around 1500). You might check Craigslist in your area.

Oh, I didn't catch if you were doing Blow through or Draw through, AFAIK Holset doesn't have a provision for a carbon compressor seal.

I was thinking blow thru, as you mentioned, the majority are set up blow thru.



If we could get our hands on a cheap draw thru, Im sure wed do that, as it would be easier tuning wise Id think.

That draw through on eBay has 2 hours left. The bib is $149.25. Who knows what it will take but all there and was on a 300ci engine.