Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines Noisy lifters?

Gentlemen,
I was cruising along in my '79 c-10, 250, bone stock, 160,000 miles on the motor. Gave it a little punch from a stop sign and suddenly got this very, very loud push rod, rocker arm kinda noise. I mean it sounded like something smacking the inside of the valve cover. Oil pressure stayed up, 45 lbs., temp stayed at about 175 F. But the noise is terrible. I pulled the valve cover and found no excessively loose rocker arms. I readjusted the valve lash and fired it up and it sounded OK until I really revved the motor and the noise came back. Could this be a collapsed lifter? I am certain that it is not a rod knock. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Ken

It might be a lifter that just can't take it at higher RPMS. I had one in a late 235 that wouldn't stay up at highway speed. I replaced the set and all was well. (at least with my engine )

I agree with Beater. At 160,000 miles worth of being bounced up and down several hundred times a minute, I think one of your lifters got tired. Fortunately, a new set of lifters isn't too expensive, but don't forget to break them in if you decide to put in a new set.

Gentlemen,
Thanks for your help. Did your failed lifter make a hell of a noise? Can I drive it in this condition for let's say, 30 miles?
Ken

i once had a valve spring fail on a stock 250. it made a bad noise too. just replaced only that spring and it ran on great. so i am saying eyeball your parts real good. it is probably a easy fix. tom

That happened to me too in mine, I couldn't get the lifter's out due to all the varnish on them, and I ended up taking it to my local mechanic who pulled the cam and knocked them out into the inside, then removed them. He couldn't find anything wrong with the motor at all. I have yet to put it all back together with a new set of lifters to see if that was truly the issue though.

What do you mean by break them in Zeke? I am not familiar with that.

Zeke,
I second the question. How do you break them in? Also, what techniques have you gentlemen used successfully to remove lifters with the engine in the truck?

Thanks.
Ken

grab them with vise grips. wiggle left and right while pulling up. spray lifter sides with brake cleaner to help loosen the gunk at the lower edge to get them out. tom

El Viejo, It was long ago in a universe far away. I was driving home from Sonora to Oakland. Around Mantica it started making a lot of noise. When I pulled over and checked the engine it quit. Back on the highway it got noisy again. I slowed down to about 50 and went home. Around town it was fine if I didn't really get on it. When I got around to it I changed the lifters. It was a 235 I pulled from a '58 Chevy sedan. It was in a '49 pickup. I'm not recommending that you drive it because it could do a lot of damage to the cam and valve train. Like has been said yours could also be a weak or broken spring. Good luck, I hope it's an easy fix. Beater

For Thomas and El Viejo, when you install new lifters, even with an old cam, it's a good idea to coat the base of each lifter with assembly lube after you've soaked it in engine oil to fill it up (if it's a hydraulic lifter) and the first time you fire the engine with new lifters, run it up to 2500 rpm for 20 minutes to mate the lifter bases with the cam lobes. It doesn't hurt any to fill the engine oil galleys by rotating the oil pump by hand until you get oil pressure up before you start the engine either. Yeah, you have to pull the distributor to do that.

Gentlemen,
I am trying to extract lifters from my Chevy 250 while in the truck. I have been pulling the first lifter that I am attempting to remove with vise grips, and spraying the edges with carb & choke cleaner, for 3 days, a half hour to 45 minutes at a time. The lifter is out up to the thinner section (the black part) in the middle now (took two days to get that far), but is not coming completely out. Do the lifter pullers that Lisle or KD market work? Any ideas?
Thanks.
Ken

It shouldn't be that hard. This is the one we talked about a white back that was making noise a higher RPMs? Have you tried more than one? I have not used the tools you mention but both companies make good tools. I don't know if that is one of the tools that Kragen rents or not. Their tool rental is a good deal. You buy the tool ad if you get it back in 24 hours they refund all your money. Otherwise its about $6 a day. It sounds like the lifter is mushroomed and the bottom can't fit through the hole. If that's the case that cam lobe is probably gone too. Let us know how you make out.

beater is right. the lifter may be mushroomed. brake cleaner will work better than carb cleaner to cut the buildup. follow up the brake cleaner with any good spray lube.
i do not think those other tools will grab the lifter as solidly as visegrips.
be persistant they will come out. worse senario is pushing them out the bottom. tom

If the lifters are mushroomed, pulling them up thru the lifter bores will gouge and scar the lifter bores. If it can be determined that the camshaft has worn a lobe or two off,which it is appearing that is the case, the engine will need to be completely disassembled anyway. You might be able to insert an inspection mirror into the fuel pump hole(remove fuel pump), and see(with flashlight) if you can see the lobes at the front of the cam, or at least closest to the pump hole. If camshaft damage is evident, then with the engine upside down on a stand, the lifters can be pushed down far enough to remove the camshaft, and then knocked back into the bores from the top side, eliminating the possible damage to the bores. As an extra step, you could cut the oil filter open and see if there are excess amounts of trash in it, revealing evidence of parts failure. Good luck....

Gentlemen,
Thank you for all your responses. I am still trying to locate the offending lifter(s). Would there be any negative consequences if I were to remove both push rods from a cylinder and start the engine to see if removing those eliminated the noise. If those two did not eliminate the noise, then reinstall them, and move to another cylinder and repeat? I know this is a lot of work, however I cannot think of another way to isolate the cylinder.
Ken

That sounds to me like it should work, at least for isolating the offending cylinder that your noise is coming from. If the noise keeps happening, then one of two things is possible. One, a whole bunch of lifters are bad, or Two, the problem is in a different part of your motor. Either way, you'll have learned something useful. Just remember to keep the intake and exhaust pushrods identified and install them back into the lifter and rocker arm they were hooked up with originally.

I suspect you can find the noise without removing the pushrods. Take a large screwdriver, make a fist around the handle and hold to your ear, put the other end on the rocker arm nut. The screwdriver transmits the noise. (be careful, if you get the tip on the recriprocating portion of the rocker arm, it will whack your ear! ...ask me how I know! ) A stethoscope is better but this will work. Piece of vacuum hose with a punch in one end will work also as a shadetree stethoscope.

Another thing to try is to just pull a plug wire while it's running. Removing the load from the engine will frequently change the sound that particular cylinder mechanisms are making.

if you've got a wiped cam, there will be a very noticable difference in the lift of each pushrod that you can see just by looking at them.

Here is a cheap or spendy stethiscope

MBHD

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=stethiscope