Inliners International Forums General Discussion Drive Train Nova Bellhousing again

Finally settled on a Saginaw 4 speed and larger tires (14 in)instead of the T-5, Do I have to get the larger hole housing for the Muncie bearing retainer or can I use the original bell? I belive the trans is a 70's model but the price was right and the condition is great. Getting ready to pull the engine for the rebuild and want to get it ready for the summer.

What series engine are you using? early [235-261] or late [193-292]. Maybe you have said somewhere else and I havn't seen it. If your using an early engine I think you'll need a truck bellhousing. If your talking late engine I think any late series 6 or small block housing will work. If I'm wrong someane correct me please. 1 OL REDNECK

Sorry, using a 250 in a 63 Nova

I believe you can still have overdrive.

There used to be 3 speed Saginaw trans w/an external OD unit that will bolt right onto your 4 spd Saginaw,,,,IIRC?

I believe Tlowe here on the BB knows where to find them or even might sell you one???


MBHD

The more I try and simplify my life someone comes along and sends me off in a new direction. I'm guessing this is an electric shifted overdrive? How much extra length is involved?

As for the center hole size, you could look into having the collar turned down to fit the bell, or have the bell punched out to fit the trans. collar. Changing the hole size on the bell would give you better options latrer on should you change the transmission.

I had a '64 Nova with a Saginaw 4-speed installed in it, and the Sag bolts up to the stock 3-speed bellhousing without any problem. I also have a spare aluminum bellhousing from a late Chevy inline six and have no idea what year it's from, and the Saginaw 4-speed fits it too.

There is a lot more to putting the OD on the 4 spd saginaw than just bolting it in. Joe

Joe Dial, Would you please do a thread on that as I have never been able to find anything except it can be done. 1 OL REDNECK

By most accounts, you will need the 64-67 bellhousing. I believe the part number ends in 309. The earlier bellhousing (ending in 88?) had a smaller diameter hole that can be machined to work. If your Chevy II has a Saginaw 3 speed, you may be able to swap the front bearing retainer with the 4 speed and use the small bellhousing as is.

I can't find any threads covering this, do you need the output shaft as well as the overdrive unit?

Another option to get overdrive is to use a 4spd from an early 80's full size Chevy truck. Cable driven speedo.
It's basically a 3 spd with OD, but without the electronic stuff. It is an external shifter, not a toploader like the T5.
For your application, I would make sure you get one with the Chevy pattern, not the half&half pattern, otherwise you won't be able to use it with the Nova bellhousing. It also has the larger 5 1/8" collar, so turning down the collar and enlarging the hole in the bellhousing would be necessary.
Talk to Tlowe, he can give you more info on them.

jalopy; I have got bits and peices from a couple of different people but I don't think I have ever been able to get the story from someone who DONE IT. I was told Barry Weeks in Minnesota eather has had one, sold one or has built one.I use to run into him at the Cedar Rapids swap meet but I have not went the last couple of years. We have contacted one another by email a couple of times concerning the NICSON heads we both own. If he don't respond here shortly I will email him in a few days. I think you have to use the tail housing/shaftand o.d. unit from the 3 speed trans and drill 1 hole in the back of the 4 speed case BUUTTT Iam not sure and havn't tried it YET. 1 OL REDNECK

Those are hard to come by in the chevy pattern, the input shaft is different than the Mopar (spline, pilot and overall length). The Chevy one is production code MY6 I'm spacing what the Mopar boys call it (it's what most people call it, even thought he Chevy one doesn't interchange).

Yes Tlowe should know.

Right now I still plan to use the Saginaw 4 speed behind the 250 as it's almost a bolt in, then Mean Buzzin Half Dozen had to tell me about the Saginaw overdrive and now I'm kinda back to the drawing board. I had bought T-5's from a v-6 Camaro and an s-10 and all the parts to do the installation and then abandoned the idea because I wanted to pull a trailer to swap meets up and down the west coast and the transmission shops I talked to informed me the T-5 wouldn't live long.

Hot Rod magazine did an article on putting an OD on a Saganaw 4 speed in May of 1970, I think. The hardest part is finding a 3 speed Saganaw OD. It uses the same case as the 4 speed. You have to drill one hole in the 4 speed case for the reverse kick out. Other than that pull both tail housings and remove the sliders. Put the two 4 speed sliders one the 3 speed shaft and bolt it on! If it's in a car you are OK. In a pickup there are linkage issues that make a T-5 an easier option. I really enjoy driving the Borg ODs. With a little wire and and a button you can split all gears. That really works in the 3 speed. I think that article is on this board. I know it's on the H.A.M.B. Here is a thread from here Re: 4-spd with an OD from 3-speed Not the one I was looking for but,,,,,

Not hard at all, just contact tlowe... that's were I got mine...

It's based on the Mopar A-833 4spd. Basically the OD version they put behind the slant 6, but with the input and collar for a Chevy and it was used with two different bolt patterns in the Chevies, one that is typical Chevy, and one that is unique and requires the use of the bellhousing that came with it. It's useless for a 62-67 Nova, because the fork is at the wrong angle.

How much of a load?

I believe you are supposed to tow in drive, not overdrive if it's a heavy load, like hauling a car trailer.
Alot of people burn up automatics because they didn't read there owners manual about how to tow properly. Every vehicle is different.

The 1960's version of the 3spdOD is what I believe the conversion requires, and yes, they can be tough to find. I don't think you can get replacement solenoids for them either??

I haven't seen the numbers, but I would think the 1970's iron saginaw 4spd has about the same durability as a T5...???

Here is the Hot Rod stuff. I guess it was April '75. 4 speed OD

Going to have to get a copy and study that some more, if I'm reading that right it's a cable shifted planetary unit and it would make 3.63 gears into something in the neighborhood of 2.50's. And I still won't have to cut the driveshaft. It's a win,win,win situation.

sorry guy's, i have not been following this thread.

i have done the saginaw 3 sp o/d conversion with a 4 spd sag. it works great. ask greybeard here on the brd. you will need both tranny's and the 3 spd o/d fully synchroed version is hard to find. if you take the o/d portion apart and rebearing it/seals or whatever, you will then wonder how it ever goes back together. without this trick you will be S.O.L. a firm rubber band is used to hold the o/d together long enough to assy. it will be left in the assy and eaten by the trans after running.

anyway, the better choice is the MY6 made by new process. it used to be a chrysler A833 4 speed back in the day and then morphed into a O/D with new process.
gm used them in 1/2 ton pickups with 6 & 8 cyl in 2 wd and 4 wd configurations. it uses a external shifter simuliar to a muncie or saginaw. it will certainly hold up behind a 6 and even towing. gear ratios are the same as a 700r4. the are the same length as a saginaw or muncie 3 or 4 sp. same input and outputs also.
the were 2 different bellhousings used for the gm applications. on one the bolt pattern is all the same as a saginaw. the other is 1/2 gm and 1/2 mopar bolt patterns, this used a unique bellhousing. they also used a front bearing retainer that is 5 1/8 in diameter while the sag/munc car bearing retainer is 4 5/8. the retainer can be machined to fit a car bellhousing.

i have a bunch of these trannies that i would part with.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Do you know if the funky bellhousing was used with both sizes of flywheels, or just one?

the MY6 was only used in full size 1/2 ton chevy pickups. they used a larger clutch and the front bearing retainers were 5 1/8". the funky bell was also 5 1/8 and 11" clutch. tom

Tom, Is this a 3 speed and 4th being OD? What years were they found in GM 1/2 tons? Tom/Beater

i believe they started in 1981 and went thru 1987? think of it as a 4 speed with 4th as o/d. 3rd is 1 to 1. tom

here is one in aluminum, it has the goofy bolt pattern. the chevy bolt pattern physically looks the same. tom

Could you measure the vertical height of one of those funky bells for me?
That would tell if it works with the 168 tooth flywheel or not.
Thanks

they for sure used a 168 tooth flywheel.

That bell Houseing will not work in a 62-67 chevyII body
The fork is in the WRONG spot. DEPENDING on which way you are
looking at it The Fork needs to be in the 5/7 O'clock location
Not 3/9.5/7 will clear the floor board. THE 3/9 will NOT WORK.
and the stock chevyII houseings will not take a 168 tooth flywheel. The Lakewood scatter sheild will And you have to use
the STOCK ChevyII fork.

Yes, I have covered all of that.

My point of asking about the funky bellhousing is for those who are interested in using this for some application other than a 62-67 Nova.

No sweat on the bellhousing hole and trans front bearing retainer/throwout bearing support, just look around and you will find the right one, they are interchangeable as to bolt hole spacing. The Saginaw 3 speed overdrive will attach to the Saginaw 4 speed, but machine work in needed.

Jalopy, if you have a T-5 already, install it in your Nova. Before I rebuilt my '65 Pickup, it had a stock 292 and a used S10 T5 trans and I used that truck for towing my stock car and trailer for about 3 years. That trans would still be in it if I hadn't neglected the "small" trans fluid leak. I ran it out of oil but it still got me home in high gear. Burnt out the teeth on the input shaft big time. I can't see you having any problems towing a smaller trailer behind your Nova to the swap meets. I think you will be very happy with this setup. I know I am in my truck.