Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance how about a ls V8 type head?

guy's,
got to see a ls V8 type head at my local machine shop. patterned a paper copy of the head and gasket.
the ls V8 has the same bore center as a sbc and our six's. the ls motors are also a small bore like our six's. the heads will flow lots of air even in stock form. they are also a 4 bolt per hole arrangement. they also have a 1.75 rocker ratio.

i fitted my paper copy onto a 292 block. the bores will allign perfectly. no bolt holes line up though. but they are very close to the stock locations. the valve arrangement is also different, it is IE,IE,IE,IE. i feel this head can be used easier than a sbc head and make more power. the cam would have to be ground for this special valve layout. aslo a side cover and pushrods would be custom.
thoughts?

Hey Tom
I looked @ them myself. Bolt pattern is off.

Seems to be a better head to use than a standard SBC style.

These fatory heads are even better.
http://www.proheads.com/WCCH%20L-92.html

My friend works on the AllPro heads that flow even more, over 400 CFM



MBHD

I saw this with the Pontiac SD four bangers used for racing. A company in Kansas made blocks that were beefed up factory design, but offered them with SB Chevy or stock head bolt patterns. The problem with swapping heads is getting bolts to align - either by changing the head or changing the block and (according to the Pontiac I saw) the block was easier. I think this makes sense because the head has the ports/valves/etc to work around where the block under the deck is mostly just open around the cylinders. On your layout, can you see what would happen if you wanted to drill and tap the block to accept the head pattern? There are companys that will weld the old holes shut so they are like original castings. You probably already thought of this, but it seems like few people know that GM and now Kansas Racing Products did a swap that is nearly what you are talking about. That four banger is very much like the 230-292 and even shares some parts.

I think this would be worth looking into! Since many of the factory LS heads are aluminum, they would be easier to saw and cut apart for the do-it-yourselfer, and welding them together would also be easier than a cast iron head. I've even seen the LS heads on ebay sell pretty inexpensively, sometimes as cheap as $100 a set complete. So I think its well worth looking at as a possible up and coming new alternative.

What about the 1.75 rockers?

I think making a jig or fixture to drill or mill the head to make it fit the block as opposed to modifying the block to make the head fit it, is a good idea as well. Many times there is more material around the bolt bosses in the head to offset the bolt considerably within getting into water. Plus, if you mess up its easier to fix the head than the block. I like how the valve cover fits on an LS style head, it would be real easy to fabbed one, once you got the individual head sections welded together.

The above post mentioning the Pontiac SD reminded me of a 2.5 litre hydro I saw about 20 years ago with an aluminum, crossflow, SD head on a Chevy 11 block. It looked like it belonged on it. No big gobs of goobers sealing up the pushrod side.

The heads would be hard to find now, but I'd bet they are still out there. Also, I just downloaded a picture of a 181 Longblock showing an 8 port head.

Although I'm certain that an LS style head would have superior airflow to a 20 year old SD head, the SD would certainly flow better than what we have, and should be a bolt on. Pontiac also sold an upgraded, over the counter 8 port with the casting number 347056 in iron.

greybeard,
the pontiac sd head will bolt on and 2 can be made into 1 inline 6 head. those are as rare as hens teeth and expensive. still need custom intake and exhaust.

the ls heads are cheap, plentiful and flow air like crazy. still need a custom intake, exhaust, side cover and block deck work and a custom cam.

i am still rolling over the idea. exhaust on drivers side, intake on passenger.

another problem is the water flow. these heads are designed as reverse flow. water to head then thru block. any ideas to keep it that way. of couse the inline way will work the easiest. tom

So do you think mounting a 250 style water neck on the front of the head would be necessary as well. I made some 250 water neck spacers for a guy on here, and already have the program, so I could create the cavity and bolt holes in a prototype head for you to see if thats a direction to go in also.

Like this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pontiac-s...207137007r34620
and
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pontiac-S...emZ190273781510

Looking closely, it appears they have spread the end head bolt holes for some reason. Below is a link to the Vortec 3000 engine[181cid]. The heads have 8 ports, 2.00" intake/ 1.60" exhaust valves, and the FI fittings are in the head. I don't have any idea about the complexities of building a 6 cylinder head from two, or the reliability of the welding processes, but this looks like a cleaner setup than the V8 hybreds heads and trying to seal them up.
http://www.gm.com/experience/technology/..._Industrial.pdf

Two things I remembered. First, the SD Pontiac required a specail cam when used with the SBC head becasue the valves are ordered differently, but this is possible. Second, one of my buddies needed a deck plate for an oddball tractor engine and gave BHJ a gasket and some specs and thay made a plate for about 800 bucks. That plate could be used to drill the block and align the heads when reassembled for welding and then used to hone the block. It would be an effort and cost a few for the first one, but after that it could be pretty affordable. Lots of things involved I guess, but that makes it more worth the doing.

one thing about the sd pontiac and the L92 ls heads. the valves are too big and will not clear a less than 4" bore. tom

IIRC,
Mike Kirby uses a 2.11 intake valve in a 3.901 bore,with his 12 port head.
The L-92 head has a 2.160" intake?
L-92 flow numbers. http://www.proheads.com/WCCH%20L-92.html
You could install smaller seats maybe in those heads?

All Pro heads flow up to 440 CFM! http://www.proheads.com/products.html


MBHD

I recently put a LS1 into my 48 chevy, so I have done quite a bit info lookups during the process of that project. There are a lot of different guys out there that are casting there own heads, being these guys are in the market to make a few bucks they even may consider the aspect of developing a said head. Also note that the LS head is a 15 degree head which is why you can put in some bigger valves in these heads. A Lot of the aftermarketeers also CNC these heads and are pushing over 300+ cfm on the intake side. It was brought up here about the IEIEIE valve lineup of the heads, Bill Mitchell just recently came out with a SBC/LS style head that will bolt onto the SBC/ Looking at the L92 head maybe a bit to big for something of the small bore unless you are looking for all out performance. For the aspect of testing ones theories of using an LS head there are tones of earlier stock LS1 series that most end up pulling off as most of the guys will go for the LS6 (243) castings, the earlier heads usually had 851 or 241 castings, the later 241 where also found on the LS2 motor. Also not that the runners are on an average of 210+cc on these style heads. Some of the truck engines like the 5.3 have shorter runners which are also popular upgrades to the LS motor to increase lowend tourque. Oh on another aspect if yoou have never handled one of these heads they are even considerable lighter than an aluminum sbc head.

i have 2 #853 heads on their way. they are from a camaro LS1 as you said.
head flows as stock
Stock 853 (Intake) 67 122 178 215 219 227 227
Stock 853 (Exhaust) 52 97 133 156 170 180 180

just going to check things out. if it don't then resell them. tom

Geometry!

What is the angle of of the stock 194 - 292 head?
I though it was less than 15 degrees,but I never measured it.


MBHD

I think its the same as the SBC...23 degrees! I kinda' lost track myself, its been a while.

Your assuming that the valves maximum width and centerline and the centerline of the cylinder bore are the same!

This is the point where I give up. We're not getting anywhere.

HUH???

SO?

that is the ratio the ls heads use. so the normal inline 6 cam lifts will be great. the cam is ground with the intake and exh lobes in the wrong place though. tom