Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected starting a new 65 elcamino drag project

Some of you will scoff at turning a rust free 65 elco into a drag car. But I have too many and can't haul the family in the one I drive. So here is the 2nd one.
Plan is to use the car without totally wrecking it for later street use. It is titled.

It is starting as a 64 roller i bought at a swapmeet with some nice stuff.
California body that is not straight.
great frame
front discs
it came with 2 12 bolts 65 and a 67
gutted







Changing the frame to a wagon frame to lighten the car, while also installing a roll bar for safety. the frame will get swapped out very soon.

bought some used fiberglass doors, and a 65 1 piece front clip. trying to make this as light as possible.

going to run a turbocharged inline 6 with a duggan 12 port head. fuel injected of course, to keep it fun. allready built a 12 bolt w/ spool and 3.73 w/ford bearings and moser axles.

need more ideas on how to lighten up the car without destroying it.

he wagon frame is the same dimensions but not boxed, just as you thought. i know it weakens the car, but the cage will add stiffness back to it.


other weight saving measures besides the unbolting options are:
aluminum calipers on front
alum master cyl
tubular front upper control arms
lexan side and rear windows, stock front windshield
fiberglass bumpers, doors, front clip
powerglide trans

i need ideas for a lite weight front lower control arm/spring package. this car will be lite in the front and wondering if a coil over would be a good choice to use.

and presenting the frame. it is a 67 station wagon frame. cost 100.00 to blast it and 116.00 to powder coat it. they do nice work! they had it done 3 days after i dropped it off.





here is the rundown for the frame/suspension.
rear suspension:
boxed GM lower conrol arms ( poly bushings)
UMI lower arm relocation brackets
edelbrock adjustable upper control arms
GM frame stiffeners ( between lower and upper arms)
Stock drum brakes ( no parking brake hardware)

front suspension:
SPC adjustable upper arms ( greasable joint)
stock lower arms
Globalwest Delrin bushings
lightening holes in lower control arms( drilled by me)
stock disc brakes
Wilwood aluminum calipers

For springs there are stockers for now. once car is assembled, then i will weigh it and order the appropriate weight springs.


frame is now installed! told my 8 yr old it would take about 1 hr to swap, he looked at me and said no way! had the old one out in about 20 minutes (body on hoist) and new one bolted in within the hr. we had a blast.




seats were bolted in last night. next it goes to my guy to get a roll cage installed. i know pics are coming. tom

Tom, since your list seems to have covered about all the lightening you can possibly do, how about a fuel cell, and since its a front steer chassis, how about putting a steering rack on it and take off the OEM steering box. Then you could also go with a race car style steering column as well. What is the target weight you are looking for. Just from your list of items, I'll bet it going to be pretty light.

Good job.
How about adding those adjustable control arms& other hop up stuff to your el camino that runs,,,so it will hook up???

Just a thought.

MBHD

Niiice.

What, no straight axle? (kidding)

cnc,
your correct, i am going to run a 10 gall fuel cell. have not thought about a rack though. hmmmm , the steering box, tie rods, centerlink, idler and standard colunm do add up to a bigger #.

hank, i want to keep my driver a driver. only a few more tweeks to the motor and i will try and call it good.

erik,
what's a straight axle? remember, i'm too young to run with that crowd, my mom says their nasty. tom

Tom
Would switching out the front springs for air bags work better plus save weight? You might give Chris Garlitz with the AirLift Co. a call he is in custom sales try 1-800-248-0892 or 1-517-322-2144. This should save you weight plus give adjustable height. I haven't talked with him in a while I hope these are still good numbers.

[quote=tlowe #1716]
hank, i want to keep my driver a driver. only a few more tweeks to the motor and i will try and call it good.

Adding those ajustable control arms does not make it a strip car only,you cannot tell you had them in your car as a daily driver.

It's good to hear you are going to build a fast car.


MBHD

It was a bit of a joke, and a reference to making it a 'gasser'.

Straight front axle, nose in the air, AFAIK though the inline crowd was never very 'big' on that stance.

hank, i drive my car on gravel, alot. the dust and rocks eat parts like that.

big bill, i may give that air stuff a look. the springs weigh alot.

erik,
i knew what you meant, just givin you a jab back.

What about cutting out the interior of the pickup bed? If you cut it leaving a 1/2" or so tab, it seems like it could be re-installed if the use changed to street. Tailgates are heavy... Eliminate or replace with aluminum fake? Inner fender wells front and rear?

Don't forget to fill the tires and glove box with helium...

Plasma cut all bumper supports. Like swiss cheese or other designs.


MBHD

doug,
like the helium idea. i may fill the frame too! don't want to cut up the body or box though. will gut the inner panels from the tailgate and the front wheel wells and all heater/ wiper stuff. even the glove box will be gutted. wait, that means i can't put helium in there.

hank,
like the cutting out of the brackets. it is on my to do list. tom

My friend got his 69 BB 383 Dart down to 2600 LBS maybe even a little less,, IIRC,, & it was all steel still & glass windows.

BB Mopar engines are heavy.

He only had the outer skins of the hood, trunk lid,etc.

The bumper brackets were really light & he still had steel bumpers.

Lightweight mitsubishi small alternator.

Motorplates & all. really a light car In my book,& if you looked @ the car from the outside ,,it looked to be all there.


MBHD

260 to blast and powder coat a frame.. wow around here thats a $700 bill just for the powdercoat!

Otay, good deal, I thought I had offended or something.

Not my intent.

Have your rollcage guy cut out the front crossmember and put in a tubular one, with a pinto rack. 75#.

Get rid of the tailgate and put in a piece of sheet metal/aluminum that approximates the outer shell curves. I don't know, but that's got to be close to 80#. I would also fab a sheet aluminum bed cover. They add alot of top end stability, and hide the nitrous bottle, battery and fuel cell in the bed.

Get a QA1 bolt in coilover conversion for the front. Lighter and way better hookup. Won't 68-72 stuff work for you?

Speedglass windows everywhere. You can run your windshield wipers on it, but I wouldn't. 50#.

10 gal fuel cell would be the next place to cut weight, but you start losing drivability real fast with small cells.

If you did only one of these, do the crossmember/rack. It will make the biggest difference at the track, and only help the steering response, along with making more room for the motor/oil pan.

oh, and can those stock rotors. Removing unsprung weight is 10x more effective than sprung weight, even on a drag car.

I also miss the edit function. Without a doubt gut the heater stuff and go to a race column.

Would torsion bars be lighter than air bags? Just a thought, and I don't know the answer. Maybe someone else does.

Removing unsprung weight is 10x more effective than sprung weight, even on a drag car

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/sprung.htm

Air bags with manual inflation weigh nearly nothing And with the proper shocks they work very well.

ok, i am following on the airbags. even checked on some.
how do i mount the bags with shocks?
on this car the shock goes thru the middle of the coil spring. i would like to use chevelle designed shocks as they fit well.
is there a airbag that is hollow in the middle? like a really tall donut? tom

Air Ride Technologies sells a bag over shock setup, they call them a 'shockwave'. I'm sure others sell them too, but I don't know who, or what they call them.

Bummer about the shockwave is it's kinda spendy, but if it's what you need.....

Tom contact Air Lift and ask for a crafters catalog it will give you the info you need normaly on a drag car you would relocate the shock. Companies do make a shock air combination but the will be more expensive and might be heavier. Most of them are designed to be street driven. If you convert to air bags with shocks mounted outside you are only talking a few pounds they weigh almost nothing. they also allow you to load one corner of the vehicle more than the other to help you maintain the best traction you can. You make brackets to mount shock between the A frame and the frame, very simple install just make sure that your spacing between mounting points is close to what it would be in the normal ride position of the installed shock usually near the center of the shock travel.

First of all, I should have said "like 10x" not exactly 10x, likes it's a scientific ratio or something.

But it still seems to me that a quicker reacting suspension would be just as important in a drag car as a road racer. Since the first 60 feet is the most important part of the track, and since this is where your suspension setup can make or break you, I will stand by my statement. Cars with real horsepower, that are tire-limited, invest in suspension.

Please take no offense if I find your argument not to be compelling, and instead hold to my original statement.
The linked page has been considerably shortened for clarity, and the underlying math re inertia and rotational forces removed since for engineers I'm "preaching to the choir" (they already understand, and find my repetition annoying and patronizing), and for novices it's merely boring numbers that do nothing to assist them.

Understood, I'm not here to fling poo, either. After re-reading the link, I can't find anything to argue with. Top speed and acceleration are not affected by unsprung weight, I completely agree. I was thinking in the context making the chassis work better for launch, etc, which I didn't specify in my post.

I agree that reducing the unsprung weight on (example) the rear axle will make the car launch better.

Of course, this will only really help cars that have problems now (enough power, but bad chassis reaction), and the problems are small enough that reducing only the wheel weight will give a better result (the axle alone is over 100 lbs., add the springs, shocks, drums, blah and taking 5 lbs. off each rim doesn't do that much).

It will also make controlling the front wheels more predictable - the spring rate can be selected for best weight transfer, rather than how much is needed to control the wheel bounce.

Unsprung weight is one of the few issues where the goal is absolute elimination: it's not possible, but anything you can do is an improvement (even if minimal or not cost effective).

Something it does do in a more practical waye is to disconnect the spring rate on a street car from devoting too much priority to forcing the wheel down after a bump - a big heavy wheel needs a big spring or it remains air-born after the bump, loses traction and upsets the car.
If the wheel weighed nothing (100% sprung) the spring would only have to hold the car up, and the ride quality would be much better - the wheel could dance over bumps without the chassis moving at all, and this is a big advantage to IRS.

AND YOU CAN FILL THEM WITH HELIUM!!
just kidding.
But I HIGHLY recommend sticking with Air Ride Technologies, you will be money ahead in the long run. I've had dealings with the other shysters.

I have replaced several frontends with aftermarkets units like fatmans, compition engineering and can tell you that you will knock off at least 200+lbs off compared to a stock front end especially where the crossmemeber in these cars is relatively huge. My 67C10 I knocked off over 300+lbs and did not modify to lighten, where as my 48 & 50 chevy coupes was closer to 200lbs due to the fact they didnt have very big crossmembers. The Fatman crossmember is 3/8 thick and can easily be modified by swiss cheesing it to cut even more weight. Aftermarket light weight rotors & calipers vs the ones they give you for even more weight savings. Of all the frontend kits I have installed I liked the Fatman much better for quality. Also note that if you are not cutting the car up bad enough that it cant be put back on the road afterwards that using a coilover suspension woould not be the way to go, small springs with heavy frontend weight just doesnt work and you would be better off with springs or possibly airbags. Just my presonally opinion is that I am not into air suspensions.

Just some more updates for you,

In July , had a chrome moly roll bar installed. It turned out nice, never can be too safe! Got some used JAZ seats, they are light!
Picked up some never used Strange Disc Brakes, they use a alum hub, small caliper and thin rotor. Not good for street use. Both sides weigh less than 1 of the old rotor / calipers!

Over the weekend picked up a used 10 gallon fuel cell, foam filled and a pair of later GM aluminum rear drums. More lite parts. Hope to work on it lots this winter after dynoing the 292. Tom