Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines Mercruiser 470 (3.7L 4 cyl) info?

Greetings all,

New member here with an oddball question.

I am considering the use of the mercruiser 470 engine as a base for a new racing project. This engine is an alloy block big 4 with a Ford 460 head. I noticed that one of the folks in the "Rides" section has one shown in a project truck(?).

anyway, I am having a devil of a time trying to get some genuine hard-core tech data on this engine and was hoping you folks might be able to steer me in the right direction. I would appreciate any insight into this engine and personal experiences you may want to share.

Any help?

Thanks,

Sven Pruett
vanirv6

There is a Clymer Stern Drive manual on e-Bay item# 2492024065 in e-Bay Motors. Includes 470 & various others from '64-'85. Early 460 non CJ wedge heads with exhaust port work (boss removed) and good 3-angle valve job using CJ valves used to work very well, altho I'm not familiar with the 4 cyl. There have been several aluminum high port heads as well, but I have'nt kept up on these for years.

Thanks for the response. I'm off to ebay! By some chance, do you happen to know how I can contact the fellow showing one of these in the "rides' section?

VANIRV6,
As I recollect those engines were OK in a boat but because they were huge in displacement for a four cylinder they had a tendency to shake your fillings out when installed in a car. In a boat all the surrounding water would tend to dampen their shaking. Now if you are building something like an F/Dragster where the vibrations are not really an issue then I would look at some of the aftermarket heads, like World or TFS. Good luck. By the way I'm in Monroe.

Thanks for the response! And you're "local"!!

The vibration issues I certainly understand (and expect) and I am prepared to deal with that. The good news is that this is aimed at a drag racing application. The more I learn about this engine, the more interesting it becomes. Certainly unique (and I like unique). Have you ever heard of Checker Marine in LaSalle? They claim to have about 20 of these engines in good mechanical condition and ready for rebuild. I am giving a lot of thought to picking up a few of them to start seriously studying.

Thanks!

Sven Pruett
vanirv6@aol.com

Also check the Ford SVE Performance Parts Catalog. I think they were listing the blocks in there. What kind of drag car are you building? Will I ever see it at Milan Dragway? You're probably closer to Lapeer or Ubley or Mid Mich.

A real good source of information on this engine, is Stuart (Sarge) Nichols, one of our late 6 tech advisors. Sarge and his son raced one and wrote a very good tech article in one of the early 12PN's. I'm picking up a block, crank and head this friday, just to get a closer look at one. This engine has LOTS of potential. Good luck, Arm

Flyer,

The blocks/parts available from Ford Racing are the Fontana parts and they are designed for the smallblock race heads as opposed to the big block (and pretty stinkin' expensive as well).

Currently, I have an 88 Mustang car running a nitrous injected 4.0L V-6 (www.vanirtech.com). We are still pretty new to the area and getting settled in our new home, but I hope to make some progress toward getting back on the track next season with my current setup. However, I am keen to try something new and this Mercruisae engine has caight my eye. At about 125 pounds lighter than my current combo and with comperable (and probably better) power potential, it sure looks interesting.

If I can manage to get my ducks in a row, Milan will probably be a "home" track. I'll certainly be looking for you!

Regards,

Sven Pruett
vanirv6@aol.com

Arm,

Thanks for that info. How would you feel about sharing notes as we go? I figure it's best to share in the insanity!

Any idea how I can identify the back issue that the article appeared in? I'd like to contact the Inliners folks for a copy if they are still available. I sure wouldn't mind a talk with Mr.Nichols if at all possible as well. Any idea if that is possible?

Thanks,

Sven Pruett
vanirv6@aol.com

I'm sure you can get just about any back issues we have back issues a good 20yrs plus. If we can find out what issue it was in. All we'd have to do is look it up To see if we still have some.If not I'm sure a memeber could make a copy or two Of them Pages for you. hope this helps }[oooooo]

Sarge is still listed as a tech advisor in the 12PN You can write him, as I do not have his PH#
Stuart (Sarge) Nichols,
1601 Jacobs St.
Ft. Smith, AR 72903

Insanity??!! That, my friend, is the name of the game around here! BTW are you a member? It would be a lot easier to get back issues and a guide to find tech articles. I'd be happy to swap ideas and findings.

Arm

Larry,

Thanks for the advice. I am very glad to hear that back issues are available and go back that far. Looks like I'm going on a mission very soon.

Regards,

Sven Pruett
vanirv6@aol.com

Arm,

Thanks for the contact infop for Mr. Nichols. I think I'll start by getting a back issue copy of his article so as not to make him repeat himself for no reason.

I am planning to send my membership application in this weekend. I contacted Jack Halton this afternoon and he was kind enough to send me the information. Hopefully, in a week or so I will be "official".

Thanks!

Sven Pruett
vanirv6@aol.com

All,

Can anyone here tell me what bellhousing pattern this engine has? I've been reading everything I can get my hands on and the "half a 460" references are abundant. However, there seems to be some possibility that the bellhousing pattern is something else. Anyone know?

Thanks,

Sven
vanirv6@aol.com

Sarge can tell you, it's in the article. I picked one up. Just a partial block, no rods, pistons, lifters or main bearing caps! AAARRRGGG!!! But it's a start and the price was OK. Huge cylinders. One of the aluminum aftermarket heads (or SVO) should really make one of these things fly!
Arm

Arm,

Did you happen to grab that pallet of parts back east on ebay last week? Seems like it was a block, crank, pan and a head for like $50 but you had to pick it up locally.

Sven

yep, That's the one. Only took a tank of gas up and another to get back. Had a good time hanging with friend's in Rhode Island. I wanted to get an idea of what one of these things looked like close up but didn't want to break the bank to do it. You want it?

What you see doesn't make you want to give up, does it (I sure hope not). I'd probably be interested if the stuff is useable. I really only have a need for the shortblock stuff since the production iron heads are of no real interest to me. Either way, shipping would still be a killer I expect. That's what originally turned me off to bidding when the shipping quote the fellow gave me was about $225!

In any case, what did you have in mind?

vanirv, how far away was that going to be shipped from?? Common carrier motor freight is about 25 to 30 dollars per hundred pounds - terminal to terminal. The seller straps it to a pallet and brings it to say their local trucking company terminal that goes to your area and when it gets to their terminal near you then you go pick it up. On the bill of lading you describe the item as "used motor vehicle parts, cores".

Most carriers will deliver to a final address but they charge more for that and you better have some way to get it off the truck like a forklift or another truck with a lift gate on it. If you can't get it off loaded it goes back to the terminal and you'll still have to pay the added charge.

Mike,

The shipping quote was $291.88 from Haverhill, MA to Lake Orion, MI and the weight was 300 lbs. That included a $50 private residence charge. The carrier providing the info to the seller was New England Motor Freight Company. I would have opted to save the $50 by picking up at the terminal, but the prospect of still havimng to pay $240 in shipping was too steep.

Let me break it into smaller pieces, block as one, crank as another, pan and rest. Pack them light but well and see how it looks. Shipping is always a problem and is why I drove to pick these up. Not shipping the head will help a lot. Arm

Wow van! Either a lot of weight or rates have gone through the roof in the last 18 months since I shipped by common carrier.

Too bad this wasn't back in August. 2 of us drove out to Waterford to do the Woodward Ave Dream Cruise. Might have been able to help you out.

Armond is a nice guy though. Maybe you can convince him to pay a visit to Tom Langdon and bring the engine with him???

All,

I just nailed down the bellhousing pattern on the engine. It's a small block Chevy with one bolt missing. That makes the swap quite easy since JW makes a bellhousing that will adapt the SBC to my C-4 auto. This is looking very nice!

FYI

I've got one. Ford only listed it one year in their SVO catalog. It seems they wanted Mercruiser to add a Ford logo to the block mold and they felt it was too much trouble. The bellhousing dowel pins line up with a SBC. About 3 bolt holes line up, too. I cut and welded a Lakewood housing. I also cut and moved the starter pocket, but it would be easier to just relieve it there. I think it clears an auto case as I have seen others. The crank flange is 289 Ford, as is the snout, but the engine is neutral balanced. I believe a Ford 250 6 cyl is same as 289 without balance weight. I ran a stick and because of the extended bellhousing flange on the engine, had to make a custom flywheel and added the pilot bearing to the flywheel. I have the two previous articles in 12 Port News from the racer with one. I also have the dealer parts manuals on the 470 and 488. I got my help from Innovative Technology who ran one in a dragster with a Boss head and a 1/4" stroker (cut the crank for BBC bearings). He also made my flywheel. As for motor mounts, I tilted the engine 10* since that was the tilt on the 288 4 bbl intake so I custom made the passenger side. I used a Chevy six cyl adapter for the driver side. If you mount it straight up, get both sides. They have a triangular pattern like the unused holes on the side of the block, but are narrower. Weld a strap to reach the wider holes. There is no thermostat as I ran a BBF bus exh. manifold and the stock thermostat is in the marine exhaust housing so I bought a 488 thermostat housing, which has a relief for the thermostat, and added a Cosworth Vega thermostat housing to it to make an inline thermostat. I used that housing as it is 1-1/4", same as the outlet in the head while SBC is 1-1/2". There are probably newer 1-1/4" housings out now. And I think Renault has an inline thermostat housing also. You will have to elongate the bolt holes slightly to match the two housings. For the other hose, I found a Honda? hose to go from the rear of the intake forward and added a SS pipe to reach the radiator. I'll check here more often if I can help. If you want a package of info send your name and address, my e mail is Phil1934@att.net

Phil,

Thanks for sharing that info! I would definitely be interested in that packet of information you have I will follow up with my mailing address in an e-mail.

As it looks, much of the issues you ran into with running a manual trans I may possibly avoid going to an auto. The conversion bellhousings I have found look like they will offer quite a bit of clearance for starter drives, etc.

What part numbers do you have on the parts manuals? Mercury doesn't want to sell me one unless I have an engine serial number. However, if I know the part number of the manuals I want, they will send one right out!

The thermostat isn't an issue in my case as for racing, we just use water restrictors and they can be rather conveniently located. Simple is good in my case.

Thanks for sharing your experience. The more I learn about the engine, the more I think I'm going to like it.

Regards,

Sven Pruett
vanirv6@aol.com

Arm,

Did you happen to give anymore thought to letting loose of your parts?

Thanks!

Sven Pruett
vanirv6@aol.com

Sven, I'd love to lighten the load around here, Just waiting till you find a local Fedex pick up point. Thanks, Arm