#52675 - 10/07/09 04:02 PM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: CNC-Dude #5585]
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russk
Active BB Member
Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 75
Loc: Southern Oregon
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CNC-Dude (and Tom):
Have you considered doing a "walk through" with the dyno call team of a representative head and cam change (say) a week prior to the actual event? Doing so will point up some of those "gotchas" that you'd like to avoid at $50/hour. You know the old saying: "the devil is in the details" so it's likely it will be the small things that will be the cause of any trouble you encounter. You'll also get a feel for what kind of time you can expect to perform the typical component swap(s) and that should be valuable when planning the test schedule. Finally, you may see additional or further ways you can "pre-assemble" some of the swap components (beyond those you've already discussed in this thread) to help save some time.
Of course, Murphy's Law (and its corollaries) will be in effect:
1) Everything that can go wrong, will go wrong.
2) Nothing is as simple as it seems.
3) Everything takes longer than it should.
It would be nice if Murphy had some prior engagement and couldn't attend the dyno session. With all the hard work and planning your team is doing, I'm guessing #1 above will be avoided. But #2 and #3, that's a different story . . .
In any event, you guys are doing an outstanding job and I can't wait to see the outcome of all the hard work, great ideas and contributions that have gone into this project.
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#52683 - 10/07/09 11:57 PM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: Sam Welch]
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Nexxussian
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Registered: 06/12/07
Posts: 1336
Loc: Anchorage
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#52684 - 10/08/09 02:38 AM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: Nexxussian]
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tlowe #1716
12 PORT ADVERTISER
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Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 2333
Loc: Dysart, Iowa
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There is most definately a 2 piece front cover. Without that, cam changes would be very painfull. Still bad enough having to pull the balancer.
One other thing needed to work on is setting the valve lash quickly. Anyone have a special trick they use?
Tom
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#52685 - 10/08/09 04:18 AM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: tlowe #1716]
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67 Bowtie
Active BB Member
Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 43
Loc: NH
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I not sure if poly locks would be quicker than the stock rocker nuts, but as far as adjustment goes I have always done mine 1 valve at a time and with 1 guy turning the motor over it shouldn't take but a couple minutes adjusting valves.
Other suggestions:
put a petcock in the block drain with hose for quicker draining of the block when ready to do head swap.
I just reread through the entire post and saw that you intend to run an after market balancer if the crank is drilled for a harmonic balancer bolt, you could hone an old harmonic balancer so that it will just slip on & off by hand. It might also be nice to see if there is any gain by the aftermarket balancer.
Possible couple other tasks,
Often I hear so much about these Edelbrock carbs and how people claim they are so much better, personally I dont think they so and neither does my local Dyno guy as he usually gets another 6+hp with a holley type carb, it would be nice to see a apples to apples swap of a holley vs edelbrock if time prevails.
You are getting a DUI distributor and it will be ?? recurved, it would be nice to see a stock HEI distibutor in there as well to campare that against it.
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#52687 - 10/08/09 09:48 AM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: Nexxussian]
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CNC-Dude #5585
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Registered: 09/27/08
Posts: 1743
Loc: N. Georgia
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CNC, I would like to believe that the 'comunity' as a whole would take notice, but there wasn't even a peep (that I saw) after the whole 'six appeal' and <8 series in Car Craft (about 10 years ago I think). 
Nex, unfortunately it seems that ever since the V8 became so strong a contender in the automotive market back in the 50's, that the inlines have just about all but been forgotten. People seem to forget that there were racers setting records with inlines and accomplishing great feats of performance long before the V8's began to dominate the industry. And still today, there are quite a few people continuing to do incredible things with inlines. Even the vintage Stovebolts and GMC engines have some impressive records at Bonneville today still. Several of the guys in Brazil that are using turbos as big as basketballs have even taken these engines to an ever increasing higher level of HP and technology, and need to be recognized also. And its too bad that there has been too many generations of automotive enthusiasts that have grown up since the 50's, that have not even been aware of what has been going on in the inline community since then and the achievments that have been reached by the few that still carry on with them. Its almost like there are (2) different parallel universes in the automotive realm, one that covers all the modern V-stuff and sport compacts and has unlimited literature printed monthly about it, and then the inline 6's universe that no on wants to talk about and has basically had very little coverage in the past 50's years. I doubt we will win any converts over to the inline way of thinking with this magazine coverage, but at least it will be out there in print, and people will have to read past it to get to the rest of the magazine they are interested in. Im sure some percentage of that mags readership will appreciate seeing it featured, and find the dyno results something they always were curious about themelves, perhaps. I think that was what peaked my friend and magazine editor, Rob Kinnan's, interest so much, was it actually will have real data attached to it. Even the previous articles back several years ago of Kirby/Sissell in his magazine, didn't give any before and after results of any parts, or anything you expect to see in a typical engine article. It just had a few pictures and said very little about what to do to modify your inline 6. He told me, you can throw head flow #'s out there all day long, and cam specs and this and that, but with no dyno testing...there is no payoff! Readers want to see the bottom line, or you will loose their interest, he also added. At least, we as a group of inliners will be content to know, that there are those that are still forging ahead with these engines and making a mark of some kind to be helpful and to benefit others who share the same interests.
_________________________
There's no such thing as too much cam....only not enough engine!
12 Port Head Manufacturer
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#52718 - 10/09/09 07:13 PM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: strokersix]
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tlowe #1716
12 PORT ADVERTISER
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Registered: 04/01/04
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Loc: Dysart, Iowa
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Stroker,
Got the head lifting bracket today. Way nice! That is really going to help exchanging hot heads.
Today also recieved the 5 timing gear sets from Cloyes that were asked for. Boy did they come thru. DUI said the dist is on it's way. Got a busy weekend planned working on 6's.
One other thing to add into the mix. I have the head from my old 292 that was a 4bbl setup. Well I had a 1.94 valved high compression 194 head on it. Pulled it off last night, tomorrow will lump port it and relieve the chambers for better flow with those bigger intake valves. Will probably run it on the 2 biggest cams. Tom
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#52728 - 10/10/09 01:57 PM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: efi-diy]
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tlowe #1716
12 PORT ADVERTISER
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Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 2333
Loc: Dysart, Iowa
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EFI,
The dyno days are scheduled for Nov 7th and 8th. Tom
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#52731 - 10/10/09 04:06 PM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: jalopy45 #4899]
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tlowe #1716
12 PORT ADVERTISER
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Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 2333
Loc: Dysart, Iowa
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I do have some people designated for video and for photograghy. Some even for refreshments!
What total of combinations do you mean? Heads, cams ect or total cost? Tom
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#52740 - 10/11/09 06:04 AM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: Armond, II#298]
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tlowe #1716
12 PORT ADVERTISER
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Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 2333
Loc: Dysart, Iowa
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Hank,
I had thought about the 194 high comp head long ago. But was reluctant because of the additional work to pull head, tear down, and then do all the nessecary machine work to bring it up to standards needed. But I am doing it and with more costs and work not wanted right now.
Armond,
This is indeed a worth while endeavor for me and much will be gained ( I hope)for others to clarify what really works. Same that is done for V8 monthly in the mags and tracks. You are correct and optimizing each setup will take some time. But once a good timing value is found it will likely stay the same for most head/cam setups. Fuel mixture will need to be set for the 2 different carbs and then hopefully close for the remaining pulls. But still may need to be adjusted. It would be much harder to do this in a street car as far as setting up carbs. Tom
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#52741 - 10/11/09 07:52 AM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: tlowe #1716]
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Joe H
Active BB Member
Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 163
Loc: Lee's Summit Missouri
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By not changing the set up for each test, you are showing what each part actually does, and since most people don't bother with fine tuning anyway, it will be a real test of true bolt on parts.
For this type of mad dash, close on timing and mixture will be good enough. The few extra hp of fine tuning wouldn't be worth chasing in the time that you have.
You have to something for each builder to do!
Good luck with the tests, Joe.
Edited by Joe H (10/11/09 07:53 AM)
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#52763 - 10/13/09 10:11 AM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: tlowe #1716]
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mitch pankey
Active BB Member
Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 11
Loc: tn
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hello i am new . I am a tractor puller who has some interest in a 292 build. I logged on here to ask a question has anyone heard of a massey ferguson rod being utilized in a 292. I have a source that told me that it was one of jim headricks tricks that was used in cotton perrys engines . I would like to know which engine the rod came from the smallest masseys used a 1.5 rod journal and the next up used a 1.97 rod journal.
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#52773 - 10/13/09 12:39 PM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: CNC-Dude #5585]
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mitch pankey
Active BB Member
Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 11
Loc: tn
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wheres this dyno run going to be located. cnc dude you wouldnt be familiar with a t bucket that went by teachers pet years ago would you .
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#52777 - 10/13/09 02:42 PM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: CNC-Dude #5585]
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mitch pankey
Active BB Member
Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 11
Loc: tn
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ok i give who are you . i thought you may have been phil lea thats why i asked about the teachers pet.
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#52778 - 10/13/09 02:57 PM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: mitch pankey]
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tlowe #1716
12 PORT ADVERTISER
Active BB Member
Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 2333
Loc: Dysart, Iowa
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Again, I would like to thank all for the support so far.
Got donated parts now from:
DUI HEI dist and wires
Cloyes 5 timing gear sets
Felpro 6 head gaskets and numerous other engine gaskets
Langdons stovebolt side covers
Offenhouser Valve cover
and more stuff to come.
Woody ,
You put it right that I am busier than a 1 handed paper hanger. Now that made me laugh! Always did wish I had 4 arms though. My wife thinks I am nuts, she is probably right as ussual.
Mitch, The shop is in Dysart, Iowa and is within a few miles of my home.
Again, thanks to all for the support and encouragement. Still listening for ideas. My ears are open! Nothing is discounted. Tom
Edited by tlowe #1716 (10/13/09 03:02 PM)
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#52779 - 10/13/09 03:14 PM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: tlowe #1716]
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mitch pankey
Active BB Member
Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 11
Loc: tn
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after i get finished with my four cylinder up grade. A allis chalmers 226ci 65 horse 8.1 factory (4x4.5). massaged out to(4.625x5.77) 388ci and 15.2.1 compression . i will either be in the market or doing a 292 buildup . I am after 400hp and 400 ftlbs from 5200 to 7grand before it bowes its head is this feasable
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#52782 - 10/13/09 05:10 PM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: CNC-Dude #5585]
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mitch pankey
Active BB Member
Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 11
Loc: tn
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not knowing who i am talking to this close to my stomping grounds is working on me. do you own a dirt track speedway . you do know that phil takes credit for the aluminum rods .
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#52783 - 10/13/09 05:26 PM
Re: Dyno day for a 292, Need help
[Re: mitch pankey]
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mitch pankey
Active BB Member
Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 11
Loc: tn
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tlowe i appologise for hijacking youre post . cnc dude is in my back yard so to speak and last year i talked with ronnie and he told me to talk with self . so i called self got some numbers just havent did anything yet . tlowe i didnt see any of ron iskyderains products he has been helpfull with a regrind for my puller.
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