Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance Dyno day for a 292, Need help

Hey Woody
As a one time Poster an Non Paying Free Loader How about taking a Walk HOWs That for being Rude for ya.
JUst My vented 2cents worth.
Just a Lot of times some of US get feed up answering the same things OVER AND OVER. When some people are just to lazy to do a search.

And now for another 2cent comment. If the cams are not degreed
There is No fair testing to any of it. And to do so we/you eat up a lot of time. AND You can't say well This Or that Is Junk ,And find out the issue was a vacum Leak Or something of that nature.So all this rushing can basicaly give a Good Base line on things But NOT 100% And as I have seen Some stuff in most mags Seem so far out there or off it's not funny. But merly best to maybe?? taken with a Grain of salt.

But anyway Best off Luck with the Apples to Apples.
Vented my 2 cents

To all,

Been gone to a 2 day class for work, missed alot of fun here. Glad to see new/ more people posting , too.

I also took Hank's comment alittle on the bad side. Even went out and PM'ed him about it, then we have Pm'd back and forth about them. All seems to be ok.

Saying this, Woody's comment was alittle brash, but he was stating his opinion, we all have one of them don't we? If you have a problem with someone PM them and or report to the MODS, or do as Ken said , ignore their posts..

This engine test is a one of a kind to be done. Tell me someone else who has done, shared, published results? Didn't think there was . The testing will prove alot for the inline 292 world. I have also degreed in cams, for sbc and these inlines. How many cams have I found to be wrong? Zero, none! Not saying there could not be a problem, just doubtful.

True, we won't squeeze 100% out of every combo, but bet will be within 2-3%, so that does not mean anything? Yes it will. Also not trying to say anything is junk, just trying to get proven combos.

I personally enjoy helping people with their problems. And am not bothered by even little questions, we all started out somewhere. Maybe my fuse is a lot longer than others. Tom

P.S. Having used the search engine many times, it works like **ap. Maybe I just don't get it, sometimes known to be slow, you know. Tom

Yes, it's like Tom says! The test, the questions, and especially the search engine. Lets get back to the business at hand which just happens to be at the crux of why we all come here. It's our deep interest in these engines and our desire to exchange information with others. We are not required to read every post, answer every question, or one up each perceived insult. This is too good to blow over personality imperfections! Beater

DITTO

When tlowe and myself first concieved this idea back in July, our first and only purpose and intention with this testing, was to solve the age old questions.....what works and what doesn't, and share it with our fellow Inliners! There is no one on this planet that you can call that will tell you what kind of power #'s any of these components will make in these engines, not even the people that sell them. They can tell you what there computer simulation says....or their best guess....but no actual verified data. Thats because no one before has ever taken the time or expense to research these answers and actually do it. The spoils of this testing goes beyond just the people here on Inliners, but also the companies whose components are going to be represented will also reap many benefits as well. Now, they will be able to intelligently make better product recommendations for other inline enthusiasts how are seeking their guidance, because they will have more baseline info to draw from. And the good thing is that everyone here was given a backstage pass to see all the unfoldings of this before anyone else was given the opportunity to be included.....

I can see that some naysayers are finally starting to show up to the party. This isn't my first rodeo, or tlowe's either. The same opportunities that have been offered to us for this magazine deal, are there for anyone....jump on in, the waters just fine! Peace out...

Now that gas prices and home price have equaled our inlines will appeal to many more. It's a fact of life, money (or lack ) drives a large portion of the masses. A smaller, more efficient six could very well be the best choice for someone who isn't a die hard six fan. I think these test will open many eyes. Besides, they sound soooo good!

Tom seeing that you are wanting to QUOTE me. In the last 30 some plus years of building engines I have come across more then a dozen or so cams that have been Off Of what the cam card calls for.Which when you think about it That is bad at all. All I was saying Is things should be CHECK. In a Perfect World Which it is not Things do not always go to plain No matter how well they are laid out. And as to naysayers WHAT's up with that??(I can see that some naysayers are finally starting to show up to the party. This isn't my first rodeo, or tlowe's either. The same opportunities that have been offered to us for this magazine deal, are there for anyone....jump on in, the waters just fine! Peace out... )

Tom
Honestly I hope that everything goes go as Plained. I wasn't trying to bash what your trying to do.

Larry, it might not have been your intention, and its understandable that you needed to address the comment that woody made. It just seems your mood from handling that, might have bled over into your comments that appeared to kinda' take a jab at the efforts of this project in regard to most mags having inaccurate info, and the info being taken with a grain of salt that you read in them. Almost, like you were trying to discredit what it is going to say before its even printed. Again, might not have been your intention, but it just appeared to several of us that the woody comment, and the magazine comments didn't really fit together in the same post, and made us wonder how they came out being connected in the same tone like that. Thats all...

T6,
No harm done and you are correct, things can happen to screw everything up. I am sure trying to keep that bad thing away. This weekend cams are getting checked, as well as a great TDC indicator and then it is off to be bolted in and test run. This will all be done well ahead of the actual dyno day.

To all,
As of today 21 gracious people have donated a total of 925.00 hard earned dollars. What a relief to me, I was planning on paying for this myself and paying for it by doing extra rearend work. Still have lots to do and am going back out to the shop. Later. Tom

TLowe and CNC-Dude:

I was wondering if you were going to include "weather data" as part of each combination description and resulting dyno graphs that will be published. I'm thinking of the basic things like temperature, pressure, water grains, and the resulting corrected altitude. Given that the tests will be run over a two day period, there could be a significant change in the conditions that will certainly have an affect the results. Knowing what environmental changes were in play from the test of one combination to another will help us (and the magazine readers) put the performance "deltas" into a little more accurate perspective.

However, if the dyno pull data (tables and graphs) are normalized to account for environmental differences, that would be great and that bit of information might be worth noting in the part of the article where you describe the testing equipment, environment, and such.

Just another (probably obvious and already covered) thought . . .

That is a good point russk. Some dynos like Superflow have weather stations to compensate for altitude and weather conditions. Im pretty sure the dyno Tom will be using should also be equipped with a similar package. It will also be pretty cool in Iowa in November too, so that should make some pretty good power #'s as long as there not a lot of moisture in the air. Tom, any idea what the altitude is there in Dysart....

Guys like Larry are lucky to live close to sea level there in Florida where the air is good. They make more HP down there.

Tom,

Just picked up a money order, so it'll be going out today or tomorrow. So, add another $30 to the pot of contributions.

I just had to get in on this, I'm so excited for this dyno test.

-Sam.

CNC-Dude:

In the "Great Northwest" (Southern Oregon on Agency Lake at 4,200 feet specifically) we have an old saying about the weather: "If you don't like the weather [now], just wait an hour . . .".

And that's the real truth. We can have a ridge of high pressure in place and then have a low pressure trough blow in (typically from the south and west) and the barometric pressure will drop like a rock in a matter of a couple of hours. With attendant changes in moisture and temperature, we can see our corrected altitude move my more that 1500 feet! That can sure impact the performance of a naturally aspirated (non-EFI) engine running on pump gas!

PS: The one offset we have to these local conditions is all the good oxygen put off by our forests. NHRA crew chiefs say they actually have to take that into account when racing at Seattle.

Russk, thats interesting. I just checked on Google Earth and saw that Dysart averages around 950-975 ft. of elevation.

Yes i should not have stuck it all in one topic/comment.
Honestly Guys Sorry.And Yes being at sea level can Make alot of difference in many thing.

Larry, we know you didn't purposely do it. Just looking at the post, I figured that was probably what happened. No sweat, were all friends here, so lets move on....

CNC-Dude:

Wow! Dysart at 950-975 feet. Given some cool, dry air and a big ridge of high pressure and you guys may just blow up the dyno. Well maybe not but you should get some impressive numbers all the same.

Russ, im just hoping it will inspire or stir others to become involved in doing more inline oriented magazine articles. These inlines have been overlooked for ages, and it seems like we are the only ones who recognize their potential, and appreciate them. Who knows, maybe one day the interest will grow so large that you will be able to buy an Inline only magazine of the rack, and it not be a Sport Compact type of inline either.

Russ,
We may shake some dust up for sure. Mainly because of the good cleaning the dyno room will get for pics!

The funny thing is the speed shop is downtown and surrounded by girly type stores. They don't like it alot when big V8's are run on weekends as they make quite a racket. They will hear this and think what the hey is that! Tom

Make sure to get some good sound bites. That would be a good ring tone for our phones so we could recognize each other as Inliners!

Thats funny....

Remember the old 8 track tapes you could buy that had engine sounds on them....You could even make a message for your answering machine with it revving up in the background. The possibilities are endless....

Weather Corrections:
I totally agree on the comments -
Ideally it is best to have both the raw uncorrected dyno numbers *and* the numbers corrected to SAE gross [open exhaust, no air cleaner or base only, 60F 29.92 dry air into the carb, no accessories except water pump].

I sent Tom a PDF of some Gonkulator computer predictions, from the stock 166hp 292 to Tom's base run (4v and headers) of 193hp, best run at 305hp along with many other planned runs. Just computer predictions so we will see how good they are with this rare 292 dyno series!

In my planned 63 Nova, 200-4r and 3.25 9" rear, this took the car from a computed
16.32 at 80.5 (stock 292) to
14.19 at 95.5 (301cid, 305hp, max planned dyno run).

These did not include the high-compression super-ported head discussed later here in the thread. That should do even better.

As a last suggestion, perhaps repeat an early run near the end of the dyno set to see if the engine (or dyno) is getting tired. This happened during the very useful "Intake Comparo" over on the Ford FE site - so the dyno comparisons had to be either corrected or rerun to account for the engine/dyno changes. A repeat run would help assure this did not happen.

Wow, like everyone else, I can't wait for the results.

Something else I see no one has brought up. And that is push rod lenght Issue That can come about When swapping cams as well,Just like valve lenght also comes into play with Push rods.Which can also lead into swap time on the dyno.

Larry, that is a very good point. I can't recall discussing this with Tom as of yet. Thanks for pointing this out. Scott

For sure with that variety of cams and heads there could be more than the adjusters can handle to keep things aligned.

Guy's,
Here is a status update,
Been working on lots of heads.
Cleaned all heads to be used.
Decarboned a stock head and put in new springs
Same to another stock head and then gave it a lump job with alittle cleanup in the valve bowls.

Have a newly done 1.84, 1.94 (both 70CC) and a 1.94 (62CC) lump heads also ready.

Got cams all ready along with the headers and intakes. Other things include Motor mounts, throttle cable, added a WBO2 sensor gauge to the dyno.

Have a pushrod length checker and that will be next, in case pushrods need to be ordered. Later Tom

Awesome Tom!

This whole process will be interesting.

I will definately buy the magazine the article will be published in.

MBHD

Samwise68,
Got it yesterday! Thankyou! Did you get my return email?

If there is anyone that has not recieved a email that should , please PM me, with your email.

Hank,
Hope everything turns out as planned, all counted up there is 20 tests, atleast for now. Then there is that pesky article to coordinate.

Back out to the shop! Tom

Tom,

Just checked my e-mail. Got it, and a reply is on it's way to you.

-Sam.

Tom

Don't know what lift cams you plain on testing Or pusg rod Dia. But anyway there can also be push rod to head clearance issues depending on Dia. & lift. even if useing guide plates. Just more food for thought.

Hank maybe if the magazine sells well they'll make a movie of it! Who do you think they'll get to play Tom? Anthony Hopkins? "The Worlds Fastest Head Changer"
Tom, You are amazing! I hope you're getting help. I mean with the project. Beater

Or, you could send in a series of articles to Wanda Kincaid for the club publication, 12 Port News.

Now that would be OUTSTANDING!!!!

How's it going Tom? Anything we can do?

Guy's,
just came in for supper. Whew! Have I been busy. Had a fellow inliner and son over helping with stuff. The whole deal is coming together.
Did find a snafu. The Cloyes timing set steel lower gear has no bolt holes to remove it with a puller? The old GM had holes. Will contact Cloyes and see if they can remedy this.

Going back out to the shop! Tom

P.S. The wife left me today, I am stuck with 3 kids! With a chore list! She won't be back till Wed night. Went to a seminar, don't worry.

If you wish, send the timing gears to me and I'll put some puller holes in them.

Tom, you use a bearing puller, similar to what you would use to pull a carrier bearing off a rear end with. It is thin enough to fit between the front main and the gear.

Fixed the timing gear this morning. Drilled and tapped it on the mill. At first, thought it would be a hardened part and therefor be unwilling to be threaded.

Back at it tonight. Tom

I forgot & too lazy to search,,when is the dyno session?

Thanks

MBHD

Nov. 7tb. and 8th. Tom sent us emails with schedule of parts swaps and it looks good!!