Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance Dyno day for a 292, Need help

jalopy, I like the sound of "us" in your post! Like we're really a part of this. "We" need T-shits that have a picture of Tom and the 292 and says "WE HELPED" I'll buy one.

beater,
I like the T shirt idea!

I have a few more things/ideas to try if time allows. It is all coming together. It will be an exciting 2 days! Tom

Tom, Don't let "us" distract you. There's plenty of time for dress-up when you're done. We'll be proud to claim a small piece involvement. We'll be hot dogs at our local Inliners meetings! Beater

Been wrenching like crazy! Fitting and testing, fitting and testing. Getting all the correct easiest to use hardware everywhere. Busy, busy, busy.

Again THANKYOU to all that have donated your hard earned money toward this.
Also a BIG hats off to fellow inliner Don Schnauber to spend 2 Full days helping me and having to drive 2 hrs each way. His expertise with machining was a blessing.

P.S. Another lesson learned, when using a 230-250 camshaft in a 292. You will need to remove the fuel pump lobe in a lathe. It will contact a rod.

Drilled all the cam snouts for a 7/16 bolt hole. Going to use a Long threaded bolt to help align cams. When using the Clifford front cover, it allows you no room for your fingers to go around the gear. Clifford front cover does not fit without sanding near waterpump area and also sanded the edge of waterpump.

Pulleys are all setup for proper belt alignment with only a crank and WP pulley, no idler. Later Tom
Had a small snafu with the dist shaft. It is a 2 piece design and had way to tight of a fit between the 2 shafts.

P.S. Another lesson learned, when using a 230-250 camshaft in a 292. You will need to remove the fuel pump lobe in a lathe. It will contact a rod.

What rods are you using?

Stock rods, It just has a big stroke. Tom

Thats why the fuel pump location on the 292 was moved, and the motor mount location on that side of the block is different than a 194-250 block. On the long stroke 292, the connecting rod hits the eccentric on the camshaft, and the engineers had to redesign those locations for the 292.

Also be careful when buying new or used inline cams for these engines, because the 292 is different than the 194-250's in that regard. They are application specific for 292's and 194-250 engines.

I'd never heard that there was a clearance problem only that you had to use an electric fuel pump. Thanks, my cam is for a 194-250. Tom

CNC Dude,

I understand the difference between 250 and 292 cams due to the fuel pump lobe, but what about grind characteristics? Will a 250 cam and 292 cam, designed for a similar application (hi-torque etc.), have different duration and lift figures due to the different stroke/cid?

Removing a lobe is easy on a used cam, but I'd like to know if other characteristics make a 250 cam not a good choice for a 292.

Thanks,

Dave

A cam for a 292 will seem bigger in a 250. an 250 cam will seem smaller in the 292.Also the cams for the 292 are clearanced for the rods.

Hi Dave,
As Twisted6 has pointed out, this comparison is similar to putting a camshaft ground for a 400 SBC into a 283. It would appear mild in the 400, but it would most likely be too radical for the 283. Back when Cam Dynamics was around back in the early 1980's, they and other cam companies seemed to offer camshafts more specific for these engines individually. But, unfortunately, as time has moved on, most cam companies seem to have fallen into the "one cam fits all" selection as far as grinds go for these engines. So, yes I would look to going with a custom grind for the 292 if the specs appear to be more 194-250 oriented. Most cam grinders will gladly accomodate this for you if needed if they have the cores available that aren't already ground to finish specs. If you are going with a hydraulic or solid roller, then you have the option to put any grind on the billet you choose to, since they start out as round lobe blank.

Larry is right the 292 cam is also clearanced for the rods to travel past it. In 6 locations. You can also do this, I did with a grinder, did not get to use my favorite tool this time (sawzall).
If anyone looks in lets say the Competition cams catalog (online). You will see that a High Energy grind for either a 250 or 292 use the exact same specification for the lobes lift and duration. Where it gets different is when the cubic inch's of the engine come into play. As Larry and CNC said, a cam that seems big in a 250 will seem smaller in a 292. Back to work. Tom

Tom: I'm late in sending my check, but hope you can still use it. My email address is jimrj@aol.com. Good luck this weekend. Jim

Jim,
You are not too late. Thankyou .

I do have more money involved than the dyno charges, but that was expected by me. The help you guy's are giving is a huge relief and allowing this to go much smoother.

Was out in the shop early this morn and will be back at it tonight. Tom

Thanks for doing this. Much appreciated. I'm awaiting results before I purchase camshaft for my 292.

Thanks George,

Just got back in from shop. Got a 250 cam converted to clear the 292. Just takes some simple grinding. 12 spots worth!

Engine is all mounted up on dyno and hope to fire it on Thurs. Had to get some exhaust pieces as they have only ever done the Vthings. Engine fit nice with Sarge Nichols and Daves motor mount bracket as sold in the classifieds. Bolts right into the V*8 saddles. We mounted the motor slightly crooked so cam changes will be easier. Also had to move the water column from right side of dyno to left for the cam changes. Exhaust temp sensors, oil amd water are all hooked up. Goodnight. tom

GoodNight indeed Tom. You are a dynamo!

Yes, What Sam said!!!!

Found a small snafu when putting the Clifford 2 piece timing cover on. Pulled the timing cover from the 292 being used. Found the timing gear slid out on the cam! In fact , slid it off with my hands! Anyway, pulled cam and inspected, all looked well. Installed a new gear and will be reusing this cam during the runs.

Always drill and tap the crank gear for 2 3/8 bolts, it will aid at a later date when pulling the crank gear.

Hope to have it running tonight, the snafu slowed me down. Keep your fingers crossed. Tom

Did you ever heat the gear before installing it?? If not it will come off again.Esp a ALUM gear. Also it is better to mech. fasten
it to the cam.Yes there is a set-up available which only takes a small dimple in the cover. Unlike the Other that is out there that needs a Freeze plug welded to the cover to clear.

This was a gear that was not installed by me. I installed the new one this time.

Engine not running yet, dyno throttle cable will not clear valve cover, having to turn carb and the adaptor is not cooperating. tom

Good luck Tom I hope you win the fight with all those parts and cables.
One last computer prediction, not included in the set I sent you.
Max hp for the 70cc lump head at 8.8cr, biggest cam and Cliff intake, predicted at 305hp.
Same head only 62cc gave me 9.43cr, computed to
Torq 328 at 4000
Powr 313 at 5400
Who knows, maybe more depending on the head flows.
Can't wait for the results I hope you get to do all or even most of the planned tests.

Going to get a earlier start on it on Fri afternoon.

Got the 1st cam installed and ready to drop dist. Once carb is on, will hit the go button for the 1st time. Then get ready for the long weekend.

Have a few extra tests to be tried, all flow related. Hopefully will learn some good stuff.

Plenty of local Inliners and gearheads are going to be helping, infact at times it may get real crowded.

Wife still thinks I'm nuts. Tom

Tom - you show me someone who has accomplished something noteworthy and I'll show you someone who is a certified nut.

It'll be interesting if the 292 in its hottest form will match HP with what my 8.2:1 4200 did NA with the stock exhaust manifold..... despite have 40 ci more to work with...

I think the 292 will do better torque wise....

Let us know which magazine is considering running the test. I just want to make sure my subscription is current and don't miss it.

Ok, we'll keep everyone posted on the magazine article and dates for printing.

Tom, let me know if there is anything else I need to send to you Next Day Air on Friday with the package im already sending to you.

Good luck.

Be safe.

"Wrenchers take your marks. get ready....". or is it, "Gentlemen start your wrenches"? At any rate I hope all goes well and not matter what we'll learn something. Just building an engine that handles this is an accomplishment! Be sure to keep the cameras rolling! Beater

Tom, CNC-Dude, and others:

Just wanted to wish you all great success over the weekend. I know a lot [!] of planning and hard work has been done by a number of Inliners to prepare and I have no doubt that will pay off big time.

Besides, I have it on good authority that "Murphy" will be in Washington DC all weekend to help Congress with the health care bill so things should go reasonably well in the dyno cell.

Good luck and I'll look forward to hearing about the results.

Russ

Yes it will be interesting.

What was your HP w/the lowered compression 4.2?

Mike K, w/his very mild 250 & his 12 port head made 300 HP.

MBHD

Just talked to Tom and they had the engine running on the Dyno with the stock cam and a lump head and got over 200 horses. You could tell that Tom was smiling from ear to ear. The Clan is gathering and they are getting ready for tomorrow.

I next day aired him some prototype goodies to test and he should recieve them at the shop tomorrow. All in all,a lot of things to test and R&D with.

IIIIMMMM back! And no burns to show for it.

The 292 lives! Had some troubles with things, carb, dist and stuff in general. But it now does run and start very well.

How much power does a stock cammed 292 and low comp engine make with a lump port 1.94 valved head, 600 carb, offy intake and headers?

216.9 HP @ 4300 rpm and started the tq @ 2500 rpm with 315 and made a straight line to 211 @ 4500rpm. It runs good. Would be a great combo for any streeter.

That was the head installed on this engine. it is now off and a completely stock head is bolted on ready for Saturdays event.

Back out to the shop, have to weld up the pesky header flange that is not sealing up.

What nail biting fun!

CNC Dude, hope you have some beer and jerky in that package.

It is going to be a couple long days. Still keep your fingers crossed guy's. Tom

I think we should've seen if anyone had a Fedex account we could have used for shipping, you'd be surprised what just a 1 lb. package cost to Next Day Air up there. You should have it around 3 PM....

Once upon a time in a cramped dyno booth in Dysart, Iowa a group of greasy men gathered with a a pile of engine parts and a plan. Only a few of their friends payed attention to them in their pursuit of factual information that would answer questions they had been asking each other for as long as the oldest in the group could remember. Had they been normal and traditional in their quest for speed and power they would have long ago fitted their various vehicles with modern designed, large displacement V8 engines which the speed industry favored with unlimited products. These guys were different, really different, they were "INLINERS" and had gathered to explore the limits of the long skinny engines they were drawn to. Except for the Canadian who was different in a different way. He was waiting for their tests to show that he had been right all along because the engine he was drawn to is modern and fat! It took weeks or even years, to accumulate the necessary pieces to build an engine that would be competitive with out of the crate Vs. That was not the point. The point is magic, and their purpose is to separate the black magic from the white, the facts from myths. They are finishing their preparations now and soon we will know the truth!!

Sorry I'm just so excited. Good luck Tom and friends! Beater

That's funny Beater, I should use that as an intro to my book, kinda' like a comic twist.

Comic? I was dead serious! Use what you like. Beater

Yes

8.2 Cr

Comp cams
ported exhaust port

stock intake stock exhaust.

Beater,
Thats some fun stuff there! Very good. I f you guys could have seen me, drove straight there from work, got off early of course. Wearing Blue dress pants, wing tips and a nice button up shirt. Next just stripped to a T shirt and going to town. Wife will not be happy! Try'd not to wipe my hands on my pants,really!

I do have to thank Strokersix (Mike) from this BRD and my local chapter, for his gracious help. Without him I'd still be wrenching. He heard more than his share of profanity, not from me of course. Hope he is not scared off! Tom