Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance looking for pistons for a 194

i just got a 194 and im looking to build it up. only thing i cant find is a set of good high performance flat topped pistons? any one know where i can find a set.

Just a quick question,,,,how about building a 230 or 250,it bolts right in.

Or,,, if you are set on a 194 engine,,,go for it,mileage between a 194 & 230 would not be much difference.

Tring to find parts for a really non popular engine like a 194 is probably going to take some research to find pistons.
I am sure they are out there,good luck.

MBHD

well i got it for next to nothing so im seeing what i can do with it. and i would love to find forged pistons. i may go turbo with it for fun.

If you keep the boost under 8-10 # AND run some sort of electronic boost retard you can use the cast pistons fine. Save a few $$$

Most people give away the 194's,I never payed for one yet.Wait, I take that back,,,I wanted just a cyl head from a guy that had a 194 so I had to pay him $20 plus I had to take the rest of it away also,,,I still have a forged steel 194 crank.

That's a cool idea for turbo,but pistons are gonna run you about $600 for a good set of forged. Might as well run the bigger engine & make more power if youd like.,choice is yours.

With a bigger bore as in the 230 & 250's you will also bennefit w/more airflow.

The 194 bore is tiny.

MBHD

Would that go for a 292 too?

Venolia has flat top forgings for the Chevy 6's for less than $450 bucks. They also give you the ability to place the ring pack wherever you choose, as well as the compression hgt.

That's a great price for forged pistons on what ever dimensions you like,,you guys need to jump on that & forget about cast pistons,as they cannot tolerate detonation very well @ all.

Electronic boost retard is OK,but it would be safer to install a knock sensor with the ability to remove timing when it hears detonation instead of guessing when your engine is detonating.

Note: you cannot,repeat cannot always hears detonation w/your ears. Be safe,get something w/a knock sensor,,,it cost's more,but it will save your engine.


Two cents thrown ;-).

MBHD

well i may be getting a 250 for $50 waiting for the guy to get back to me. but i still think i want to play around with the 194 and turbo it to see how it does. now i know a 194 head on a 250 block will increase compression ratio. what would you get from a 250 head on a 194 block? would it lower it for a more boost friendly compression ratio. i have a 250 head laying around wanted to see what you all thought. still a little new to these engines. i would love to have a turbo 6 for the 39 chevy.

Yep, if you install your 250 head onto your 194 you would loose about 1 point of compression.

The 194 does not have high comprssion,correct? 8.5ish?

I would just keep the compression where it is at run lower boost pressure,under 10 psi approx,& use a methanol injection set-up on pump gas.
Running a desent CR of 8.5-9.0 will make your 194 a little more zippy rather to drop a point of compression to 7.5:1 (w/a 250 head) will be lazy.

So far I run up to 24 psi of boost pressure on my street Syclone on pump gas,but it also has a built in knock sensor that will retard the timing automatically along w/a J&S safe gaurd. A little spendy ,but saves your engine from detonation & self destruction. http://www.jandssafeguard.com/

Most people that want high performance turbo or supercharger on the street on pump gas,,,all use some sort of methanol injection,,,cant figure out why people here do not seem interested in it though..

I will say this,once you try methanol injection,,,you wont be needing race gas anymore ,for the most part.

You'll be asking yourself,,,why didn't I install a methanol injection kit a long time ago?

As of now my pump gas street Syclone runs 12 flat,,,w/out meth & pump gas,it would be running mid to high 13's.

It is like a chemicle intercooler plus methanol has a higher octane value.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/water-injection-kits-1/universal-19/
http://www.coolingmist.com/
http://www.alkycontrol.com/
http://www.google.com/products?sourceid=...on&um=1&ie=UTF-
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/

8&ei=RRQUS83tLomMswP43qnDAQ&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCsQrQQwAw

Hope this help a bit.

MBHD

ok i was not sure of the c:r on the 194 so i thought it may need to be dropped to run the turbo. thanks for all the info it should help alot on my build. i am going to turbo what ever 6 i put in my 39 when i get that far. either the 194 or the 250 that i may get. might be the 194 becasue the 250 might go in the 82 to get that tired integrated head of a 250 out of there. question would it be worth it to lump the head with boost or is it a waste of time? also i cant find rods for the 194 yet so would 250 rods work i know they are the same size. just not sure on the wrist pin?

any one ever see and individual throttle body turbo set up on the chevy 6. seen alot of bmws going this way. wonder how it would work out?

Having lumps installed will help,almost any application.

Choice is your if you want to spend the $$$.

With a turbo,cylinder head flow is not as important when you are forceing air/fuel into your combustion chambers. So, in short,it's not a waste of time,yes there will be an improvement if you install the lumps.

W/a turbo,,if you want more power just turn up the boost a bit along w/proper tunning & supporting mods. Sure you can port the head & lumps to flow really good for a lot of money & or time,or you can crank up the boost a bit for less money & get more flow forced into your engine.

As far as wrist pins,,I thought they are all the same size.

Going w/individual throttle bodys is a neat idea & better for a normally aspirated engine.

But going w/a turbo a single throttle body is better,less chance of leaks,lees complicated, & overall,you would not see a difference in power running multiple throttle bodys.

So my advise,stay w/a single throttle body.

I had run 3 48 MM DCOE Weber carbs w/a Paxton supercharger blowing through them,it ran good,but hard to stop the leaks,& in reallity I should have gone w/a single carb for ease of maintenance.

I just ran with the Webers because I had them.

MBHD

yeah i understand that i do not need to make the head flow as great with a boosed engine since i am forcing air instead of pulling through the engine. but i imagine i would be a good idea to do port matching in this case.

you make a very good point with the single carb. im going to go with that. i can see its easy to jusst keep it simple if you can.

ok so i have most of this figured out. working on cam size and i should be good to go. any ideas? im going to run a t3 60 trim. i think that should be good size for this engine.

Part matching is fine & bowl porting along w/the short turn radius.

Not sure what are you plans for how much HP you are looking for & what size engine?

Cams between a 194 & a 250 CI will be greatly different.Need to know size your engine will be.

You want to blow through a single 4 bbl carb?

T3 w/a 60 trim.

More info on this turbo.
Inducer & exducer measurements of the wheels ,60-1 compressor wheel? turbine housing.63,.84.96???

MBHD

ok i am going with the 250. i finally got ahold of the guy. so im going to get it this weekend. and cam ideas?

i would like to push 350 to 400 hp

no carb going fuel injected. still working on what system i want to go with but i willing to spend the time and money to do it. ever hear of a system that can handle fuel and ignition maping for boosted engines? i havent dug that deep in it yet but im looking.

turbo will size 3" inlet 2" discharge T3 60 .63 A/R

ever run a fast system. i was reading up on them. i know many that have but never on a turbod engine. im going to look into it more on what i will need to set it up.

Fast sysytems work fine.

There are many EFI systems you can use,some really pricey ,others pretty basic & practicle.


All depends on what bells & whisles you would want.

Whenever I get around to it,,,,hmmmm,,LOL,,,,I will be using an SDS system.

http://sdsefi.com/

I like it because you do not need a laptop to do any realtime changes. You imput the changes on the handheld programmer display.
Just like the compushift controller for my 4L85E,no laptop required. http://www.hgmelectronics.com/products/compushift

MBHD

I am using a Holley Commander 950 system. Controls fuel and timing and works great with a boosted engine.
Holley is coming out with a new system early 2010, it can even control a electronic trans, coil on plug and many more features than most will ever need. Self learning also. Tom

Hank,

Well SDS is here in town and I have been to there shop a while back. Its a small outfit.

The biggest drawback is that you can't save and restore a tune up file with the SDS system. Make a tuning mistake and it can take a while to get back to where you were. On systems that you use a laptop you can save the files. You can get a used laptop for under $200 so its not a big deal.


Ok I'm getting off my stump.

I have watched my friend tune a BBC from scratch & it did not take long to do.

Guess you just need to get used to it,like many new things to a person.

The SDS systems are cheaper than most EFI systems also.

Not affraid of a laptop,I have one,just don't nessarily like to boot up a laptop just to make a simple change.
Plus having a laptop in your car driving is not really comfortable either. all I.M.O. ;-)

w/the SDS,it's right there in you hands,really simple.

MBHD

change of plans. the 250 the guy had for sale turned out to be a 235 with a 848 head. so im now going to be building a 235. any one got some info on these. ive done alot of looking just need to know about some of the machining that needs to be done. going .060 over and .060 off the head. should i go more or less?

oh and im not going to boost this on going n/a

If the engine is complete, you should check the piston to deck clearance as you disassemble it, so you can get a rough idea on how much to deck the block. Then you after you cc the head after its remachined and assembled, you can calculate the compression fairly accurately before you reassemble the whole engine. Just to see if you need to adjust anything else before you go to far.

i have been reading around and would it be better to leave the 848 head alone and to deck the block instead. can this engine be zero decked with flat top pistons and the 848 like the other I6 engines

Well when trying to cut the head or block a whole lot on these engines the exhaust valve is one thing to watch out for. It has a flat valve angle, and the valve head is almost level with the heads deck surface. You might consider also checking the piston to valve clearance as you disassemble the engine as well, just so you can establish some guidelines now, instead of going to far to fast, and then having to back pedal, especially if you are considering a cam swap to a more aggressive profile on top of excess block and head milling.

The 235 is 100 to 150 pounds heavier than the 250.

yeah im just trying to get some info on what works with these engines. i wont know what to do to mine untill i get it apart. but i do want to get the c:r to around 9.5. i was reading that these heads have 1.94in and 1.50ex valves. is this true? thats huge for the day. i think im going to leave the heads alone for the most part. just some porting and port matching. and goign to upgrade the valves with a good 4 angle valve job. well i wont know untill i tear into it this spring. thanks for the help.

i know its heavier but i like the look of the old 235. going to look good in my fenderless 39 chevy

In 1952, the Powerglide 235's were listed as having 1.94" intake valves, but after that they were shown to have 1.875", they also only had 6.7-1 to 7.5-1 compression at the most, so getting it up to 9.5 isn't going to be easy.