Inliners International Forums General Discussion Bench racing Cross flow flatheads?

I was reading the Porting & polishing flathead thread and what Ray was saying there about F- heads and it made me wonder if there were ever any cross flow flatheads. I guess they would need duel cams and the transition areas would be a considerable extension to the combustion chamber but they might flow well. Beater

Ford V8s were essentially 'crossflow' flatheads...

They ran the exhaust ports through the water jackets from one side of the block to the other.

But valves on each side of the block? I'm sure there's been an engine or two built like that, but I'm not able to recall when or what. Back in the days of 5:1 compression ratios it wouldn't have mattered much, would it?

In the same vein, the Riley engines up to the fifties ran a camshaft and pushrods on each side of the engine to give their 'hemi' heads.

Having the intake and exhaust valves together on the intake side of the block made the "crossflow" Ford V8 a boiler and a block-cracker under repeated heavy loads and high rpm. In the early days some adventurous souls tried reversing the intake and exhaust ports on Ford V8s, but i doubt that it worked well. Instead of exhaust gas overheating the engine, one would have overheated fuel in convoluted, restricted passages. That didn't keep people from trying.

If GM had built the early Chevrolet sixes with insert bearings and seven mains -- not to mention a crossflow head! -- the history of hot rodding in the United States would have been quite different. In many ways the Ford flathead V8 was an engine singularly unsuited to high performance modifications, but it had inserts and a short, sturdy crank that would take a beating. When Chevrolet finally built an engine for high-performance driving, it was a V8. They never exploited the potential on the inline design that they already had.

God's Peace to you.

d
Inliner #1450

And fitted an oil pump!

Same with Hudson, they needed an oil pump, but could produce good power whilever the dippers on the rods found oil each rotation.

We must remember, however, we are talking of the 6:1 compression era!

No wonder those times were named 'the Depression'...

"No wonder those times were named 'the Depression'... "
I thought that was because of the dimple in the tops of so many of the pistons!

A crossflow flathead would be a T Head. If you look up Locomobile
or American La France you will see they used these engines for many years. The main disadvantage was the need for an extra cam , & therefore cost.

Hmmm...

There's a Locomobile engine at Wallangarra... no, sorry, that's a Hupmobile engine rusting away in a backyard on the border.

Welcome to the forum, I think you might be one of just two Queenslanders here.

Thanks for the welcome, I am sure I have seen a few more banana benders on this sight But I may be mistaken. Dalveen is an unusual place for someone to be(though I suppose why not)it must be peaceful.
I go past every now & then on my way to Lightning Ridge. Unfortunately my Missus only lets me go once a year now......

Does that mean you have to pick your route more carefully?

There are just 135 households get their mail through the Dalveen Post Office, we live just out of 'town' in an old Queenslander perched on 823 acres, with another house about 200 yards away on the same property and one maybe a mile away down the valley from where we sit on the verandah and have breakfast being the only signs of human existence that are visible from our place.

Down that valley there's also an almost-defunct railway line, but one day (on a holiday weekend) we'll see smoke and steam from an 'historical' train trip running between Warwick and Wallangarra.

But I'm away most weekends working. During the week I'm mostly here and I have some nice old sheds to play in and stash my bits and pieces... gradually I'm getting set up and a workshop will come together.



What sort of things do you play with?

Okay,Ray. Whenever my first trip to Aussieland takes place, I'm inviting myself to camp on your "estate"!

That's a pretty spot! What is that green stuff on the ground? You don't see much of that here. What interesting place names. Nevada has such boring names like Gold Hill, Silver City, Battle Mountain, Mound House, Dead Camel Flats. Susan's Bluff, Tuscarora, Tallaoosa, Winnamucca, Jarbidge. Just run of the mill stuff. Beater

It's early spring in Queensland, and what a vista that is! It's clearly a place to visit, even if one has to drive on the wrong side of the road to get there.

God's Peace to you.

d
Inliner #1450

Come to think of it, when I was a lad I took apart a Reo lawnmower engine that was of the flathead crossflow design. It had one cam lobe that operated both the intake and exhaust valves. Even as a kid I remember thinking' "Wow, this is something different from other engines I have disassembled. What a neat design!"

Yes, it was a part of the R.E.Olds / REO Truck / Oldsmobile dynasty.

From their history brief:

"That engine was introduced in 1949 and became a great success. It was a well-built cast iron engine, with its head slanted at 45 degrees. It ran "backwards", that is, the flywheel rotated counter-clockwise, which was opposite from most other engines. However, the power was taken from the camshaft, which meant that the drive pulley turned in the same direction as other engines, at 1/2 the speed of the crankshaft. The intake and exhaust valves were both operated by a single cam lobe on the camshaft.'

That photo was actually taken in late autumn or even winter...

It's now early summer in Queensland, and after a scorching hot November some of that green's gone. We expect some rain next week, so the green will return.

Unfortunately this is not exactly my domain. I merely rent the house, which is within the fence you can see with the gates in it. And I get the majority of those sheds. I expect to be there a long time... certainly, if I have my way I will.

Dalveen is surrounded by places with names like Applethorpe, The Summit, Cottonvale, Braeside, Rosenthal, Lyra, Wyberba, Ballandean, Liston, Stanthorpe, Glen Aplin, Severnlea, Wallangarra, Jennings, Killarney, Warwick, Allora etc.

But you can also believe me on this, we've got some awfully depressing names for some places here too.

Oh yeah... anyone's welcome to drop in. Just phone me first.

You have a beaut place. I live in the Brisbane suburub of Joyner.
You can't go any further west without falling into lake Samsonvale. After years of resistance my missus OK'd a shed .I am just setting up myself. The only project I am playing with now is a Garden tractor I was given.
However I would like to pull the 250 cu inch Sidevalve out of my Dodge truck to make a basic rod. Or restore my Ferguson , or get my 292 chev powered Bedford running well.....however I have pledged to my wife I will not undertake any automotive hobby until ALL landscaping is done. It doesn't stop me viewing inliners & planninmg for the future, how about your own projects?

Those wives must have a Bulletin Board of their own. I made some similar deals about finishing this house and landscaping when in my late 20s. How was I to know the house would grow and so mush of my early work would come under the remodel clause.

Flyer, I'd like to see one of those REOs. It surely does sound different. It is amazing how many different designs will actually run. Beater

I've got lots of projects...

A long term one to make a 230 side valve fly, I want to build a replica of a car that raced in the 1951 Australian Grand Prix. But I need some 1940-48 Ford brakes to make that happen, the 230 is in the shed as is the Vauxhall 25hp 4-speed gearbox.

Two road cars to become my regular 'fleet'... a 1970 VG Valiant with a 245 that I'll convert to LPG and bolt an A833 4-speed into, I want to recover the LPG power loss with some mild mods to the engine.

Then there's my 1970 Peugeot 404. A darling motor car to drive, this will get a '76 model 504 TI engine with the injection removed and, once again, LPG rammed down its throat. A 5-speed 505 gearbox will save it some revs.

I have a deal going where I'm collecting 265 Hemi 6 engines for a major attack on them. The plan is that I collect them, my nephew does the basic work and then they go to someone well versed in getting huge horsepower out of sixes for drag racing.

Getting away from all the inline things, I'm creating a modern multi-carb intake manifold for the old Poly 318 V8 because my nephew needs this for his road race project ('64 Dodge 440 for historic road racing), and I'll be marketing these.

Yes, I know Joyner. Not a bad spot.

Any chance of some diagrams or pics of this one? Sounds interesting...

When I read that I was drawn to recall a friend's little project/job he showed me a couple of months ago. I don't remember what it was, but a very early (turn of the century stuff) engine with either one or two cylinders, the cam profile had a hollow in it for very quick closing of the valve. And there was something strange about how the cam was mounted, but I can't remember the details at all now!

Old engines and home made projects are fun to see. In the mid 50s my cousin built a go cart with 3 Maytag washer motors in a row. Is that an an inline? He traded me a wooden copy of a muzzle loading rifle he had made for one of the engines. I still have it!

Sorry, But I can;t delete this. It was a double post.

OK,I'll use it for this: REO mower engine

I forgot my other longer term project...

I have a little sports car, like a Lotus 7, but built entirely with of Peugeot 203 mechanicals in a spaceframe chassis. Torque tube rear end and all.

It's been mine since '77, and I would like to get it going one day. I've got a 403 engine for it.

Regards your Valiants & LPG don't worry about power loss I recently converted my Magna (Not an inline) & experience no power
loss. Modern LPG is a big improvement on old systems.
Also old tractors often ran on LPG the manufacturers upped the compression ratio to minimise power loss, something you will probably do to your Val any way.
If you go to the Ginger factory in Buderim you will see a Chrysler flat head race car.

I found this:

Hey, that's great... enormously atmospheric...

Any chance you can e.mail me larger versions of those?

raybell@racingphoenix.com

Ray,
I got them from a Google Images search. I don't know how to make them bigger. sorry.