Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance Cliffords or Langdons?

I currently have an unused set of Langdons bolted up to the engine that will be going into my car ( pics here).

I just found a pretty good deal on a set of used cliffords and have someone that is interested in the Langdons.

Do you think the Cliffords will offer more from a performance standpoint? I know that Cliffords claim an 18-22% gain in HP, but I have not seen any numbers for Langdons.

Thanks!

Products like these, are typically complemented with the use of additional performance enhancing items, like bigger cams, hotter ignition, 4 bbl. intake, etc. So a tubular style header might be better if you are using some of these other items as well. A more stock engine, on the other hand, might be more benefited by using a stock type manifold, if the rest of the engine is stock or only slightly unmodified.

You might consider appearance too. Cliffords generally have more weld joints and of course Tom Langdon's headers are smooth.Sounds silly I know, but you have such a nice dressed, performance motor that I think Cliffords might spoil the look you've acheived without increasing performance all that much. That's just me though.

I think the extra upkeep and shorter life of the tubular headers will offset the slight if any power gain. Personally I would stick with the Langdon's.

It would depend, for me, on what I intended to use it for. Tubular headers sound tinny and don't last as long and can have sealing problems but give more power in performance applications. Langdon's cast iron headers last forever, look good almost that long and give almost as much power in mild set ups and never leak. For the street, I'd go with Langdon's. Racing, go with Clifford. Don't let your ego make this decision, be real with yourself!

I do not remember if you are running a stock front subframe or a manual transmission. If you are running the stock clip and manual trans the z-bar clearance can be a major issue. On my 66 the Stovebolt cast headers cleared the steering gear and the z-bar with no issues. If the Clifford headers are the older Chevy II specific headers for a 292 they too will work, although steering box clearance is very close. If the Cliffords are the new generic style measure carefully. I would believe they could interfere with the z-bar, but may clear an automatic. If you are using an aftermarket subframe,probably any thing will work.

Thanks for the input guys. Here are some pics of the engine:
my 292

Here is some background on why I asked the question.

I currently have Langdon's bolted up to my 292 sitting on my engine stand.

I found a .040 over 194 for sale locally. It has a rebuild 230 head (from what I can tell) that I was told was decked. Clifford headers, Clifford intake, HEI, Holley 390 w/ electric choke. All this stuff was bought new about a year ago. It is being pulled out of a 63 Chevy II, so the guy is throwing in the 3spd tranny and bellhousing, as well as the exhaust system. I got what I think was a great deal on the package.

The exhaust on my car is about to fall off of it and I have been trying to limp it along until I am ready to install the 292. I was thinking I could install the cliffords and exhaust system now to get me by. I plan on installing the 390 on my offy, then selling my 390(prob needs a rebuild) with the clifford intake. I plan on keeping the Chevy II bellhousing, but don't need the 3sp. I will probably be going with a 700R4.

I initally went with the Langdons b/c I liked the way they looked. I have someone that is interested in buying them from me already, but I am kinda unsure about what I should do. I will probably clean the up the cliffords and see how they look bolted up to the engine. This is a street car (probably won't ever see the track. If I decide I want to keep the Langdon, this guy may take the cliffords and exhaust system off of my hands.

Okay. If the 230 package is a good deal for you, I would go for it and do what you are thinking because it offers you options. You can do what you need or want to do, you could swap the 230
package temporarily into your Chevy II,or you can sell off what you don't need or don't want.

Lyndon,
That 292 sure is pretty on that engine stand. DrooooL !!! Lets get that out of the way.Jealousy Envy and such.

You wont need the bellhousing if you go to the 700R4. So save all that linkage and stuff for me cause I am getting rid of my Powerglide and going to put a stick in.

But lets talk about you; Your 292 will love the Clifford intake and headers. That big motor needs to breathe. The 390 carb will do fine and you will most likely step it up for the 292 as well.

I have an Offy intake on my 250 but have been told that the Clifford will help with more mods or in your case a bigger motor. I am also on the fence with the Clifford headers or the Langdons cast irons.

Does not hurt to have a back up plan.


James

Thanks James.
I may hold onto the Chevy II bell. I have that rebuild T5 sitting in my garage too, that may find it's way into a Chevy II wagon if I ever get the motivation to finish my hardtop first. I have a guy that is interested in the T5. If I sell it, I'll let you know about the bellhousing. The guy also threw in his Hurst Indy 3spd shifter, which looks practically brand new.


In regards to the Clifford intake, I've heard that the offy is better for the street as you will sacrifice some low end torque with the Clifford.

I bolted up the up one of the Clifford headers last night, and I think it looks pretty good too. My only reservation now is the potential problems with exhaust leaks - chasing down exhaust leaks is one of my pet peeves.

Yes, I don't think you will have to fuss with the Langdons. However the tuned effect of the Cliffords will help you out low and mid range.

But over all the Langdons will be quieter, something I hate is weird engine noises and headers will always leak some.

I had exhaust issues with my 66 C-10 that drove me crazy. Currently having some problems with my 88 Silverado (Edelbrock aluminum headers) - I'm so annoyed with the problems, I'm thinking about selling the truck.

A friend of mine that used cliffords while he had an L6 in his nova never had any problems with them sealing. I think I'll let the guy that is interested in the Langdon's decide for me - If he wants the cliffords with the entire exhaust system (he is planning on running his split exhaust into a single pipe), I'll sell him that and keep the Langdons. If he wants the Langdon's I'll keep the cliffords.

Is it possible to use clifford headers with the Offy intake? I thought I've seen pictures of this, but when I tried to both everything up, the front header hitting the offy intake.

Yes,
I have recently done this on the dyno 292. Had to remove some material from the front lower intake and put a small dent in the headers. Tom

I have run cliffords for years. They will eventually leak. They tend to warp, particularly the ends. Usually happens after a good bit of heat cycling. It is easy to fix, you just weld some material to make up for the warp and either belt sand (machine shop can put on belt surfacer or you can actually come pretty close by hand using a file or disc sander). the langdon's are terrific. No warping,great durability and they will hold their value. the cliffords can get beat up pretty quickly, and as every one knows, no value in an old set of rusty headers. Old style cliffords did not fit all intake manifolds. I am not sure whether that was on purpose of not but if you are using any other manifold you will more than likely have to do a little bit of modifying. This is true for the late model and early model chevy headers. I dont know if that is still true with teh more generic versions that are now sold.