Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance Help needed to change 4 piles into 1

Injection control page 1 ?
Injections per cycle 4

Doesn't the TBI use a Idle Air Control Motor(IAC)? Tom

My thoughts are, with a carb it will automatically change the mixture as conditions change with fuel injection YOU have to change it. And it much cheaper and quicker to get running.

EFI was invented to get better gas milage and meet smog rules thats all ,what if your out on the highway and something goes wrong you can't take it apart and fix it you call a tow truck.

There are a lot of blow through carbs that make big HP 2500+ and every time a cloud goes over you don't need to make a change, all I see with EFI is the guys in their cars playing with their laptops in the staging lanes.

Everyone agrees EFI will not make more power than a carb so why go through the grief.

Harry

Harry,

If you wish to continue this discussion open a new thread - this is beaters conversion which he has chossen to do.

This is what is cool here difference of opinion! Different purposes. I doubt if this 1 ton dualy will make many 1/4 mile passes. It's not a race car it's a truck. How do you feel about HEI? Do you fix that on the side of the road? It's just another option that I think will work for me. I see a lot of race cars on trailers pulled by injected trucks. I could carry a carb under the seat with the points distributer and the tire patches. What's wrong with better fuel milage and the same power?
Tom, it does have an IAC motor.

Beater

Sorry I will drop the subject, just seems some on this board think you need EFI to run a turbo.

Harry

P.S. an HEI module fits in my pocket.
Just kidding.

Harry. no problem with me over this. You have far more experience with this than I do. I'm just doing something that interest me and hoping to make it easier for others. If I can make this run anyone can. Tom

Beater,
Is there ( in the software ) a place to set the minimum IAC value? This is the place the IAC goes to once the engine is running. When it is off it closes all the way.


Turbo 6,
I run the EFI because it was what I wanted at the time. It starts great and has not broke down (much). The tunability and data logging are second to none.

I just put together a 250 turbo engine and it was carbed, made great power, started great and tuned very easy. There are good and bad about both systems. Tom

Here is what I found today. When it is cold and snowing the help doesn't show up. The MS injector pulse light flashes when cranking. Even when cold it starts right up but stops when I let the key come back from start to run. It powers up in the on/run position and fires the prestart pulses. It will run with the key in the start position but that is sort of tough on the starter. It works fine with the stock ECM. Wiring? Problem in the GM harness adapter?

Tom, I'm also going to take a look at the IAC circuit. There was a choice there in the assembly as well as a tune setting. But it will run if I can get power in the run mode. Beater

Sounds like a wiring problem. Recheck Gm harness. Did you make it? Tom

At this point I am using the Megasquirt on an '89 GMC. All I have done is to disconnect the timing lead to the distributer so I am only dealing with fuel. ( I thought) It runs fine on the stock ECM, just no timing advance. The '89 is my test vehicle. Tom

Tom,

You need to check if you have +12 power on GM ECM harness pin A6 in both crank and run. This pin provides power to the MS. A good place to check power on the Ms itself is the voltage regulator. If you hold the board so the heat sink is facing up the input pin to the reg. is the LH one.

Check the Harness pin then check the regulator pin in both crank and run.

Pin A6 is on the smaller of the 2 GM connectors top row. The numbers are embossed into the connector plastic.

EFI

I'll do that tomorrow. Thanks, Tom

Tom,

You may also have to check the injector PWM setup - if its off it could cause the problem you are seeing.

While cranking the MS rips the injectors open using 100% duty cycle as the battery voltage is not at 12v when the starter is engaged.

Once the engine gets above the minimum cranking rpm - the PWM kicks in to keep the injectors from getting to hot - remember these are low impedance injectors. Search the following pages for injector PWM. If you turn the PMW off and it runs (only let it run for a few seconds) then you know where the problem is. The injectors and the injectors drivers will get hot fast if you run it more for say 5 seconds.

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/

Also did you install PWM circuit?

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/V3trouble.htm

Well put.

Are you going to get back on the MS and TBI today? Definate loss of power when you release key?

Recheck the simple stuff. When I was young and full of stupid ideas, put a edelbrock cross ram dual quad on a 400 sbc. It ran well. Changed to a better distributor and that when things went bad. It started fine, idled good (as it could with a big cam), and pulled good until you really got into it. After what seems like weeks of trouble shooting, to the point of thinking something happened to the timing chain/ gear and looking. It turned out I had wired my brain to remember the firing order incorrectly and thus crossed two sparkplug wires and it still ran decent as is. Once that was fixed the motor did not last long because it just screamed. My friends did not let me live it down, not even today. Tom

This is something simple because as I learn more about it my whole part in this is simple. The MS guys did all the hard stuff. I've been doing a lot of searching on the MS forum. I will try to do what EFI-DIY suggested. I think there is something in the injector setup that is off. I have power in ON & START. The low impedance injectors have a special setting and I have to go back and check where I am with that. I think power to the injectors is being cut to protect them. There is a new 2" of snow and lots of wind so I'm going to do as much as I can inside today. I can do some of that with the stim board. Beater
P.S. We did a similar thing with my son's Stude. It has the same firing order as a SBC but the rotor turns the other way. It hit on #1.

Can't believe you are still getting snow. What's your elevation? Tom

5,800 feet. This global warming is kickin' my butt! It is slowing everything but the weeds. Beater

MBHD:
I guess he could, of course, just call efi-diy, but if he did, then I wouldn't be learning anything...ergo this forum, see?

Thanks:
Paul...aka xerxes

Come on boys, you all act like you're going thru man-o-pause. This is supposed to be a fun place to gather and exchange information, not a pissin' contest. I agree that typed words can't show your true feelings/emotions, but hey, 'I' do have a website to moderate.

Tim

X2^2

Ouch!

What is the HRI board. Perhaps another place to learn something? What's the web address?

Hot Rod Inlines is another board for those who have interest in our preferred engine type. You will see friends from here and some new ones. It is simply a different place for us to hang out and visit. Come and join us. We still spend a lot of time here because this is our club. This is the club! Beater

We are sooo close! I am looking back now at the pulse width modulation and fly back circuits to see if I made mistakes during assembly. When I get this done I will go through the assembly steps and put something together for us to help simplify this process for anyone using GM junk yard parts to inject an inline. If I can get this done anyone can. The MS kit and assembly guide are great but because it covers so many applications it is easy to get lost. It will be much shorter that this thread! Beater

Well it sounds like you are ready to wrap this project up then. I bet that will be a relief. Now if it will just quite snowing so you can put it on the road and start having some fun.

"Rapp" it up maybe "wind" it up when I "tune" it up but I'm a long way from the end. Getting the MS going is really just the beginning. The purpose of the thread was to get help to make one good truck from the piles of parts laying around. Each step has it's own challenges and it will take a while to make all the mods needed. I think the MS is the toughest one. We'll see. Beater

You making any noise with this yet?

Not yet. I've been real busy with other stuff. My son graduated from UNR Saturday! I have had to work a little more than usual and what little warm weather there is gets used up by the weeds. I have been reading on the MS forums and I found the information I need. I also found that I have a connection problem in the DB9 cable. I'll try to get that fixed tomorrow and then take a look through my file and make sure it is OK. Tom

Tom:

What you're doing is very cool. Count me in as one of the many who are eager to see / hear your results. Clearly this has been a journey for you. It's great that efi-dyi has been able to help break trail for you but it still seems like a huge undertaking.

Sincerely:
Paul...aka xerxes

Turning a footpath into a wagon trail takes work and this is what Tom is doing...

Once Tom has established a working tune up and has the reduced instructions done, this conversion should be able to be done easily if you know which end of the screwdriver is pointy.

Will it take some effort - yes - think back to the first time you built an engine - I bet it took a lot longer than it does now.

If all goes well I'll be giving a presentation on the EFI basics and in particular TBI set up next month at the Convention.

X2

I'm hoping what seems like a 'huge undertaking' for you will help it be less of an undertaking for me.

ANXIOUSLY awaiting and good luck.

We just about have all the parts together to make this happen at the Convention. The neat thing about it is the work will be done on the grand prize motor on the run stand. Every thing will be easy to get to. Thanks to every one who donated parts and time to help make this happen. The Inliner world out there sure has stepped up to he plate.

Those are some great words of encouragement guys and I greatly appreciate them. I will get this done and I know I can help some of you avoid some of the problems I have had. Soon and thanks again for the kind words. I wish I could be at the convention. Jerry you will really enjoy working with Marc to inject the prize engine. If I have anything you need please ask. Beater

The Prize motor is being used only as a test motor for this DEMO. The motor will be returned to a carburetor when testing is complete for give away. I can hardly wait..see you guys there...J

That is what we did at Bonnevile. You will be amazed at how fast Marc will have it runnung, and how good it will run. My 270 still hates me for putting the carb back on. Beater

It looks like I may have more that one problem. Because I was confused about "PWM" (pulse width modulation) I left out a step that helps run the injectors. There may also be a power issue in the truck and a computer connection problem. I will just have to sort some stuff out. The good news is that by doing it this way I can put the stock ECM back on and check out the truck. I can hook the computer to something else through the serial port and check that. I will add the flyback circuit and reload the basic parameters. A couple of hours this weekend will answer some questions. I hope someone at the convention will make a video of the TBI conversion there. It will be much the same as the Boneville Demo. Beater

Anyone want to start a pool.... which engine is going to be running first... Beater's or the grand prize one........

I figure Beater has a 28 day head start....

I've got $50 on the Grand Prize!

$50 on beater.... got a whole month head start...