Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines Chevy 292 vs. Chevy Vortec 4200

Hello all! My dad and I are building a '71 Chevy Nova and have narrowed our motor search down to either the 292 or the Vortec 4200. The application will be a street/strip vehicle that will run on 91 octane for the street, and race fuel for the occasional visits to the strip (when we can pump up the boost to see what she's truly capable of). Either case, this will be a built motor, and below is a list of major mods my dad and I are looking to do. I made a basic list for each motor (either 292 or 4200) depending on which engine we choose, they're both so damn appealing but as always each has pros and cons. Any insight and help would be awesome!

Chevy 292 Mods:
1.) extensive machine work as recommended in Leo's Power Manual
2.) lightened & balanced crankshaft
3.) forged steel rods
4.) forged aluminum pistons
5.) custom ground cam (for turbo application)
6.) multiport EFI for stock head (if budget doens't allow for a hybrid head)
7.) Clifford or Offenhauser intake manifold (mod'd for EFI on stock head)
8.) head work & oversized int/exh valves for stock head (again if budget runs out)
9.) turbo exhaust manifold or custom tuned stainless steel tubular headers w/ (both will have ceramic coating)
10.) turbonetics, garret, or greddy turbo and air-to-air intercooler (we'd prefer a split scroll to increase boost response and efficiency)
11.) 3-4" exhaust pipe to either a glasspack or small muffler (if its needed) although Tom's '65 el camino sounded great w/ just the turbo for a muffler

I'd like to go with a hybrid aluminum head, but my dad is a bit hesitant b/c of cost and extensive work, but I think it'd be bitchin' to have a 292 w/ a hybrid aluminum head! My only problem/concern here is future reliablity of the hybrid head and head gasket issues (especially on a boosted application). I am concerned it be plagued w/ problems down the road...any thoughts? The benefits however would be an aluminum head w/ 12 individualized int/exh ports and a fuel injector per int port! The motor in Leo's '54 Studebaker is close to what I'd like to do (only not so much boost, as it'll be primarily street driven on 91 octane).

Chevy Vortec 4200:
1.) engine disassembly so my dad can inspect the motor and check for potential problem areas (most notably in the head assembly)
2.) lightened/balanced crankshaft (if needed/recommended)
3.) forged steel rods
4.) forged aluminum pistons
5.) custom ground cams if recommended (for turbo application)
6.) oversized valves (if recommended)
7.) turbonetics, garret, or greddy turbo and air-to-air intercooler (split scroll turbo)
8.) turbo exhaust manifold or custom tuned stainless steel tubular headers w/ (both will have ceramic coating)
9.) larger fuel injectors
10.) head work (porting/polishing)
11.) 3-4" exhaust pipe to either a glasspack or small muffler

Both motors are so appealing, I wish I had the money to build up both! The 292 bored .060 over (302ci) has that extra 40+ ci over the 4200 and has power proven results, plus it looks so clean when finished (looks like a classic American motor w/o all the plastic crap covering it up like today's motors), but has a poor head design. The 4200 has all of today's technology and innovation, but looks ugly (compared to the classic 6's) and has a lot of electronics and plastic/composite parts that we're not too familiar with (just more stuff to break is the way I look at it lol). As you can see, extensive work will be done to either motor we choose. So any help/insight/knowledge/advice would again be greatly appreciated because I can't wait to get start asap! Thank you!!!

The only reason the 292 appeals to me is because it can be bored .060 over and equate to a 302ci I6! That's roughly 46ci more displacement than the other 6's (other than GMC's 302 which I heard is not a very good motor). Power is my main concern here (as much as 91 octane can provide) for the street and again race fuel for the strip. My goal is to have a 10 second street rod (possible w/ race fuel and more boost) that is primarily street driven. If this would be possible with the 250 that's already in it, or the 4200, or the 292 that'd be bitchin! Which ever route would be the easiest, cheapest, and least problematic would be the motor I choose. I agree with you that the 292's stroke (although great for massive TQ) is probably a bit too long for high revs on a turbo setup, probably has a good chance of throwing a rod!

What do you think each of these engines (292, 4200, & 250) would redline at when properly built? I've heard they can rev to 6000-7000rpm no problem!? I see you have a 250 as well in your '69 camaro, what does your motor rev to safely? Are you really close to getting in the 9's, and is it a drag car or a street/strip application like I'm shooting for? I'd love to know what you did, how you did it, what it looks like, etc. basically I'd like to hear all about it! lol

Thanks again for the insight fellow inliners! From what's been said on my forums, the 292 is slowly losing its appeal and the 4200 and 250 are quickly gaining my interest!!!

The 292 is going to be best suited as a torque motor, so if you plan to use it, keep that in mind. Also, many people seem to be of the belief that, "more RPM = more HP", and thats not always true. We have a member on here that has had a 292 in his race truck with both nitrous and now has a turbo on it, It currently is making 700+ HP, and over 800 ft lbs of torque, theres a youtube video of it on the dyno floating around here somewhere. So the potential to make that kind of HP is obtainable with these older style engines, with the old adage "HP costs money kid,how fast do you want to go" being your only limitation. From the dollar/HP standpoint, EFI-DYI is probably right on the money that the 4200 is going to be the cheapest route to get their, since those engines start out with HP levels stock(290), that is almost double what the 250 or 292 start out at HP-wise. EFI-DYI also has a video of a 4200 engine on the dyno also floating around somewhere on here as well. You can get to 500 HP and beyond with either the 250,292 or 4200 engines, you just have to settle on how much your willing to spend to get there, and see which one best suits your budget to do so.

Before I put the 4200 inthe truck I built a stout 292 NA motor - well for the money I spent on it the stock 4200 ran rings around it and burned 1/2 the fuel of the 292. The only thing the 292 has going for it over the 4200 is bottom end grunt. Put a bit more gear in and an OD to compensate.
Without any driveline changes the highway mileage went from a best of 13 MPG (with a reasoanble tune in the holley 600) to 25 MPG with the 4200.

The major factor here is nostalgia verses technology. There are still many members here who run 235s or 261s and will never run a post 62 motor. I started with 292s before the Vortec motors came out and have gotten to know them. When you get down to it they are very simple to work on, hold up well and have the look of an old motor. The 4200 has 30 years on the 292 and it shows in the stock configuration as well as when they are hotrodded; they also look more like an import motor.

It is really no different than if you were trying to decide whether to start with with a 71 350 for your Nova or a LS3. There is really no wrong choice, it is just a different mentality.

They only look different when stopped, with the hood open.
If that's really important you're doing it wrong.

Some people have to have an engine that looks great.

Some people need to have the outside of a vehicle look flawless & don't give a crap on how it runs or performs.

Whatever floats your boat.


MBHD

My bad, what I object to is careless use of "how do I get 500 hp out of my 1937 Topolino without changing the engine's appearance?".

Better choice of phrase:
If it's most important for it to be fast (not fast-er), what it looks like in a photograph is a low priority.
If you want to create or preserve a look or time period, performance is far more expensive with a lower limit.

My dad taught me that if you're going to do something do it right and not half asses, or else why even bother. This will be my hot rod that my dad and I built together so I want it to both look and perform like a street rod from Chevy should. The outside, inside, engine bay, and motor will all look beautiful once we're done. I'm a bit of a perfectionist myself lol, so I can definitely apply that to our project!

So, have you made up your mind on what engine?

4200, 4200, 4200, subliminal meassge LOL.


MBHD

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/778/d585coilsinstalled.jpg

Some items for to hotrod the 4200.... its still a work in progress especially the wiring... poke around a bit.

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My .02, 4200

You may have to use a different trans depending on how hot you make the engine (sounds like you will) but the 4L65E that comes with the engine (ie no adapters) should last till you do.

Cheapest way (in the long run) will be to buy a wrecked Trailblazer, Envoy, etc if you plan to run the factory computer.

If you plan to run aftermarket (ie Megasquirt like efi-diy has) that's not particularly important.

Sounds like a neat project, mine (4200) is a '50 Jimmy I'm hopefully going to be able to go through with my pops (we both have projects we have to get through first, and he's not getting any younger, I sure hope we get to it).

Good luck.

Just out of curiosity what are you hearing that's "bad" about the 302 (aside from it's the wrong vintage for your car)?

Haven't really heard anything "bad" about the 302, to be honest I don't know a whole lot about them other than they were used in military vehicles then adapted for civilian use. Stovebolt has a 302 in his vehicle on his website and speaks highly of them. I haven't been able to find much info (especially performance parts) for them though. The Chevy 250 and 292 seem to be the performance platforms for those wishing to go fast. I heard that their design is not that good though (just hear say tho)

I'm gettin' the subliminal msg's lol. Now all we gotta do is track down a motor and start throwin' the checkbook at it haha. Too bad all the motors came with was an automatic transmission. I LOVE standard tranis and think the car and motor would be much more fun with a stick. I also wouldn't have to worry about torque converters, high stalls, etc. There'd probably be less parasitic loss with a stick vs an auto as well (whp is all that really matters anyways)! My dad said they may have put standard tranis in the blazers back east (I guess they love sticks over there). That'd be great if he was right, idk if the bell housing or block would fit a T5 or modern day stick. Any clues?

I also wanted to thank you all for helping me make a well informed decision based off of your various experiences! I think we'll be able to make more power with less money with the 4200, we definitly weren't gunna poor 20-25K into the motor! Maybe one day when I win the loto, but till then I'll stick with the vortec haha.

EFI-DIY

Your motor looks like its coming along just fine! Lots of wires to play with lol. So what is your truck gunna be used for (street, street/strip, strip, etc)? You recommended dropping the compression from 11:1 I think to 8.5:1 - 9.5:1 b/c its a bit lazy when its out of boost? If you dropped your compression to 8.1:1 how much boost are you running? Are you running on pump gas (91 octane) like I will be primarily, or are you running race fuel? What compression ratio and psi of boost would you recommend for my application? It'll be mostly street driven (91 octane) and see the strip on occassion (race fuel and more boost). Is the stock intake manifold sturdy enough to hold up to boost, if so how much? My dad says it will probably only take up to 5-6psi of boost b/c its plastic; so we'll probably make a custom manifold.

Trucks used for street/strip, cruising etc. I had a lumpy 434sbc in another vehicle - burned fuel like no tomorrow and was not very flexable - this time I decided to try turbo and like it.

The stock intake is fine to 8-10 PSI. Backfire pressure is a lot more than you will ever be able to supply with a turbo.

Running 94 octane pump gas. 9.0:1 minimum CR, 10 psi with ported head and cams will put very close to 450-480 RWHP. Just make sure your tune up is good. These engines do not take a lot of advance 24 to 26* total off boost and 8-12* on boost.

The 5 cylinder (not full grown) Colorado pickup versions can be had with 5-speeds from the factory! Should be the same block at the bellhousing end.