#61851 - 12/02/10 08:05 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
|
56er
Active BB Member
Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 375
Loc: Bremerton, WA
|
There are some that have two shafts, (= more slop)& others have a single shaft = (preferred.)
When I used to go to the junk yards,I used to find more split shaft distributers than the solid one one piece.
The split shafts are held together w/a roll pin.
Also, there are many w/internal coil in the cap & less external coils,1 or 2 years made that way?
IIRC,1975 ,was the first year on inline 6's for HEI's
Also, the plug gap that year was excessive,the following year ,the GM reduced the plug gap to improve passing emmissions easier.
MBHD
Since I was taking pics, here is difference between solid and pinned shaft.
Solid: 
pinned: 
_________________________
"The first rule of overkill: You can never have too much overkill."
"Overkill is underrated."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#62002 - 12/08/10 08:19 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: snowman4839]
|
56er
Active BB Member
Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 375
Loc: Bremerton, WA
|
Because that's a dual overhead cam 4 valve per cylinder engine with vastly superior cylinder head development, better cylinder head sealing, more efficient cooling system, much larger engineering margins, designed to be turbocharged with significantly more aftermarket support. That engine is probably turning 8 grand. And you can drive it on the street like that. A 250 radical enough to spin 8 grand will not be streetable at all. You just can't squeeze a chevy 6 that hard, the head and block decks are just too thin. We're fighting a poor head design as well. I had one of these to put in my 71 mustang with 272 cams, a header, HX40 turbo, and greddy i'c (600hp setup), then Fast & Furious Tokyo drift came out and suddenly I was a copycat, so I sold it. I wonder sometimes if I shouldn't have kept it and used it, but the 292 will look so much more appropriate, and you just can't beat that chevy 6 sound.
_________________________
"The first rule of overkill: You can never have too much overkill."
"Overkill is underrated."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#62008 - 12/08/10 09:40 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: snowman4839]
|
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
Active BB Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 4546
Loc: Ca
|
Well I'm going to try and buy a HEI dist from 56er. So the pinned shaft will be fine? You can use either one http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx74/Uglydog56/Distributer%20pics/DSCN1899.jpg (on the right) I still don't understand the difference between pinned and solid. According to Turbo6 the pinned shaft help align the distribter gear to the camshft drive gear.And back to my questions before it kinda got off topic... Would these work? T3/T04e .63 A/R turbo (is this anything close to what I need?) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T04E-6...#ht_4635wt_1167Something like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T04E-4...sQ5fAccessoriesThat will work & it's low $$$$Wastegate (I'm assuming since I'm fabricating the setup, I can choose any wastegate right?) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/38mm-TURB...#ht_3146wt_116738 MM wastegate is fine.B.O.V. (fabrication means any B.O.V. too right?) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Type-RS-T...#ht_5825wt_1167You do not absolutely need a BOV, but it is a good idea to use one. Low boost not a big deal or manditory for a BOVIntercooler (anyone that I can make fit right?) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/28X9X2-25...7#ht_2869wt_941Take good measurements of what should fit.Not too small of a core,before you buy post up here what you are thinking about buying. And just out of curiosity... I was watching a video of this guy with a like a 3 Liter I-6 2JZ engine in his 96 or so Toyota supra. He made like 650hp at ~19psi and 950hp and ~40psi. He had forged pistons and rods and everything. Why couldn't you make that kind of horsepower with another liter of disp. and the same types of mods?
The Toyota L6 you are talking about is a stout engine stock.
Guys have just added mods to stock longblock & have made 800 HP & the engine stays together.
4 valve head = much better airflow & capable to make way more power than our Chevy L6 250's.
Look @ mighty 6's turbo 292,he says if he wanted to,his truck would be really streetable & he makes 750+ HP @ the wheels?
But, one thing,he started off w/a better cyliner head that flows over 300 CFM.
MBHD
_________________________
12 port SDS EFI 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#62059 - 12/11/10 08:23 AM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: snowman4839]
|
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
Active BB Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 4546
Loc: Ca
|
snowman4839,
the turbo should work ok,but just to make the install a bit easier & less parts to buy maybe use there other one like: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T04E-T...=item43a162a252
The turbine wheel is a little small,but it will work.
I run the stock type internal wastegate on my Syclone & make about 400+ HP to the wheels.
The BOV, is low dollar & I have one of those types on my Syclone & so-far it seems to hold boost & works fine.
I know you are working from a budget (me also) & all you items are low $ and should work fine on low boost aplications.
It's just when you start wanting more boost & make a lot more power is most likely when some of these parts might fail on you.
Intercooler should be fine,just try to see where your plumbing for the intercooler is going to route, so you can see how you need the ins & out of the intercooler tanks.
I made sure not to use 90 degree bends,you can if you need to ,but it will hurt in flow.
For fuel pump,I always used an electric Holley,need to research for a good mechanical pump,& boost reference off the pump,maybe someone on the BB knows of one?
You need higher psi than the boost pressure you are going to run.
MBHD
_________________________
12 port SDS EFI
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#62065 - 12/11/10 10:45 AM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: snowman4839]
|
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
Active BB Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 4546
Loc: Ca
|
snowman4839,
External wastegates boost creep also,that's why you would use one of these or others:AEM Tru-Boost Controller Gauge Control system & Display
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AEM-Tru-B...Q5fAccessories.
I have the tru boost on my Syclone & it holds rock steady boost pressure w/my internal wastegeted turbo.
Crack pressure is when the valve opens prematurely.
If you use a external or internal wastegate they boost creep.
Example:your internal or external wastegate will have a spring tension of say 5psi,,so when you are starting to boost up say 3 psi,,,the valve will start to open & increase the time for your turbo to spool up, (boost will be slower to rise)
W/an electronic boost controller ,if you set it to say the same 5 psi,your wastegate valve will not open until the programmed 5 psi is made.
If you are talking about boost spiking,that's a different scenario. When you are running high boost high HP aplications,the internal wastegate sometimes cannot maintain & controll your boost pressures,normally because the internal wastegate valve is too small.
When you want all the power you can get w/out causing turbulance & causeing the turbo to slow down,then you would use an external wastegate.
There are adjustale external wastegate actuators.
http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0001&product=FMAC9000A
Ther are external actuators that ypu change the springs also.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...id=150414755376
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORGE-adj...=item1c17bde139
Or do something like this a helper spring which I added to to my Syclone.
But there are different spring tension actuators.
Mine has a boost base pressure of 15 psi,meaning my Syclones minimal boost pressure is 15 psi it cannot have any less than 15 psi,I added the adjustable external spring if I wanted some more psi.
Here is my separate wastegate, Note: the position or how far downstream I reintroduce the wastegate exhaust back into the downpipe/main exhaust system,
Also note the shallow angle it comes into the downpipe,you do not want to go in @ a 90 degree angle.Key notes to make your turbo spool faster/boost faster & more power.
This set-up is for my SPA manifold.
This would not be an optimun set-up for the wastegate rentering the downpipe,too close to the turbine wheel,& the angle the wastegate pipe renters the downpipe.This is also a SPA manifold. http://12bolt.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/PIC00019.16952756.JPG
Also note: mine is not perfect either,I did try to reduce turbulence to a minimun from the wastegate exhaust.
or another option is to run a complete separate exhaust system w/a small muffler for the wastegated exhaust.
MBHD
_________________________
12 port SDS EFI
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#62078 - 12/11/10 01:34 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
|
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
Active BB Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 4546
Loc: Ca
|
Here are more updated pics of my turbo set-up,sorry it's taking so long,just dont have the time mainly, that & I always work on other projects,from house to motorcycles,etc.Money would speed up the process also. 
The wastegate ID tubing I used is the same size of the valve in the wastegate,if you use smaller tubing you are not taking full advantage of the wastegates big valve.
I weighed this set-up & it's guite heavy,,62 LBS
So by the time I add this set-up,intercooler,plumbing I can see pretty easy 100 lbs added to the front end of my Camaro,just what I dont want 
But I am sure the power it should produce will make up for the added weight, & make me do this
MBHD
_________________________
12 port SDS EFI
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#62150 - 12/15/10 07:03 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
|
68falconohio
Active BB Member
Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Cowtown, Ohio
|
snowman,
You may already know about this but http://www.searchtempest.com is a good tool for searching craigslist. I've been shopping around for welding machines for a while, waiting for a deal and it is peak season for guys to be posting up their toys(car&garage related) for sale per the request of the women who must be obeyed. I havn't seen this much movement on CL in the past couple months or so welding machine wise. G'luck with your project.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#62154 - 12/16/10 04:58 AM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: snowman4839]
|
tlowe #1716
12 PORT ADVERTISER
Active BB Member
Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 2327
Loc: Dysart, Iowa
|
Snowman,
I know you do not want to be buying parts 2 or 3 times, now you are sounding you are putting some real thought into this. Glad to hear that.
Just to give you more to think about. I think a Turbonetics 60-1 with P trim exh wheel and a .84-.96 housing would work very good for you. I feel a .58-.63 exh housing is just too small and will choke up your engines exhaust (later). This simular in size to the one I used this year on the Turbo 250, It spooled and ran great. I use a Turbonetis 62-1 on my 292 spec'd almost identical. Tom
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#62155 - 12/16/10 06:43 AM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: snowman4839]
|
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
Active BB Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 4546
Loc: Ca
|
MBHD. Well now that I'm thinking about the long-term for a sec, I guess I'll go ahead and spend the money on a turbo I can use in my endgame plan with the high pressure setup. What should I be looking for in terms of specifics on the turbo? You said a small A/R of around .63. But is there a minimum/maximum inducer/exducer size or something? I probably would've just bought the one you mentioned but it was almost $200 in just shipping from AU.
snowman4839,
unless you want to use a high stall converter do not go bigger than a .64 or there abouts for your turbine housing A/R.
W/a .84, you will need a stall of @ least 2800 RPM & w/a .96 3500.
Your engine will not see boost until the higher RPMs.
You engine is a 250 CI ,it's not that big.
I will promise you this, if you go w/a bigger housing, it will run like a pig w/any stall lower 2800.
With a stick/manual trans,same thing, boost will not come in till later,not good for a daily driver, not enjoyable @ all.
A .96 will be a complete dog.
I would only recommend a turbo that works on an actual street driven car, not just a dyno test,two different worlds.
A "P" wheel is fine to use.
Look @ Precsion turbos, they are making a lot of new products.
Good things I hear about them.
So,in short,you need to know if you want a quick spooling DD, or a turbo that comes in later & will make more power. or somewhere in the middle.
Personally ,I see this is your DD & using a big turbine housing will hamper your enjoyment.Later, you can upgrade to a .84 or so A/R ,but w/an automatic tran,2800 minimum stall.
So just buy a good size turbo now but run a smaller A/R on the turbine housing. You could step up to a Q trim turbine wheel also.
MBHD
_________________________
12 port SDS EFI
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#62164 - 12/16/10 05:11 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: Turbo-6]
|
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
Active BB Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 4546
Loc: Ca
|
Harry,
when you used this turbo,need to know if you had a manual trans,auto, what stall converter.
What size engine? Compression,etc,etc.
What RPM did it hit full boost.
Need details on your combo.
Snowman would probably think you had a stock torque converter.1200-1400 stall ,got great mileage etc.
MBHD
BTW,
Snowman is looking for a daily driver,good mileage,boost quickly,low boost all on his stock longblock.
He has a manual trans.His engine is a 250, not a 292,this makes a difference.He wants it to hit full boost close to 2000 RPM.
His engine is not going to turn high rpm for now & needs a combo to work w/what he has now.
Snowman,
My 2 cents would be for a 60-1 p trim w/.84 ar. I ran one of these for years will make 500+ HP. but is very good on the street. 15-18 psi boost no intercooler, blow through.
This bigger A/R keeps it from going to boost just in normal driving, but roll your foot into the gas and it goes to full boost instantly. At a stop sign hold the brake and it will go to boost.
Yes a .63 ar will boost quicker but hurt overall performance, I did not need it on my setup.
The turbine wheel is more important, the ar just fine tunes it.
Just my thoughts,
Harry
_________________________
12 port SDS EFI
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#62165 - 12/16/10 05:51 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: snowman4839]
|
tlowe #1716
12 PORT ADVERTISER
Active BB Member
Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 2327
Loc: Dysart, Iowa
|
Snow,
For your turbo, here is some of the criteria you need to use to pick one.
How much CFM does your engine need at different rpms.
How many pounds of air at boost
These are used to pick the compressor. Once that is picked then the exhaust side is used to help tune the turbo. The exhaust wheel and housing can be picked individually to form a combo to get desired boost at a rpm and not be too restrictive to the engine at cruise speeds or peaky when touching the throttle in normal driving. The opposite extreme is a turbo that does not produce the desired boost or is slow to boost.
You really need to get the books to study up on this before purchasing parts. Corky's and Hugh Mc(somethin) are great books on theory. There are newer books that I have bought that do not have the same valuable info they have. They are dated but so is this technology as is carburators. Advances have been made in both as we all know.
I like T4 turbo's because of more choices available for exhaust housings, wheels ect.
Keep in mind that a turbo is not something you just take apart and change wheels on and run again. It should be rebalanced and not alot of shops have the ability to do that. Some guys don't rebalance and get away with it, that is not the norm.
Turbo6 has ALOT of experience with turbos on inlines, keep that in mind.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#62171 - 12/16/10 10:28 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: tlowe #1716]
|
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
Active BB Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 4546
Loc: Ca
|
On my Syclone ,the housings are in CM so w/this chart I can give a bit of info on housings I have used or friends have used that I drove there Syclone. I personnaly own all the housings I made comments about.
*IIRC, turbine measures 58.8/67.2mm
If you want pics I can post them.
MHI Turbine housing areas:
6 cm2 = 0.41 A/R
7 cm2 = 0.49 A/R
8 cm2 = 0.57 A/R Stock Syclone 8 CM,works great w/2100 stall
9 cm2 = 0.65 A/R
10 cm2 = 0.73 A/R Also works good w/2100 stall
11 cm2 = 0.81 A/R
12 cm2 = 0.89 A/R Takes a while to spool up needs closer to 2400
14 cm2 = 0.97 A/R Minimum 2600 w/lag, 2800 + Stall is better for fast spool-up
15 cm2 = 1.05 A/R
16 cm2 = 1.13 A/R
17 cm2 = 1.29 A/R
19 cm2 = 1.37 A/R
*Note: The Syclone engine is a 262 CI 4.3 engine,which B.T.W. is bigger thaan a 250 4.1 liter.
Now these are T3 housings That I have personnally used on my Syclone & friends Syclone,T3's flow different than a T4, a T4 will give you more lag time than a T3.
You can learn from other guys as I have about stalls needed to run .63, .84, .96 & up A/R's on T4 turbos, from journal bearing to BB. Remember the Syclone is a bigger engine than a 250.
You can also learn from guys on the Buick forums,stock engine size is 3.8,but they also run 4.1 liter 250CI & they have sponcers,that help them pick turbos & what stall to use.Those Buick guys have recipe engines & they know what works to run basic 12's, 11's 10's ,9's & faster,they made so many Buick GN's T-Types & there is a wealth oh knowledge over there on those BB's
MBHD
_________________________
12 port SDS EFI
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: Webmaster
|
|
