#61958 - 12/07/10 06:45 AM
Re: Ebay internet find lump ports.
[Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
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tlowe #1716
12 PORT ADVERTISER
Active BB Member
Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 2326
Loc: Dysart, Iowa
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Quote from Randy S. Hager
Hey, I know I'm not an OFFICIAL II memeber, just the BB but I'm staying away from this board because it seems all I see is MBHD do nothing but bash others efforts, except his frends. I really don't know what he has against Tom but I've got the idea that He hates Tom for selling the Lump Ports like Larry's. Yea, I know Hank,......didn't need anymore people here anyways.....RIGHT! (If it means anything...I have LARRY's lumps and Tom doesn't hate me he helps me)
BTW.....wonder how many really do join the II after a few weeks, month, years on this BB?????
Randy,
Thanks for the nod, I try to help anyone that wants it. Working on these inline engines is just something I enjoy doing. Some guy's go to the bar each night, I go to the shop. It's alot closer to home. Had my daughter out with me making Lumps last night. She likes running the mill and is getting comfortable doing it. The boy is helping me work on the farm buggy and is starting to get excited. Know I would at his age.
Sorry we could not meet up in Texas this summer. There will be another time.
Quote by JimW
CNC is describing me as one of the many that have been helped on this forum. 'Most bang for the buck', simple and reliable describe my build.
I have less than $1350 in my engine and I have a setup that'll spin the tires in a couple of gears, won't give up on any hill at 65+ mph and I'm getting just under 17 mpg in a 4600 lb truck. That's pretty respectable for the money spent, I think, considering the starting point. As far as reliability, I have over 11k miles on it with one break down (broke a rocker), and if I would've known what I was looking at when I installed the rockers, then I would of known that I needed new ones.
Of the money I spent I have $400 in the head consisting of valves, lumps and machine work. I'm sure that Larry and others can make a 194 head run and flow like like the wind, but I believe that the machine shop bill alone would be more than my total head expenditure, and maybe more than double. Let's remember that we're not preaching to the choir, but rather that we're trying to build and help the congregation ('the average Joe'.)
JimW,
I did those dyno tests just to be able to help guys like you, me and countless others. Most guy's simply want the most bang for the buck, proven formulas. There are not enough people working on these engines anymore and so much knowledge has been lost. Machine shops will look at you cross eyed when you bring in a inline project. Most of the kids working in those shops have never touched a inline project. I am glad your truck turned out so good. It has made a very dependable cruiser for you. If I remember correct, you and your sons project too.
Hank,
Maybe you have had good experiences with a 194 head. Great. I ran one on my N/A 292 for many years. It had a Clifford 270 cam and 1.94/ 1.6 valves and porting. It ran good, had a lumpy idle and only put down a 16.9 in the 1/4. Always thought something was holding it back. Now I know the flow was not as good as it should have been. After doing these dyno tests, testing all those cams, heads, intakes combos. Would I run a 194 head, NOPE.
Is it a option, yes. It can gain you easy compression and may be really good to use on a low rpm engine. But ussually low rpm engines are working hard at a low rpm and will suffer from detonation easier if the compression is turned up. The 194 headt will limit the flow on intake and exh valve. The only way around this is the open up the combustion chamber. It is hard to get a shop to install Lumps/ oversize valves/ port inline heads economically. Who is going to do chamber work economically?
That is why I keep saying the open chamber head is the best head to start with. Most guy's build street engines.
I was also at the track when MRHotRod 6 (Mike Bareli) blew his engine at the Iowa convention in 2008. It was a bad deal. Helped pull the engine down to review the damage. That engine had a Open chamber head.
If it not a open chamber, then it is one heavily modified 194 head. Well it is certainly opened up in this pic.
Tom
Edited by tlowe #1716 (12/07/10 05:59 PM)
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#61962 - 12/07/10 02:06 PM
Re: Ebay internet find lump ports.
[Re: tlowe #1716]
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Twisted6 I.I #3220
Lump Port head builder
Active BB Member
Registered: 07/04/00
Posts: 3833
Loc: EdgeWater FL. USA I.I. # 3220
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Quote
I was also at the track when MRHotRod 6 (Mike Bareli) blew his engine at the Iowa convention in 2008. Helped pull the engine down to review the damage. That engine had a Open chamber head.
Tom
HEY TOM
I have a NEWS FLASH for you, You DIDN'T have clue what you were looking at and here are the head casting numbers
K2162 =1962 3824435 SMALL CHAMBER HEAD. And this head is still good enough to be USED as a nice test bed As WE already knew what the head flowed with the OLD STYLE lump port.
So and YES we still have and It's not a Open/Big Chamber head.
And If you think I'm BS with the casting numbers I have Photos as well. And the Head is still Blue Just like you seen it.
_________________________
Larry/Twisted6 #3220 }[oooooo]  Adding CFM adds boost  God doesn't like ugly.
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#61963 - 12/07/10 03:58 PM
Re: Ebay internet find lump ports.
[Re: 56er]
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JimW
Active BB Member
Registered: 01/30/10
Posts: 129
Loc: Upstate New York
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This is the chain lube thread of inliners.
Call me ignorant, but HUH.....? 
And by the way, who's Dan Bunch?
_________________________
If at first you don't succeed,
then read the directions and try again.
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#61969 - 12/07/10 06:42 PM
Re: Ebay internet find lump ports.
[Re: tlowe #1716]
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Twisted6 I.I #3220
Lump Port head builder
Active BB Member
Registered: 07/04/00
Posts: 3833
Loc: EdgeWater FL. USA I.I. # 3220
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If it not a open chamber, then it is one heavily modified 194 head. Well it is certainly opened up in this pic. Tom
Well I wouldn't heavily,But yes it has been slightly reworked. But hey what can i say I don't have a clue.Right lol
_________________________
Larry/Twisted6 #3220 }[oooooo] Adding CFM adds boost God doesn't like ugly.
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#61975 - 12/07/10 07:51 PM
Re: Ebay internet find lump ports.
[Re: tlowe #1716]
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Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
Active BB Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 4544
Loc: Ca
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Hank,
Maybe you have had good experiences with a 194 head. Great. I ran one on my N/A 292 for many years. It had a Clifford 270 cam and 1.94/ 1.6 valves and porting. It ran good, had a lumpy idle and only put down a 16.9 in the 1/4. Always thought something was holding it back. Now I know the flow was not as good as it should have been. After doing these dyno tests, testing all those cams, heads, intakes combos. Would I run a 194 head, NOPE.
Tom
Tom,
I not only had a good expeience w/the small chambered 194 head ,,I had the best experience w/it.
With 12.1:1 compression, it was an absolute torque monster,w/(DCOE's) even more so.
OK Tom,
you @ least tried a 194 head out on your own vehicle,,great, so after you were thinking the 194 head was holding you back, did you install a big chamber head for comparision?????? If so
Did it run better???
Who did the work on the 194 head,boss not removed???
Do you still have that cyl head & any pics of it?
As far as you wanting to use a 194 head,, I would not want it either with those low flow numbers & dyno numbers.
BTW, do you have any good 194 cyl heads lying around that you are not going to do anything with, except maybe a door stop?
Tom,
just curious,, do you think there is anything holding your 65 Elky back?
It weighs 3600 lbs,292+ cubic inches,efi intercooled & turbocharged ,700R4,355 gears,2400 stall correct?
If I am incorrect,lets break down all the specs on the Elky if you will. 
Need to update all the newer mods old mods posted in one post.
That way people can follow/copy your recipe.
MBHD
_________________________
12 port SDS EFI 
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#61978 - 12/07/10 08:24 PM
Re: Ebay internet find lump ports.
[Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
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tlowe #1716
12 PORT ADVERTISER
Active BB Member
Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 2326
Loc: Dysart, Iowa
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Yep, Still have that head. Can get pics of it. Got a few other 194 heads to be worked up.
Also willing to do another post if that will help.
Going to do your car too?
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#62011 - 12/09/10 05:57 AM
Re: Ebay internet find lump ports.
[Re: jalopy45 #4899]
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saltracer
Bulletin Board Only Member
Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 3
Loc: southern Indiana
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......after following this post, I'm glade I race a Buick 8...
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#62012 - 12/09/10 05:59 AM
Re: Ebay internet find lump ports.
[Re: jalopy45 #4899]
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DeuceCoupe
Active BB Member
Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 288
Loc: Northern CA
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Just did some quick calcs, guessing at a few things but to give an idea:
250cid+30-over
58cc head
.040 gasket
.000 deck
flattop piston (0cc dish)
11.59CR
The 70cc head would give
9.97CR
(Gain of 1.6 CR with the small head - at this level!)
Back to the small head, 58cc
11.59CR
Mill head .020
Guess that the gain is about 2/3 of that by milling the block, since milling the quench area takes away no volume
12.03CR
So if you started with the above, my guess is you'd have to mill the head .020" to get 12.03CR.
Now, my small head is 59.4cc bone stock as I last measured it, and chamber work will normally make it bigger. So, you might end up having to mill .040" or so to really get 12.0cr.
Even on my stock spare 250 -
Compression with my stock large head
72.5cc measured
8.15CR (a real snoozer)
With my stock small head
59.4cc measured
9.29CR
Gain of 1.14 CR.
So the small head gains 1.1 to 1.6 CR on things we would typically build. Does it also gain torq/power? That I suppose is the topic of this very enthusiastic (even fun?) thread. Hey, at least people care!
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#62027 - 12/09/10 05:10 PM
Re: Ebay internet find lump ports.
[Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
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Beater of the Pack
Active BB Member
Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 2486
Loc: Northern Nevada
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You have a very,very dry humor. Most people would consider deadpan humor to be rude. But the thing is we do understand you & no ,you are not funny. Don't you have another forum to disrupt?  Just talking to myself,dont mind me. MBHD
I can amuse myself quite well here thank you. No color no caps. Beater
_________________________
"I wonder if God created man because he was disappointed in the monkey?" Mark Twain
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#62035 - 12/09/10 09:58 PM
Re: Ebay internet find lump ports.
[Re: jalopy45 #4899]
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Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
Active BB Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 4544
Loc: Ca
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Hank, sit down and have a beer ,no one said the 194 head was no good. What was said was the 194 head will require more work to use on the street than an open chamber head. The dyno pulls showed that with and without lump ports the open chamber head is a better choice using the parts (cams, intakes,etc.) that are commonly found on street engines. If you like your head good, use it, no one is aking you to get rid of it, I'm not going to use one because I've yet to see anything to back up any claims that the 194 works better.
Jalopy45,
I believe Tlowe has always said, he would never recomend using a 194 cyl head period,this is probably because he has not had any luck w/one to flow good.Maybe someday he will & maybe then change his mind,I really dont care if he does or does not, that's fine.
The 194 cyl head does not need to be a fully reworked cylinder head to work good. It takes a little work,but like I said, I used smaller intake valves & made the chambers pretty small for max compression. You would be foolish, or just plain, have no clue to install a 1.94" intake valve in the small chamber cyl head & not do any chamber work.
It seems like Tlowes original 194 head had 1.94" intakes valves & no chamber work done.There was something holding back his 292.
It was the 194 head? who knows, he did not install a large chamber head to compare on a vehicle that actually runs on the street.But like I said,if it had 1.94" intake valves,that would be holding it back tremendously w/no chamber work.
BTW,still awaiting for those pics.I do not need pics, I know what it looks like as I tried different size valves in 194 heads over 20 years ago.
Pics would be for peeps here to see it first hand.
You are only considering his dyno tests to be the only possible source for cyl head info,do you think Larry is lieing about using a 194 cyl head on Mikes Camaro? Is Mikes record setting runs using the 194 head all lies? He has his time slips,probably has video also,w/larger chamber head runs & when changed to the small chamber head? Who knows,maybe twisted 6 can post some vids?If you had talked w/Mike Kirby & he told you the 194 head would be a good choice for a certain application,would you think he would be lieing to you, you would have a hard time believing that, correct.
Do you think he would work a 194 head ,sell it to you, knowing full well the 194 head is just plain no good?
Of course you think I am lying because I did not video tape my illegal street racing using a 194 cyl head.. I am a little smarter than doing that.
Anyways,, why would anyone want to lie about or give bogus info & want anyone to use a small chamber 194 head if infact it's not a viable option to use,it serves no purpose to this inliner forum to lie, do you think I want to be known as a lier,exaggerater.
Info I go from is mainly my own personall experience,if I do not know something , I will say, I don't know, or refer you to someone that will probably know.
I want every inline 6 to spank some V-thingy butts.
BTW, wheres my beer? 
I do not take it personal as an attack torwards me @ all,but when some say comments about me(making up lies) for no reason,then I get defensive,guess I need to drink beer while I type? 
If someone states my car runs 14 seconds in the 1/4 mile(& lets say it does), that is not an attack, just stateing the truth/facts.
If I post on you tube videos of my car running bad & is slow,& someone says my car looks slow,,,well that's because it is slow,can't complain about that.
There is a difference if someone is lieing about someone else & no facts involved & just plain putting them down, but if you state facts here about someone else,people say it is an attack.
Sorry , but sometimes the truth hurts.
If someone says my car does not run & it looks like pile of crap,should I get mad about it because they are stating the truth?Here is the pile. 
 I do not think so.
About using caps ,you should know what that means,how long have you been on the internet,& you are just learning this now??the colors to use,I guess you dont like it ,too bad.Mr. Hothead
MBHD
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