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#62018 - 12/09/10 10:33 AM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: copo-rat]
preacher-no choir preacher-no choir Active BB Member Registered: 01/26/10 Posts: 393 Loc: left out	Originally Posted By: copo-rat Thanks for the replies guys. I was/am concerned about the size of the car being an issue. I do know they came with some sort of inline 6 as an option (not sure which), granted, that was 50 years ago. I've looked at the late model 4.2 inline (atlas family) as it makes nearly 300hp and 275lb/ft in stock trim, but thought maybe I'd put something more 'period correct' in the wagon. Plus it would be different and cool. I don't need or want it to be fast, but if a 250 or 292 is going to be underpowered for it, I will probably go a different route. Didn't they put the 292 in trucks (even 4x4) into the early 80s? Full size vans as well? I'd have to think that they would be close in weight to the '64 Wagon. Thanks again, and if any other thoughts or ideas pop up, please share! They did put the 250's in '66 wagons, knew some folks that had one-it was a PowerGlide and was pretty easy on the rear tires, also had a barber who had a 250/stick in a '68 Impala. Even with the stick it was easy on the rear tires and Very quiet on the inside. Both cars would roll on down the road (after a fashion). But neither would clear 20 mpg on the highway.
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#62019 - 12/09/10 12:23 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: preacher-no choir]
copo-rat copo-rat Active BB Member Registered: 04/03/10 Posts: 103 Loc: SE Indiana	Edski, you don't think 20mpg would be possible even with an overdrive trans? If not, no big deal, just curious. I don't need this thing to be a monster on the street, just a cruiser. _________________________ ".....don't give up a TURBO more than makes up for all of this BS." Turbo-6
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#62020 - 12/09/10 02:47 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: copo-rat]
efi-diy efi-diy Active BB Member Registered: 11/21/04 Posts: 1386 Loc: Calgary Alberta Canada	copo-rat Could you measure the oil pan for me... bellhousing flange to rear of the sump, bellhousing flange to the front of the sump, depth of the pan not including the sump, and lastly depth of the sump (from the pan rail). Lastly the distance from the oil pan rail to the crank center line.... Thanks _________________________ 51 GMC 4.2 turbo Can't solved today's problems using the same technology/thinking that created them
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#62022 - 12/09/10 04:18 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: efi-diy]
DeuceCoupe DeuceCoupe Active BB Member Registered: 04/17/06 Posts: 288 Loc: Northern CA	230 Nova pan Back of Bellhsg flange to beginning of sump (drop begins) 9.75 Bellhsg flange to flat of sump (drop down ends) 11.25 BF to end of flat of sump (turn up begins) 21.0 BF to end of sump (turn up ends) 23.0 Depth of pan (at Nova pickup point) 6.75 from top of rail Depth of pan at #6 rod/counterweight 3.375" (about 4" north of the Bellflange - mine is scored here) Depth of pan in front 3.625" (pretty flat in front of the sump) The rear has to be dinged about 1/4" to clear the 292 crank and rods. See if copo's pan is the same, these are approx measurements.
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#62024 - 12/09/10 04:40 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: DeuceCoupe]
efi-diy efi-diy Active BB Member Registered: 11/21/04 Posts: 1386 Loc: Calgary Alberta Canada	At first glance without having a pan here to measure - sure looks like a 4200 with the stock pan will bolt in without mod's. I'd need to do some measurements to be 100% sure.... Hmmm now to find a straight '67 duce wagon.... _________________________ 51 GMC 4.2 turbo Can't solved today's problems using the same technology/thinking that created them
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#62025 - 12/09/10 04:58 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: efi-diy]
jalopy45 #4899 jalopy45 #4899 Active BB Member Registered: 04/09/06 Posts: 665 Loc: Oregon Outback	If you're serious I think my son still has a '66 out in Kieth AB. Normal AB salt attck problems. _________________________ '45 Ford PU '63 Nova Wagon 250 4 spd. '63 MGB GT Ecotec Altered
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#62029 - 12/09/10 05:45 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: jalopy45 #4899]
copo-rat copo-rat Active BB Member Registered: 04/03/10 Posts: 103 Loc: SE Indiana	efi, Wish I had checked this thread before I ran out to the garage (35 mins away)! I'd have measured the pan. I will be out there again tomorrow, I'll grab some dims for you. Deuce, Sooooo, the dims you gave on the oil pan sump are for a 230.....is there a chance I have a 230 and NOT a 250? I did measure the throttle bore, it's 1 9/16". I talked to the previous owner and he said it was a stock replacement carb. _________________________ ".....don't give up a TURBO more than makes up for all of this BS." Turbo-6
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#62034 - 12/09/10 08:29 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: copo-rat]
DeuceCoupe DeuceCoupe Active BB Member Registered: 04/17/06 Posts: 288 Loc: Northern CA	Copo, From your pics I'd guess it is a 250, but the way to tell is, can you post the numbers on the flat pad by the distributor? They will say for example, F0608CS The last 2 letters will tell what engine it is for sure. By the 1970s there were sometimes 3 letters. That sounds like the "mid-size" BV carb, came on the 194, 230, maybe 250 as well. (There were 5 sizes of Rochester B carb, this is the middle one. The 292 used the biggest one).
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#62044 - 12/10/10 05:01 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: efi-diy]
copo-rat copo-rat Active BB Member Registered: 04/03/10 Posts: 103 Loc: SE Indiana	Originally Posted By: efi-diy At first glance without having a pan here to measure - sure looks like a 4200 with the stock pan will bolt in without mod's. I'd need to do some measurements to be 100% sure.... Hmmm now to find a straight '67 duce wagon.... efi, My dims didn't differ from the ones Deuce posted really. I came up with 11.75 for the Bellhousing to flat of the sump and I had 23.5 for the Bellhousing to end of sump, other than that mine were the same. Parallax could be the only reason my dims differ. _________________________ ".....don't give up a TURBO more than makes up for all of this BS." Turbo-6
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#62045 - 12/10/10 05:08 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: DeuceCoupe]
copo-rat copo-rat Active BB Member Registered: 04/03/10 Posts: 103 Loc: SE Indiana	Originally Posted By: DeuceCoupe Copo, From your pics I'd guess it is a 250, but the way to tell is, can you post the numbers on the flat pad by the distributor? Ok, either I have an engine that didn't get stamped with numbers, someone ground them off, or the paint is VERY thick and hiding them. For the life of me I can't find numbers anywhere near the distributor. I even had my wife helping me look so I wouldn't think I was crazy. The only numbers that I can see are the ones just behind the motor mount (with the big GM under them), and the set of numbers above the starter mount and the set rear of those. [img][/img] _________________________ ".....don't give up a TURBO more than makes up for all of this BS." Turbo-6
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#62048 - 12/10/10 06:05 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: copo-rat]
DeuceCoupe DeuceCoupe Active BB Member Registered: 04/17/06 Posts: 288 Loc: Northern CA	copo, the number on the pad by the dist is stamped in it (kinda like the way con rods are numbered) so it is shallow and paint could be covering it. See if it is there, but can you read the other numbers? One of them is CON 2 (Conveyor 2) but the other is the block casting number and date, we could tell a lot from those. Problem is the 230 and 250 shared the same block, so the only sure way is the distributor pad stamp. Of course, the only real sure way is pull the head and measure the stroke!
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#62049 - 12/10/10 06:18 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: DeuceCoupe]
copo-rat copo-rat Active BB Member Registered: 04/03/10 Posts: 103 Loc: SE Indiana	Deuce, The one does indeed say CON 2 (which you knew), the one above the starter bracket says L20 6 and the one just rear of the motor mount is 3877173 with the big GM under it. I will look again (scrape the paint off) tomorrow as I will be at the garage again. Will I have to pull the dist to see the pad well enough to read it, scrape it clean etc etc? _________________________ ".....don't give up a TURBO more than makes up for all of this BS." Turbo-6
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#62052 - 12/11/10 06:06 AM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: copo-rat]
Twisted6 I.I #3220 Twisted6 I.I #3220 Lump Port head builder Active BB Member Registered: 07/04/00 Posts: 3834 Loc: EdgeWater FL. USA I.I. # 3220	stock for stock a 230 has a flat top piston a 250 has a dish. Pull a plug and take a look inside the hole is another.But like deucecoupe said,Problem is the 230 and 250 shared the same block, so the only sure way is the distributor pad stamp. Of course, the only real sure way is pull the head and measure the stroke! _________________________ Larry/Twisted6 #3220 }[oooooo] $\:\)$ Adding CFM adds boost $\:\)$ $\:o$ God doesn't like ugly.
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#62053 - 12/11/10 06:51 AM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: Twisted6 I.I #3220]
Hotrodrobert Hotrodrobert Active BB Member Registered: 10/15/10 Posts: 12 Loc: Charlotte, NC area	I worked for a dealer in the '60s and new replacement engines did not have a stamped number or some had only partial numbers so you may not have a number there.
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#62075 - 12/11/10 12:13 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: Hotrodrobert]
DeuceCoupe DeuceCoupe Active BB Member Registered: 04/17/06 Posts: 288 Loc: Northern CA	Probably 3877178 on the block, see Leo's book pg 17, used for both 230 and 250. Date L20 6 IIRC means Nov 20, 1966, so again could be either 230 or 250. I've never had to pull the dist to read the pad stamp, but as Robert said maybe they didn't all have a stamp. Clean up down to the bare metal is only way to tell. Twisted had a good idea, pull a plug - if there is dish, good bet its a 250. If no dish, good bet it's a 230 (or a 250 that somebody upgraded with flattops). Again only way for sure is measure the stroke. Edited by DeuceCoupe (12/11/10 12:15 PM)
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#62204 - 12/18/10 08:06 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: DeuceCoupe]
copo-rat copo-rat Active BB Member Registered: 04/03/10 Posts: 103 Loc: SE Indiana	Finally got the numbers off the pad by the distributor.......F1222PX.......Flint, Dec. 22 250ci with a glide & exhaust emission controls......going to pick up another one tomorrow that has a three speed behind it, anyone looking for a three speed out of a 67 PU? Deuce, you were right, it is 3877178....I looked closer. _________________________ ".....don't give up a TURBO more than makes up for all of this BS." Turbo-6
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#62392 - 12/28/10 09:11 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: copo-rat]
popper6 popper6 Active BB Member Registered: 12/15/04 Posts: 218 Loc: La Harpe,IL.	I had a 1965 biscayne wagon years ago with a 250/powerglide and I loved it. I think you will enjoy being an inliner. 1 OL REDNECK _________________________ DARRELL KRAFT I.I.#113
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#62424 - 12/29/10 05:32 PM Re: Help picking an engine [Re: Bruce]
copo-rat copo-rat Active BB Member Registered: 04/03/10 Posts: 103 Loc: SE Indiana	Bruce, I actually picked up another 250 out of a 67 pickup and will most likely be using the pan and pickup from that motor. I will probably pass along the Chevy II pan to someone that needs it though. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll probably throw it up in the classifieds. _________________________ ".....don't give up a TURBO more than makes up for all of this BS." Turbo-6
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