Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines 2011 motor oil

Grading as GF-5, SN, or in GM’s case, Dexos 1. This oil has no zinc. Plus if you use it, it will remove all the zinc in your engine. Will EPA even care how many older engines will get damaged or destroyed from this?

Uhhhh, no.

In their opinion, our engines are "gross poluters" and therefore would be better if they weren't run, ever.

I think STP still has it's ZDDP.

First, let me state I am 100% in favor of leaving zinc in oil and am a believer in it's load bearing properties. Also, I too deplore government's utter disregard for our wants and needs. However, let's be a bit realistic here. Not having zinc is not going to destroy your older engine. Think about it. What is the hp/ci of a 235 compared to just about any newer car? Much lower. How about the rpm range? Again, much lower. How about the bearing journal size? Aah, much wider and much larger in diameter. Now, I admit that there are only 4 main bearings, and larger diameter journals equates to faster bearing speeds, but this is on an engine in which "high rpm" means 5000. My dd 85 celica's redline is 6800, and that's an "old" car. I submit to you that the oil wedge size and bearing loads are much more conservative than in a new honda 4 cylinder, which will easily run for 400,000 miles with zinc-free oil. The real killer of old engines is oil contamination. Use a real oil filter (that's not painted orange), change your oil frequently, and get the carb/ignition systems operating optimally! Most old cars are quite rich, because rich is easy to start, easy to keep running, and easy to ignore. Get your mixtures correct, your oil will stop breaking down. Make sure your crankcase evac system is working properly to help pull out the contaminants that are volatile. They said taking the lead out of gas was going to kill our engines in the 80's, and I put another 100,000 miles on the 265 in my bone stock original 56 belair since then. It still runs and drives well with 240,000 on it, although it's starting to use oil. 23 mpg on the interstate. No zinc additives, no fancy oils, and once my mom went 10000 miles without changing the oil and it came out looking chunky like rotten milk.

All that said would be great if my old heap had a roller cam.That new flat tappet cam just has to have some help for the first hour of run time,after that anything on the shelf is fine...J

These new oils can be tough on new cam break ins. I've been using Delo oil in everything even my bracket car.

There are lots of additives out now. One called Zinc has no zinc. The guys at STP told me that a bottle of their stuff will treat 4-5 quarts and costs less that half of the others. I also think the greatest danger is at break in and as a parts guy I agree about the proper color of oil filters. I stay away from yellow ones too.

The oil for the big trucks still have most of the additives in it so go to a truck stop or farm supply and buy it by the gallon.I've always felt that the filters the main use is to remove moisture, if there are chunks in the oil no filter is going to help that's why I usually cut open my filters every oil change in my truck and cars and check for gold.

I remember reading in Hot Rod Magazine in the late 70's that the state of California was looking to try and pass a bill to crush all the cars in junk yards that more than so old to help curb the urge for people to put them back on the road. So the idea of trying to rid our roads of the older cars has been discussed for a long time. Now with the zinc removal from the oils, and newer vehicles being more immune to it, this is a more stealthy way for them to do it. Also the E85 gas is another way to try and effect the older stuff and silently push more and more older cars off the road. That must be why the electric cars are such a push, when they dont need gas to run on anymore, they will win, because no one will make gas anymore for them....then what.

I have seen people buy old truck. First place they go, Jiffy lube. The engine has not been current on oil changes. Put in a high detergent motor oil in it. Now the caked oil deposits are moving around. Going into oil galley, making the engine loose oil pressure. Need less to say the engine will need a complete overhaul. Non-detergent oil and bottle zppd, is the way to go.

'46 Chevy, that's a good point.

I try to stick with a given type and brand of oil in an engine that's been running one specific type for long periods.

'46, I think you are right about non detergent is the safer approach in that situation.

I'd be really tempted to do several oil changes in a row, first one with only enough run time to warm the engine. Maybe first one with non detergent, then step up to detergent oils. At least this way it'll be cleaner when I tear it down for inevitable rebuild.

BTW they are pulling all the zinc out of the diesel oils now as well. I am currently running Shell Rotella T in everything (same thought process as the delo), but haven't decided if I'm going to change anything yet. I have ZDDP for the break-in and the first oil change after that while the new engine takes a set. I've always been a proponent of sticking with the same oil every time, but if the oil companies aren't going to keep the oil the same, it kind of defeats the purpose.

Coatings! Coatings are the future!

As as been posted on earlier threads on this board, the new "low emission" 'CJ' diesel oils have reduced the ZDDP.
The earlier 'CI' diesel oils have higher concentrations of ZDDP. The ZDDP, and anti-wear additive, is mainly useful in areas of boundry lubrication such as on cams with regular type lifters (as opposed to roller lifters). Most of the rest of the engine, such as the jouirnal rod bearings and pistons, do not require the ZDDP.

Is it the govmt or is it Detroit and the oil companies trying to save money? Detroit dictates the spec of oil they want for their motors.
Virtually all newer stuff use the lower friction roller lifters and dont need the scuff protection of zinc (oil companies aint gonna give you nothing they dont have to--like 16 cent gasoline with lead).
I feel us hobbiests have no lobbiests therefore no hope or help from Washington, or Pennsilvania for that matter.
Now I'll step down from my soapbox -thank you.

The specifications for engine oils receive input from a combination of the government (Congress + EPA), the automotive manufacturers, the oil companies. I'm not sure how much role the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), and the lubrication engineering groups have on the front end. I know the lubrication engineers were not pleased when the automotive manufacturers starting specifying SAE 20 weight engine oils to improve EPA mileage test results. The SAE motor oil performance tests are extensive. Even a no-name third world brand that meets the SAE standards is very good.

The anti-wear additive is ZDDP, or Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate. Referring to "zinc" as the additive is little too short, as the "zinc" is really not the most active anti-wear part. Though "zinc" is great for sacrificial corrosion protection.

The government/EPA's aim is to extended the life of catalytic converters by lowering zinc and phosphorus in the exhaust.

Good anti-wear protect from ZDDP results in oil phosphorus concentrations of around 0.12%. New oils are typically 0.06% or less. Too much ZDDP can also cause problems, around 0.20%, so don't overfortify the oil if using a ZDDP additive.

There's plenty of information on ZDDP if you 'Google'.

Where do synthetics fit into the picture?

On the subject of motor oil and additives....The heavy additive
package in diesel and Harley Davidson motor oils helps keep your
intake valve stems from galling... When they gall, the clearance
between the stem and guide are increased and the valve won't
seat in the same place every cycle...Result...poor compression when cranking and accellerated valve seat wear.. That's why Chevy started putting brass inserts in their valve guides after
1980.. You can use heavy additives or change parts if you want
an engine that lasts and lasts... You can also use additives..
even 2 stroke oil in the fuel.. I have noticed that using
Shell Rotella 15W40 oil ($14 per gallon retail) improves ring
seal resulting in improved power and fuel economy.. But don't
ever use this stuff in a vehicle that has a CAT.. It will contaminate and plug the CAT in less than 30,000 miles.

Blind Melon

There are a few companies which are marketing "hot rod" oils for older engines especially the muscle cars of the 60's and 70's with flat tappet cams giving us a few more options...If want one of the best, research Joe Gibbs oil and step up. There are also many who advertise break in oils..... Good Luck