Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#64900 - 05/23/11 07:25 AM Rochester carb info
strummin67 I.I. Offline
Active BB Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 511
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Hello. does anyone have an online reference to identify 1BV carbs? I'm considering a 2 x 1 set up on my 194 so I'd want the smallest carbs. Thanks.
_________________________
Martin
'64 Nova wagon

Top
#64901 - 05/23/11 08:33 AM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: strummin67 I.I.]
panic Offline
Active BB Member
**

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1423
Loc: Hempstead, Long Island, NY
The original 194 carb is the smallest I know of. 1-1/2" bore, 1-1/16" venturi.

Top
#64902 - 05/23/11 12:06 PM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: panic]
strummin67 I.I. Offline
Active BB Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 511
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Ok so what's the best way to identify it when it's across the country out of my hands?
_________________________
Martin
'64 Nova wagon

Top
#64914 - 05/24/11 04:26 AM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: strummin67 I.I.]
Drew, II # 4211 Offline
Active BB Member
****

Registered: 08/10/03
Posts: 1871
Loc: Glassboro,NJ,USA
_________________________
Drew
Mid-Atlantic Chapter

Top
#64915 - 05/24/11 06:31 AM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: Drew, II # 4211]
strummin67 I.I. Offline
Active BB Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 511
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Thanks Drew.
There was another site that I had found but it appears to be gone now. It broke down the numbers by year and engine application.

If anyone has a 1bv they're certain came off of a 194 please let me know.
_________________________
Martin
'64 Nova wagon

Top
#64920 - 05/24/11 12:39 PM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: strummin67 I.I.]
strummin67 I.I. Offline
Active BB Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 511
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
I've located two BVs. The numbers are: 704522 704497 -c-4 and 700358 7004497 -c-27. Anyone know what size these are or for what engine? Thanks.
_________________________
Martin
'64 Nova wagon

Top
#64953 - 05/26/11 06:15 AM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: strummin67 I.I.]
DeuceCoupe Offline
Active BB Member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 404
Loc: Northern CA
I am doggone sure that:
The 194 came with the "middle size" of the 5 sizes of B/BC/BV carb.
1-11/32" venturi and 1-9/16" throttle.
I've worked on many 194s, all of them I pulled off were this size, also the size listed in the manual, and the numbers jive.

Now on to what I *THINK* I know. Comments Welcome!!!
As I said, I have detected 5 sizes of B/BC/BV carb.
I am guessing / calculating their CFM and provide it here at 1.5" Hg (the 4bbl style measurement).
1. Small
V = 1-1/16" T=1-1/2"
~95cfm
Use: 1959-62 truck "economy option"

2. Smallish
V = 1-7/32" T=1-1/2"
~122cfm
Use: 216cid, most

3. Midsize (most common swap meet carb)
V = 1-11/32" T=1-9/16"
~140cfm
Use: 1952-53pglide engine, 1954-56 car, 194/120hp, 230/140hp

4. Biggish
V = 1-15/32" T=1-11/16"
~168cfm
Use: 1954-63 261cid

5. Big Jug
V = 1-9/16" T=1-3/4"
~185cfm
Use: 230/155"HiPerf" and 292

AFAIK all the 194s used the "Midsize" carb.
I have one of the "Small" #1 economy carbs. It runs smooth and good but it is a dog on the Gtech, I feel like sticking my foot out the door and pushing the car to make it go faster. Tried re-jetting, not much better.

For your setup I'd just try two of the Midsize carbs. These are the easiest to find and actually IMO about right in CFM.
My rule for CFM (at 1.5" Hg) is "Double your horsepower" if the car is fairly light and has good gearing. Your 194 with a 2x1v intake would be near 140hp. Two Midsize BV's would give 2x140cfm, almost exactly right.

Top
#64994 - 05/29/11 06:37 AM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: DeuceCoupe]
strummin67 I.I. Offline
Active BB Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 511
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Thanks for the info. What carb numbers (if the tags are still attached) should I look for?
_________________________
Martin
'64 Nova wagon

Top
#65096 - 06/05/11 08:50 AM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: strummin67 I.I.]
DeuceCoupe Offline
Active BB Member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 404
Loc: Northern CA
(Edit - I believe the 5. Big Jug BV carb was also used on the 66-67 250/155 engine, but maybe rare since shortly after the 250cid came out, the BV was discontinued and in 1968 we got treated to the MV aka Satan's Carb instead).

Martin, as far as tags, I have not paid much attention - usually missing anyway. First hint is the throttle bore, then look down the venturi and try to guess it from there.

From that point I just use the jet I like (Holley jets work but you have to use about 4 numbers bigger) and drill the PVCR (power valve) to where I like it.

Still, some of the carbs just "run" better than others, best is to collect a few of the size you want and run your favorites.


Edited by DeuceCoupe (06/05/11 09:32 AM)

Top
#65108 - 06/05/11 11:10 PM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: DeuceCoupe]
g.m. dude Offline
Active BB Member

Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 73
Loc: Oregon USA
[quote=DeuceCoupe the BV was discontinued and in 1968 we got treated to the MV aka Satan's Carb instead).

Never could make a mono-jet run as good or deliver the economy of the model 'B'!
I've got a B of a '67 C50 truck 292 that i've been runing on my '60 C10 235. Carb still had tag (7027009) when I pulled it 3 years ago, rare to see, tend to break off easy & get lost. Like many others I too have lots of the B family members, some whole & some parts & peices.
Thanks for the info list Deuce, good info! I'll have to start measuring the pile, some smaller stuff, most midsized & 2 running 261 engines, both bone stock & complete from air cleaner on. And to think, my wife doesn't understand the sense of well being these items give a guy!
BC


Edited by g.m. dude (06/07/11 04:22 PM)

Top
#65134 - 06/07/11 08:01 PM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: g.m. dude]
strummin67 I.I. Offline
Active BB Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 511
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Are there other 1 barrels I should also consider?
_________________________
Martin
'64 Nova wagon

Top
#65135 - 06/08/11 07:23 AM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: strummin67 I.I.]
DeuceCoupe Offline
Active BB Member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 404
Loc: Northern CA
For sure I would consider other 1bbls.
The Carter YF has a good reputation (and was used on some of the 153/90hp Chevy II cars)
The Holley 1920 and 1904 (glass bowl) are popular, tho I dont like the glass bowl as it will not make it thru dragstrip tech.
(you are going to race your straight six of course???!?!?)

I just acquired a Holley 1940 I plan to try and compare against the BV carbs. Not sure of its reputation overall but I will find out.

Top
#65141 - 06/08/11 05:31 PM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: DeuceCoupe]
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER Offline
Active BB Member
*****

Registered: 05/04/00
Posts: 1075
Loc: FRENCHTOWN
 Originally Posted By: DeuceCoupe
I am doggone sure that:
The 194 came with the "middle size" of the 5 sizes of B/BC/BV carb.
1-11/32" venturi and 1-9/16" throttle.
I've worked on many 194s, all of them I pulled off were this size, also the size listed in the manual, and the numbers jive.

...


3. Midsize (most common swap meet carb)
V = 1-11/32" T=1-9/16"
~140cfm
Use: 1952-53pglide engine, 1954-56 car, 194/120hp, 230/140hp

...

AFAIK all the 194s used the "Midsize" carb.
I have one of the "Small" #1 economy carbs. It runs smooth and good but it is a dog on the Gtech, I feel like sticking my foot out the door and pushing the car to make it go faster. Tried re-jetting, not much better.

For your setup I'd just try two of the Midsize carbs. These are the easiest to find and actually IMO about right in CFM.
My rule for CFM (at 1.5" Hg) is "Double your horsepower" if the car is fairly light and has good gearing. Your 194 with a 2x1v intake would be near 140hp. Two Midsize BV's would give 2x140cfm, almost exactly right.


...except 1Vs and 2Vs are not rated at 1.5"hg depression - they re rated at 3"hg. So two of these will flow more like 200 CFM 4V equivalent, which I think would work swell on a 194 cid.

Re the Carter YFs: I think Ford 144 - 200 sixes used small versions of these. Try them. Good carbs.
_________________________
FORD 300 inline six - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING!

Top
#65149 - 06/08/11 09:34 PM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]
DeuceCoupe Offline
Active BB Member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 404
Loc: Northern CA
FTF,
I was guessing the CFM of the BV carbs but the numbers I gave were in fact at 1.5" Hg. So the midsize carb (140cfm my guess) would be about 200cfm at 3.0" Hg. I've never seen cfm ratings for the B/BC/BV hence the guesses.

Either way I agree with you that a pair of them would work.
I do show the Carter YF used on the 170-200-250 six from about 1970-up (tho some used the Carter RBS), and also the YF used on the Big Six, 240-300, also some AMC/Jeep used the YF.

The smaller Fords, 144-170-200 in the 1960s used mostly the Autolite 1100, close twin to the Holley 1940 as I understand it.

Top
#65212 - 06/12/11 07:48 AM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]
preacher-no choir Offline
Active BB Member
****

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 468
Loc: left out
what do you consider "good gearing"...3.08 or 3.55?

Top
#65213 - 06/12/11 07:56 AM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: g.m. dude]
preacher-no choir Offline
Active BB Member
****

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 468
Loc: left out
Doug roe's rochester carb book has happy words on Mono-Jets.. my experiance with them is fine once you take off/out/render useless the "smog" stuff ...they are a nice metering rod carbs with Q-Jet technology. Roe's book also has a good section on the model "B"s too and some CFM info. Roe is dead so have to look for his rochester books (from model B, hv corvair stuff , the olds F-85 jet fire turbo carb , all the way up to "electronic" Q-Jets ,dual jets and other Q-Jet spin-offs) on amazon etc.

Top
#65214 - 06/12/11 08:05 AM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: panic]
preacher-no choir Offline
Active BB Member
****

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 468
Loc: left out
All the rochester stuff I ever read or measured had 1-9/16 and 1-11/16 butterflies rather than 1-1/2 and 1-3/4 butterflies (like holley stuff) My son sent a pair of end tripower 2GC throttle bases to some Calif. carb guru (read "yahoo") to be bored and all they did was take it from 1-11/16 to 1-3/4 by using some THIN stamped steelmaterial that had daylight showing and vacuum leaking all around the butterflie-had to make our own about 3/32 thick and proper dia to shut down all the air leaks. It really pains me to pay for work than I could do better!

Top
#65226 - 06/12/11 11:28 PM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: preacher-no choir]
Nexxussian Offline
Active BB Member
*****

Registered: 06/12/07
Posts: 1411
Loc: Anchorage
 Originally Posted By: preacher-no choir
It really pains me to pay for work than I could do better!


Ament to that.

How did you fab the butterflies?

The only way I've seen it done is with a fixture in a lathe.
_________________________
My, what a steep learning curve. Erik II#5155

Top
#65230 - 06/14/11 12:57 AM Re: Rochester carb info [Re: Nexxussian]
Fasteddie250sprint Offline
Active BB Member
*****

Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 42
Loc: Arlington,Texas
I'll be happy to answer that one...knowing that the butterflies do not reside in their bores perfectly perpendicularly means that the butterflies are ellipses and not circles. Through careful measuring, Daddy and I determined the angle that the stock butterflies were in the bores. Then we obtained a piece of round steel bar the exact diameter of the butterfly bores and proceeded to cut/saw the bar off at the aforementioned angle roughly 3/32" thick. No centerless this or grinder that etc. I cannot tell you how many people wanted to re-invent the wheel and come up with a absolutely unnecessarily complicated method to achieve the same thing.

The problem I was having, was that we had hand hogged-out the venturis on the rochester 2gc's we were using as the secondary carbs on a progressive linkaged Pontiac Tri-power. We then bored the throttle body out to match the oversized venturis. The P.O.S. stamped sheetmetal butterflies that a BIG name California carburetor shop made did not seal worth a crud and was acting like a vacuum leak...totally unacceptable! When held up to a light, you could see daylight all around the butterflies!This was what we got, after telling them that sealing was our highest priority! The more perfect sizing combined with the thicker butterflies that Daddy and I utilized really did the trick!...and to think I used to hate math and geometry..ha ha ha!


Edited by Fasteddie455 (06/14/11 11:13 AM)

Top

Who's Online
4 registered (ACH57, 70Nova, Twisted6 I.I #3220, straight axle 63), 37 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TRQ427, pops, 65chevelle, boomer, Bob Doering
5754 Registered Users