Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance Is a water heated intake hot enough?

Application is '72 292 L6 in a pickup.
So I live in a fairly mild climate (NW Oregon)and just wondering if I'll have trouble getting the fuel air up to optimal temperature if I use the stock single rochester manifold with a water plate on the bottom.
I have a set of Stovebolt exhaust manifolds I'm wanting to try.

Is there ever a problem with the manifold getting too hot??

Tom Langdon, of the Stovebolt Engine Company, has assured me that the hot water heat (about 195F) is adequate. The purpose of heating the floor of the manifold is to vaporize the liquid fuel droplets that would otherwise accumulate on the floor of the manifold, especially directly under the carburetor. Using engine coolant as the heat source should never cause the manifold to get too hot, which can be a problem with exhaust heat if the diverter valve gets stuck in the position.

Water heat allows any manifold temperature between "normal" (as if, no heat) up to the thermostat temperature.
It's easy to regulate: just restrict the water supply pipe, but you shouldn't have to (except possibly July 4th, etc.).

Gungadin,
Having lived out here on the coast but also back east where it does get a little brisk in the winter, I can say, we don't even know what "cold" is out here. On v8 cars, I used to block the exhaust heat crossover even back in Michigan. A bit fussy in winter but it helped in the summer. (That should answer your 2nd question - YES, you can have "too much" heat, and the result is less power - it is only 1% or 2% but why give it up for free when we pay hundreds of dollars to get each small gain?)

The classic factory examples I can think of here that I've lived with are [a] the Ford Pinto and [b] the Triumph Spitfire. Both were inlines, neither had exhaust heat to the intake. The Pinto had water heat only and did just fine all across the nation. The Spitfire had no heat at all and again did just fine.

I do find out here that we can experience ICING - but that is due to lack of carburetor heat, not manifold heat. On the 283, Chev ran exhaust heat to the base of the carb just to guard against that. A closed snorkel air cleaner with a home-made heat stove will stop icing, you might build one for the Langdon's if needed, and just run it in the winter if it's ugly.

I wouldn't hesitate at all to run those Langdon's unheated out where we live. And they are doing quite well in Tom Lowe's "Dyno day for a 250" as you can read!

Thanks for your quick and comprehensive posts.
I have had problems in other applications with iceing and we dang sure don't want to go there again.
Interestingly, this engine runs great when it's cold. Just seems to want lots of gas to start.
I think I'll start with the stock intake/rochester plumbed to hot water (or not) and the Langdons into a single giant glasspack.
Maybe later try a 4V setup.

runs great when it's cold = too rich.

Makes perfect sense. I'll check it out.

Gungadin, I live in Ks. where we have extreme changes in temps within the course of one day. I have an Autolite 2100 on a clifford adaptor on my 250 and found that the snorkle aircleaner and heat stove were necessary to prevent icing....I follow duece coupes advice and remove the tube in the summer and remove and plug the vacuum hose to the trap door in the aircleaner....I ran a cold air duct to the radiator core support area for a while but did not see any real improvement in mileage....outside air temps can be 100+ in the summer so maybe there was not enough difference between ambient and underhood temps......fats

Well my air cleaner is OEM but the trap door and down pipe has been gutted and I have no clue what a heat stove might look like.
If anyone has inspirational pics of a warmed air setup might look like I would be grateful to see them. (and inspired!)

Any Ford, GM, Chrysler 1968-* air cleaner has all of it.

Has anybody ever made intake manifold itself? There was one instructions in santuccis book but is there any experience anybody? How important is the water heeting in manifold and how it´s possible to engineer if I wanna try DIY intake manifold. Most likely I´ll buy clifford intake, but I´m curious...

Here is an example.
http://www.sdsefi.com/techinta.htm


MBHD

The intake and headers on this 311 cube were fabricated by my cousin, Paul Fleming and myself.It has a 3/4" sq. tube running around the profile of the intake. The top plate started out as 1/2" alum. but has had some serious lightening, the top plate stays cold to the touch but the manifold and the runners stay around 190 deg and has fantastic throttle response. We have 2 more top plates, one for large base 2 G's (1 11/16") for a stack injection , and one for a 4 barrel. With 28 1/4" screws, just change the top plate, new carb set-up is easy.

Any pics?

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/album.php?u=41481 Try this , I hope I got it right.

Cool looking engine. Thanks for the pix.

Damn, it´s looking awesome! Really good looking! Thanks for the pics. Is manifold made by using Santuccis instruction or is it completely diy design from beginning to end? If there is more pics like fabrication pics please don´t hesitate to show them.

Can you post a pic here?

MBHD

We have the intake off right now and disassembled, Paul had a friend make a oval ported transition for the inside of it out of oak and has covered it with clear, I'll get some pictures this week end and send them in.

Skillet,
Can you start another subject about your engine? If I remember correct , it is a 311. looking at the pic's, it is made from a 250 block! I want to hear about it. Tom

Well hell I didn't know that the offy manifolds had a water jacket full length. I thought there was just a hollow under the carb !!!
I might not have started this whole thread if I had known.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=14335&pictureid=150028=====Sorry about the lapse, been down and out, finally making a good recovery. I'll drag the intake down off the shelf and take some new pictures and post them soon. I just finished my 32' Essex Terraplane Special Coupe and trying to sort it out.

The offey intake was ment to be used with the stock exhaust manifold that area is for heat Not water. If you make new plugs for the bottom and weld them in OR epoxy over the plugs that are there Then You can ad water to that intake. Other wise they will leak water.

Would a 1/2" or 3/4" hot water tube running under the runner transfer enough heat to work. Would it be better to run it through the log? I am converting an Offenhauser 3x1 L6 manifold to a 2X1 for an L4. It had exhaust heat under the center carb.

If you could weld one up to it,It should work.Or like i have in the past for the older clifford intakes,I'd take a 2x4x4 block of Billet mill it out and weld them to the base of the clifford intakes.I also did this to a daul clifford intake (dual 4b).

Ford made hot water carb heaters in the 60's in both 2 and 4 bbl. configurations that used the heater water. The larger cars and trucks seemed to be the main recipients so if you go the a junkyard start with them. Here's one on a ford 6., http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39801&start=0

This configuration seems to work OK. 3/8 OD hard lines plumbed from the port in the side of the head, under the carb, then to fitting threaded into the front of the water pump inlet. It's fabricated steel plate epoxied and screwed to the bottom of the manifold. I don't drive this car in cold weather so can't say how well it would do in cold. Manifold is cast iron.

When I cut the manifold apart today I was able to see the exhaust heat runners that are full length and under all three carb bases. Do you think I can get enough hot water through them to work? It wouldn't be hard to make the change. LINK

Beater

when you weld up the intake make you a plug for the one that is still showing in your Photo.And weld that up and you'll be just fine. The stock plugs on the offey intake will leak.Because those runners were only ment for Heat from the stock exhaust manifold.Like i said other then that you will be fine.
A 2cent thought If you have room think about maybe adding a small box/channel at the other plug and tap you a water outlet line there.Then you'll have full flowing water under the intake.

Larry, Are you talking about the expansion plug looking thing that has the 4 punch marks around it? Just weld it up? I was thinking welding a bung on each end for fittings. I just have to clear the header. I'll put a plate over the big hole and could put one fitting in it. Thanks, Beater

Yes
some have made a different plug and welded it in place,Others have just epoxyed it over.

OK, Thanks! That is not something I would have thought of till it started leaking.