Inliners International Forums General Discussion Drive Train Borg Warner R10

I found a Borg Warner R10 at a local scrapyard. I would like to use it in my 54 Chevy 3600. I'm worried about the internal condition due to the fact it has been sitting in the weeds for years. Are there bearing and seal kits available? Whatabout parts for the governor switch? I know the solenoids and relays are all available .
Chris

Chris, Is your pickup 6v or 12v? Are you still running the closed drive line? Bearings are all standard numbers and are available. Most internal parts for the R10 are out there. The R10 was the standard OD for many 40s-60s cars and pickups. Which BW trans is yours? Beater

I spotted a Gm 3speed with an R10 at the scrapyard. My truck has been converted to 12 volts and it is a 3/4 ton, so it has the open drive line. The scrapyard also had a couple Ford Trannies with the OD, pissibly T85 R11's, I'd have to go back and look. Is it possible to interchange parts with the R10 and R11s?

I don't think the parts are interchangeable because the R11 is stronger. The T85s are bullet proof. And with an R11 might be worth building an adapter. A three speed with an OD is fun to drive. I don't know if a 4 speed is worth it other than the obvious final drive ratio. Watch for the Studebaker T85s. They look like a Ford but the input shaft bushing area is bigger and longer. Sill good and the Stude guys love them. If you come across just the OD remember you nee the main shaft from the trans to make it work.

Well, needless to say, my "gears" are turning. I know the GM trans will bolt up with no problems. I don't plan on pulling stumps with the truck, so it should hold up just fine with a 6 cyl. in front of it. I may pick up the T85 also, just for the fun of it. I have an extra GM Bellhousing, and a Brother in law that is a machinist, so it may be fun to play around with.

Do some searches here. We have discussed this before. There is a group called the Old Berb Club, I think, and they have some articles on the Borg ODs that you will find interesting. Research the different ratios you trans came with to find the best for you. This LINK will keep you going for a while. Beater

I was thumbing through some old "Vintage Truck" magazines and came across some really in depth articles also. Lots of food for thought.

Thanks for the info, too!

Chris

There are many reasons to build and modify the vehicles we drive. Improved performance is one, but improved for what? If your main concern is 1/4 mile ETs a Borg OD is not right for you, On the other hand if saving wear and tear on your engine and reducing fuel consumption by 1/3 on your way to the Inliners International Convention in Carson City in June is a goal you are on the right track. You will have more $$ to drop in the slot machines here and I'll help you all I can. You may even save enough to get home! Beater

The way I understand it, the T-85 was the predecessor of the BW T-10. They made T-10's for GM application. So it is possible to put an R11 on the back of a GM T-10. I have one sitting about 7 feet behind me right now.

I haven't heard of that. I have a couple of T-85s with ODs. I would like to know more. We have discussed putting an OD on Saganaw 4 speeds. Some here run those.

Dont turn your back on one of them-They got a lotta ford in them, wait ,whats seven foot behind you? A T-10, or a R-11 o/d?

But good reasoning, and if they used T-85s in fords, then the r-ll has a good chance of being attached to the back of a Chevy T-10 (duh--thats just what you said).

The o/ds have an "adapter" plate that bolts up to the front case of the 3-speed, but I think a T-10 also has an adapter plate between its front case, and rear cases oops, the T-10's rear case houses reverse gear.

Might be that there's no room for a reverse, and that will require a little forethought while looking for a good parking space!

Studebaker used T-85s and T10s and they both had Ford bolt patterns. Some of the T-85s had ODs.

As a matter of fact I beleive the only chevy four speed with reverse in the front case is the all synchro saginaw four speed, cause the T-10s and the Muncies both have reverse gear stuck in the rear case, so no easy way to hang a B-W o/d offa them. Only the Sag can be done that way as we've seen.

I went to the junkyard again today. I couldn't resist! The bad news is that the GM trans with the R10 was locked up. I couldn't get anything to turn. Front shaft, rear shaft, shift levers, the Overdrive/frewheel lever did move though. I guess that happens when things are left out in the elements. The other transmissions were T86's and not T85's like I initially thought. They had R10F1-C overdrives and R10F1-A overdrives. Are the bearings and Planetary interchangable between the units? Could I possibly rebuild the GM unit with parts from the others?

I dont know to just about all your questions. Only known is that the R-11's are the stout units. I do have some chevy parts books that will have GM part numbers for the R-10 pieces. but I would not want to waste too much money or time on the R-10 units- I had one and let o/d cavity run dry. The planetary gears turned blue and stripped themselves of teeth and finally locked up the tail shaft and parked me in the middle of rush hour traffic, but for the 2.94 low gear and the old 261's torque we just manhandled the rest of what was left onto the side of the road. When we looked under the pick up, the old oil on the side of the tranny case was bubbling and smoking! After work and a trip home another crashbox was put in and driven home ( thank goodness for spares).

Does your '54 have a stock 235 in it? While a T85 is stronger I doubt that a regularly driven 235 would damage a T86. My son blew 3 T86s in his Studebaker wagon but they were behind a supercharged 289 Stude V8 driven hard for thousands of miles. The R10 OD was in Packards, Studebakers, Chevys, Kaisers, Buicks, Fords, Mercurys, Cadilacs, Hudsons, and many more. I've never seen a Borg OD that broke that wasn't abused. Basically an R10 has three planetaries and an R11 has four. I agree with the Preacher in that I wouldn't put a lot of money in a T86 OD. If you like to tinker and can get them cheap you can make them work. By cheap I'm thinking scrap price, nothing to lose. There are good ready to use tranys out there for a good price. Borg ODs are a classic and fun approach to reducing engine wear and improving gas milage. Our inlines have much to gain from a good OD. Beater

I was talking reeeeeeal nice to an old post high school buddy last night (trying to buy a'63 chevy ll rear axle assy). and the subject of B-w o/ds came up. He remembered years ago in a HRM that a fellow was trying to sell kits to attach R-11 to the back ends of Ford C6 automatics. This may have been the first mention of the differences of the two units. The Ford man in the article was putting them behind some pretty beefy Fe series (332?-427)motors.

Beatman, your mention of Packard reminds me that the earlier rodding generation used to say that the Packard could be put behing really stout OHV street rods. The o/d Packard could be had with a column shift or floor shift version. It seemed that they had a sychronized low gear-its been a while since I heard that conversation (50 years), maybe the fact that you can do that to an o/d while freewheeling made the oldtimer think that. He was a legendary welder in the Arlington,texas area. Lots of roundy-round guys would get him to weld up their spider gears- We would then call them Lee-lockers (as opposed to Detroit-Lockers).

In an era where early dragster still used Cadillac-La Salle trannys (second & high only) Mr. Lee (scotty-watty-watty-womp!) said the packard's only fault was a weak case. Mr. Lee said he had welded a seel strap around several Packard cases (never brazed- the hard way arc only) that were used behind big GMCs without failures.

Oh yeah, I got that rear end free! "The Orange Possum Special" may see daylight yet!!! (now I"m working on the "55 posi center section he has in another!)

"The Orange Possum Special" now that is funny I don't care who you are. I agree "a really stout" engine from back then would not make the cut today, but most of our engines are from back then so we're OK. Of course that old steel may not be as tough as it was in it's prime. I have a LaSalle that will hopefully end up behind my 331 Caddy. Some things are just right. How fast can you drive it on the street and stay out of jail anyway? I'm thinking that 331 in a roadster could push the limit and still let the LaSalle hang together. Good luck with the OPS! Beater

Now whats so funny about the "Orange Possum Special"?
Well I guess Johnny Cash may have laughed a lot taking the money to the bank after singing his hit version about that mighty train on the Southern Seaboard Line..
Me? Why, I dont care if I do die, do die, do die.

If Small block are mouse motors
And big blocks are rat motors
Then the longer six cylinder motors must be possums! by golly

Possum Liners International.