Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines lumps install to glue or not to glue ?????

well got my lumps in the other day from mike in florida. I,am gonna bolt them in as useual but mike suggested to me to also use some hi temp epoxy under them so I could blend the edges real nice. seeings as my engine is for a daily driver and not a race engine I,am still leanning on the epoxy. how do you fellas think on this matter and what brand epoxy do you'all use ?
thanks
bob

I think regular JB weld works pretty good. Not the JB Quick.

MBHD

I have a 292 with Sissell'as installed Lump Ports and no problems. If you can find the correct adhesive that with stands both heat and vibration I would think the glue idea would work fine. But I'd sure suggest you try the adhesive using the same metals as a test bed first. The heat from a torch should give you the temperatures you would look for and the vibrations can come from air driven jitter bug sander.
Normbc9

i believe the screw along with regular J B WELD will do the trick, not the "quick "Type

JB Weld makes an industrial grade for high temps which is what I would use. The local hardware did not have it in stock but was happy to order it for me. Perhaps overkill but that is just me.

I fit my lumps to the ports as best I could. Blue, check fit, file some off or grind off a high spot in the port, blue, check fit, repeat until there are minimal gaps and good contact all around. I'm not saying epoxy is a bad idea, just that I chose extra fitting effort instead.

I,AM ALSO GONNA DO THE FITTING BEFORE I EPOXY THEM IN THEN DRESS THEM UP AFTER INSTALL. THANKS FOR THE PIC'S. VERY HELPFUL......
BOB

I would be worried about stuff coming loose over time and getting injested. That small gap is going to cause only a very small loss of flow. Negligible.

There hasn't been an epoxy developed yet that will not chip or flake off when exposed to the conditions inside the intake ports. Plus, you have two different materials that expand at much different rates constantly growing and shrinking against each other breaking away at the epoxy. Don't be surprised if you look inside the ports in just a short time and see some epoxy missing. A better, tighter fitting lump is the best solution.

Many professional head shops have found this stuff to be the very best, most durable 2-part compound available:

Z-SPAR
A-788 SPLASH ZONE COMPOUND

In my personal experience best results are obtained by grinding away the cast iron "skin" which contains impurities, with a rough 80 grit tootsie roll. And clean the surface with acetone solvent or equivalent before application.

A quote from their product literature:

"Splash Zone Compound, A-788. With near magical properties, Splash Zone epoxy fits the needs of boaters, marinas, coastal home owners and race engine builders! It can be mixed and applied underwater and will cure underwater as well as in the air. This product is great for racing vehicles since it also stands up to heat, vibration and fuel on port intake manifolds."

From my lips...

If it were me, I would forgo the lump port inserts and build the lumps totally out of solid Z-SPAR.

I don't know what Hogan uses, but I would expect them to be at the top of the game when it comes to the epoxy they use. I have seen there intakes start to lose epoxy after only 3-4 dyno pulls. I think its the mismatching of materials that causes the issues more than anything in the lump situation. I agree, a lump made from the epoxy material completely might be a better solution if you are going to use epoxy at all.

Something used in other engines to add adhesion is to drive/drill/press pins into the floor of the port to make a scaffold for the epoxy, roughen the port texture as much as possible, including grinding small depressions (divots) that the epoxy will fill.

Like this? Here is my intake taper transition:

Nice job stroker six

The small gap at the edges Is NO different then the Hole for the head bolt. THERE is NO loss Or Gain by filling it. It will flow just the same.In all the years of me Redesigning and in desiging the New T6G2 lump we also did the same test of filling the hole.
And once again we found NO difference in flow even with the new T6G2 design.All you need to do is Just Bolt the lump in place.And not to worry about useing the epoxys.

If you are going to just use epoxy.
You would use a mig welder to the cyl head intake ports.

Use several tack welds & leave short pieces of the wire so the epoxy has something to grab onto.

Grind/contour/port to your liking then.

MBHD

The air moving thru the intake manifold and ports is much different than water moving thru a pipe or tube. The water is in contact with all the inside surfaces of the pipe or tube. Air moving thru the ports and head is rarely any closer than .060"-.080" to any of the inside surfaces(roof, floor, walls) as it passes thru, so epoxy filling the cracks is really of no benefit if you are thinking it does anything to enhance flow. Ever see a wind tunnel test where they introduce smoke to show the air turbulence over a car body....wheres the smoke trail....3"-6" inches above the body, not right against it. Same is true inside of a port. Ever have a bug or leaf on your windshield while your going 60 MPH down the road and wonder why it doesn't blow off....

"From my lips...."

Been away a while, but am I (less see too, two, to, oh yeah) too late to ask, What did it taste like?

airplane term "boundary layer". And what an interesting example of describing it (with the bug) I just thought they had an unbelieveable super power death grip.

I did have a V8 in an early chevy ll that would come outta th hole so fast that every 6 months or so I had to cut the paint of th trunk that had slid back, and put it back on the front end of the then bare hood. So there's "boundary layer"; "inertia"; and "b.s". I think the latter is stronger than the former.(and middle too)

Now that is funny!

How did you get the paint to stick when you put it back? Was it heavy enough to cause a weight transfer to the rear wheels when it was in the rear position? Did you remove it in chunks or thin sheets. I'm curious about this because I've had so much trouble getting my '53 pickup painted that I am thinking of taking the paint off of a car at the wrecking yard and adapting it to fit my pickup. I'll go Saturday and see what the charge for paint. Maybe a nice two tone. Beater

i used thinned out jb weld (looked just like gray primer), and it was factory red lacquer, so it was pretty light, probably why there were no wheel stands, like Dickie Harrel did with his '65 model!

You need to be real careful 'cause it will crack real easy--best do it on a real still day.

Good luck "How high's th water momma?

I,AM GOING TO BOLT AND J.B. WELD MY LUMPS IN PLACE.

Now that is a good choice since you are going to use epoxy anyways.
No reason to yell though.

I have used JB weld on my 2 stroke MC engines when I used to road race them.
The JB weld got exposed to 2 stroke oil & race fuel,pump gas & had minimal flaking.
When I would see a piece missing, I would just cartridge roll the area & reapply JB.

These areas had no lump to squeeze down onto the JB, it was just right in the airstream w/really nothing to hold onto but the aluminum or cast iron surface itself.
Meaning, if your lumps would be squeezing/holding down the JB weld, I am sure it will last a long time.


MBHD

That's funny right there.

I didnt mean to yell. i have bad eyes (diabetic) and small type is fuzzy.
bob

Not a problem.
Can you make the screen a bit bigger so you could see it better?
You can hold the control/CTRL button on the keyboard & hit the + button or, hold the control button & scroll on the mouse wheel.
You probably already know that though.