Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected Turbo 6 Intercooler ?

Hey guys,
I have been doing some digging into turbo'n my 6.

What are the pro's / con's as to the inlet & outlets ?

Same side inlet & outlet verses opposing sides ?

Do they flow the same ?

How about plumbing, easier with one or the other.

Thanks for your insight,
Stu

A cross flow intercooler usually will flow better than one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/31-25-X13-X3-25-...=item3cc0e76d61
There is a 180 degree turn in this type of intercooler, bad for flow, & will give you pressure drop, more so on one of these type intercoolers.

Routing tubing, it's easier to plumb smaller diameter tubing.
Depending on your goals & how much power you plan on getting decides to intercooler size you would need.
After you pick the size intercooler you want, get the same size tubing.

I will run a cross flow intercooler, it's not hard to plumb & I ran 45 degree mandrel bent bends as not to hurt airflow/pressure drop as 90 degree bends will do.





MBHD

Thank you for the info and picture post.

That was what I kind of what I had heard, but wanted to hear it from someone that is in the know.

My car has some seriously cramped quarters so I will have to very creative.

Here is vehicle in question:


Engine bay as it sits right now:




This picture below is of my 62 wagon engine bay for folks to get a look at what I'm dealing with.


Thank you Sir,
Stu

Yes those Chevy 2's have a small engine bay.

I have been telling guys to put the turbo on the other side (passenger side) if they need more room.

Here is an example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFajr4QgARk&list=FLC47WILAMLZIhl7pE8DUelg&index=3&feature=plpp_video
but dont copy it. Plumbing is a bit weird,but seeing this can get an idea.
There are some problems they are having w/fuel freezing.

MBHD

I saw that video a while ago.
Looks to me like a fustercluck.

I'm thinking I'll run a 292 exhaust manifold, then run a tube foreward of the shock tower for the turbo mount.

That was one of my hidden adjendas(sp) in my first questions about inlet/outlet on an intercooler.

Thanks,
Stu

Ha Ha,
it is very funny how people come up w/ideas.

Cant seem to find bosanova posts, he has an early Nova & modded the stock exhaust & intake manifolds to fit his turbocharger.
Clean install!

It made some good power also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DsmPcLbuRg


MBHD

Stu,
I have used this intercooler in my car.
intercooler

I see these on ebay and also the knockoff versions. Flow is great as is the cooling effect.

Also help with plumbing to keep it on the same side of car.

That is a much better design.
The one I posted are the ones you want to stay away from.
This is the same as I have: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Front-Mount-Turb...=item4cf8e4c0c5

It's bigger than my water radiator.

MBHD

MBHD, seen that video a few times.
If someone has contact info for the owner I would greatful for the information.

tlowe, this is one that I had origionally looked at: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BAR-PLATE-1-SIDE...=item2a17116d96
For the exact reason you said...to keep plumbing all on the same side.

Here are some key issues:

Must be no wider than 2.5" (I'll still have to do some cutting on the core support & grill brackets to shoehorn it in there)
If I use an intercooler like in my link, and tlowe's, then the entire radiator will be blocked by the cooler.

If I run a wider/shorter one like in this kit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/260922156233?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
then I won't be blocking radiator flow as much.

tlowe, thanks for the return phone call last month, I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row before I pull the plug.

Thanks guys,
Stu

There is nothing wrong w/running a intercooler the same size of your radiator.
Unless you are boarder line now from cooling the engine properly.
It might make it run a bit hotter, not by much though IMO.
Your engine will still get cooling air to it.
The factory 6 cyl radiator is small.

I am into doing whatever it takes to cool down the intake temps & a small air to air intercooler does not cut it in my book, but to each his own.
If you run a small or large intercooler I am an advocate of using 100% methanol injection also.

I was data logging my Syclone a few nights ago, about 60 degree F temps outside, intake manifold temps were in the high 80's to 90's, I was running up to 26 psi w/intake manifold temps of 59 degrees F spraying methanol, nice & chilly from the methanol, just the way the engine loves it.
BTW, this was done w/the crappy pump 91 octane gas we have here.
Methanol,,,, it's like running race gas w/out the race gas price.
This the the kit I use: http://mysite.verizon.net/res11pgkr/vehicles/tysyclone.html

You can install a wider radiator in your Nova also.
W/minmal mods my friend installed a radiator for a 75 Camaro.
He was also running a SBC 400 w/11.5:1 compression.

Nothing to it but some cutting of the front core support & a couple simple pieces of sheet metal brackets.

Not saying you need a radiator that big as my friend used, just saying, dont let the small radiator support opening stop you from have a larger radiator or intercooler or both.

MBHD

Understood.
Just need to get some measurements and figure out what will work best for my situation.

Here is the radiator I'm running in my other wagon.

Champion 3 row core Radiator part # CC2374 good for up to 500hp

Unfortunately it's to thick to run with my 6 cyl. so I'll end up getting a 2 core version.

Honestly MBHD I don't know alot about the Methanol injection.

FWIW here is a link to my 62 Chevy II Wagon 300/327/B-W ST10 car: http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162046

This post about intercooler/turbo is for my other Wagon: 65 Chevy II 100 series 6 cyl/glide.

Thank you,
Stu

JDM intercooler arrived today.
Rated up to 600 hp.
One problem....it's actually 3" in depth.
Suppose to be 2.5"
Gonna have to do some metal relieving bigtime now.

Stu,
even though you do not know about the methanol injection now, does not mean you should not look into it IMO.

I recently datalogged my Syclone running 26 PSi of boost pressure with the methanol injection on, running 91 octane pump gas I saw the intake temps of 65 degrees F. After I let off the throttle, the temps went even lower to 44 degrees F. The outside air temps were about 65 degrees F.

I hope to get this tuning stuff dialed in pretty close before I do some dyno tuning w/it.
Hope to make about 400 HP to the wheels.

Your intercooler looks nice, having the depth a 1/2" thicker will allow for better airflow (less boost loss)it will be worth the trimming of some sheet metal IMO.

Goodluck!

MBHD

Shiny little booger. You have dimensions for the whole thing?

I will definately be digging into the meth injection.
tlowe gets the first pile of $$ for the rebuild parts on the 6 cyl then I can start on the actual turbo install.

Anyone know of any reason I could/should not mount the intercooler with the inlet/outlet on top ? Rather than on bottom.
Does it seriously make a difference ? (FNG question right?)

Thanks,
Stu

Intercooler dimentions are 18.5" x 11.75" x 2.5"

Width(inlet and outlet flange) and over all height are correct, but the the actual depth is 3.0"

tlowe, got your email yesterday....time to save up some $$$.

Stu

You can mount the inlet or outlet on top.
It does not make a difference.
Just put it in a place where it gets cool air flow to it.

MBHD

Cool, thanks.
Not sure which way I'm going to have to mount it.
Will have to wait and see how the turbo gets clocked and then adjust accordingly.
Just wanted to check as a back up.

Stu

Stu,

Lets see some specs & pics of the turbo.


MBHD

Roger that.
T4 Turbo that I am interested in: http://www.ebay.com/itm/150749101097?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Not to expensive, but not a cheep one either.

Here is the fuel system I am considering: http://www.ebay.com/itm/390379707819?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Oil feed/return line: http://www.ebay.com/itm/120839001121?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

BOV/wastegate: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200651235184?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Digging into these things, really don't know alot about them: http://www.ebay.com/itm/350500434329?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

These are not a definate, just ideas.

Thanks,
Stu

I'm tracking ya.
Yes, I am on a budget but then again really do not want to purchase stuff twice.

How about this BOV kit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TURBOSMART-Vee-P...=item3a6eef16c0

Here are the engine build specs:
250 cid +.40 Zero decked
Ross forged piston - tlowe
ARP main studs
Stock rods worked over with ARP bolts
Small Competition Cams turbo cam - tlowe
1.84 valve kit - tlowe
lump port kit - tlowe
Port & polish head
ARP head studs
Competition Cams pro magnum roller rockers - tlowe
Full balance
Deck head for compression
(I know I'm forgetting stuff, list is in the shop, I'm in the house)

Target compression: 8:75/1 - 9:0/1
Target HP: 270-280

Trans right now is a slip & slide that will be changed out to a 200r4

Intercooler as seen in above picture.

Battery will be relocated to spare tire hole in back of wagon to make room for intercooler tubing.

3" exhaust system

Rear end is a factory 5 lug 10 bolt w/308 at this time.

Eventually CPP sub frame kit' front disc brakes with dual master cylinder similar to my other wagon, & weld in sub frame connectors.

That wastegate & BOV are good choices.

I would think the .040 over pistons that Tlowe sells would bump up your compression w/out requireing for you to mill your cyl head?
The turbo you are looking @ http://www.ebay.com/itm/150749101097?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
does have a pretty good size turbine wheel & the A/R on the turbine housings are big also (which is great for exhaust flow) ,but will also require a looser stall torque converter.

The turbo I recomended for snowmans build has a smaller turbine wheel diameter of : 61.91 /69.28 MM's (the one you are looking @ 74.2 Major/64.7 Exducer.) also a smaller compressor wheel 56.59/74.23 MM's as compared to the one you are looking @
59.0 Inducer/76.2.
Snowman gets full boost by 2800 RPM, I would guestimate if he installed the turbo you are looking @ on his engine, it probably would not get to full boost by minimum 3400 RPM w/the .84 A/R turbine housing & w/the 1.0 A/R turbine housing, it will be even higher up to reach full boost.
Ganted, his engine is stock & your engine will breath better.

So basically saying, the turbo you are looking @ will be able to make more power, but the stall needed to get to full boost will need to be pretty high. Which is fine, & is totally streetable even w/a 3400 - 3600 stall converter,I recomend a lock-up converter just run a good trans cooler.
You do not need to run that high of stall converter, example, you could run a 2400 stall, but, most likely, you will not be able get much boost when brake stalling the engine, guestimating the boost you could get is 5-8 psi range, which is fine if you are not looking for all out high PSI boost launch.

( Not sure what you are looking for as far as for turbo lag, a lot, a little, or no lag @ all? )

MBHD

Stu,

it seems those pistons from Tlowe, will provide a 9.87 compression ratio with a 70CC chamber.

Your chamber is probably about 74CC will give a 9.44CR
Both scenarios is still higher than you want as far as your Target compression of 8:75/1 - 9:0/1

You can open up your chambers to get the desired compression ratio.
It's been a while since I opened up my large chamber cyl head, but IIRC, I believe it is @ 80 CC's. It's still in my car & that is the cyl head I am going to turbo charge for now.

If you do not plan on running a lot of boost pressure IE more than approx 12-15 psi, I would shoot for 9.25:1 cmpression ratio.

That way the turbo will spool faster, not be sluggish, better mileage, if any of those are any concerns.
Something to think about.

BTW, what are the specs on your camshaft?

MBHD


MBHD

Understood.
Running slightly higher compression might be a good idea.
9.25 sounds realistic since I won't be pushing it over 15 psi.
Lots of stuff to figure out thats for sure.

Here's a link to the cam I'm getting from Tlowe: http://12bolt.com/250292_products/camshafts

I'll be running the "small lift turbo cam".

Thanks,
Stu

By opening the chamber and a minimal straightening cut on the head, over 74 CC can be achieved. Probably 76 CC.
That higher than stock compression will make it a responsive engine.

Thanks for your help guys.
I'm slowly getting things nailed down.

Now just need to ship more product out the door and sell a couple of things and we are on our way.

tlowe...how much taller is your PES valve cover/adaptor than a factory one ?
Need to know so I can figure out a spacer to get my air intake plenum higher to clear it for the turbo.
Will a 2" spacer like this be enough ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/400275084081?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
This is what I will be running, minus the air cleaner:


Thanks again,
Stu

Bump up on this thread guys.
Sorry been so long.
I have a good run of bad luck starting in March of 2012 and in 6 months burried 7 family members/friends.

Starting to get back into the grove of things now with my wagon.

First priority is to get the Ol'girl running.
I basically walked away from the wagon 13 months ago.

Thanks,
Stu