Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines Newbie in need of experience rebuilding 235

Hey guys, I'm in need of some advice and a lot of experience here. I recently came into possession of a '58 Chevy that belonged to my grandfather. The car has 60,000 miles on it and runs ok at the moment. As far as I am aware the block and head have never been removed or tampered with in anyway. My grandfater has late stage Alzeimers disease and can not help me to restore this car any longer. With the car he left me a fairly extensive collection of parts and tools.

My goal is to restore this car to nearly original condition, but also have a few authentic street rod tweaks without going overboard with new technology. I would like to set up the inline six like a young street rodder in the late 50's and early sixties would have done if the Delray with an inline 6 was all he could afford. I'll post a list of engine components and some pictures along with a video of the engine running. I know that right now the exhaust is almost shot, but besides that she still runs great so I would like to keep her running as long as possible and keep the original block with the car. I have never rebuilt anything before so this will be a learning experience for me but I hear the 235 is a great engine to start out on. My grandfather also left me the Chevy shop manuals for this year and engine, along with a few "speed manuals". There are a few rebuild kits for various components, an assortment of filters, and two complete gasket and fastener sets for the engine. Thanks for the help and advice, just dropping the car off at shop is not an option since I am on a budget. Thanks for the help guys, I don't know where to start or what components are worth keeping and rebuilding, and which ones should be sold or otherwise disposed of.

THE LIST:

Bone stock engine in the car (Runs fine, 60,000 miles)
Complete spare 235 on engine stand (unknown condition, casting no. 3837004)

Fenton cast iron headers (new)
Edelbrock aluminum double intake (For a 216 maybe?)
1 spare radiator (rebuilt)
2 spare carb (need rebuilt)
1 spare double action fuel pump (rebuilt I think)
2 spare generators (very rusty)
1 spare water pump (very rusty)
1 spare distributor (very rusty)
1 spare starter (very rusty)
1 spare fuel pump (rusty)
2 3 speed overdrive transmissions (both need electronics and to be overhauled)

My questions are:

What parts are worth keeping?
What parts should I swap out for better components?
What should I sell/throw out?
Where should I start working on this engine without having it undrivable for more than a month?
Is it alright to rebuild the spare head and install the whole thing when its ready?
Should I stay hands off until something breaks?
Should I admit I'm in over my head and run while I can?

My desire is to end up with a 235 painted in the original color, with a dual intake and exaust using rochester carbs, and short glass pack mufflers. I would like to put the stock rocker cover back on, and use chrome/stainless hardware sparingly. I would like to use only parts available in the late 50's to early 60's so that the end result is a halfway authentic 50's style street rod. Once I get down to rebuilding the block itself I'd like to put in a better cam and possibly have the cylinders bored out a tad as long as it doesn't detract from the look of the exterior or require extensive modifications or professional installation of parts after it leaves the machine shop. I'm not looking for a hot rod or something to race on county roads, just something nice to cruise around town in the evenings and make a little noise from time to time. Thanks again for the help and advice, every little bit helps especially personal experience and even just your opinions.

Here is a crappy video so you can hear the engine running. It has a click in the front, a worn rod or bad lifter perhaps? The exhaust is totally rusted out, once I get the Fenton headers on I can have that fixed. When the car is warmed up and the hood is closed you can't even hear it running unless you are behind the exhaust pipe.
http://youtu.be/wWI2TncMLCM


Engine... my grandpa had some fun in here, I'll be removing the horns but maybe putting the wolf whistle back in later. I'm going to put a stock valve cover back on it.


Some original paint remains on the side cover, I'll probably repaint the whole engine someday.


Spare engine, I think its a '57 from the casting numbers.


Fenton headers...


Aluminum intake, maybe for a 216? I could get the fenton model that comes with the linkage to replace it.


One overdrive transmission...


Two overdrive transmissions.


Two carbs in need of being rebuilt. The both have different chokes, one has a hot air choke like the one already in the car I think.


Spare radiator, the one in the car is rebuilt as well. That is a funny story.


Rusty parts, are they worth rebuilding as spares?


Rusty parts in a bucket. Again I'm not sure if they are worth working on.

If it has good compression, good oil pressure, and no visible smoke: if it ain't broke don't fix it.
There is an unfortunate tendency to "take it apart to replace the dried out gaskets". That's a week's worth of work to save $1. worth of oil.

More important:
Have you driven the car?
Do you like it?
Does it need other repairs (front end, brakes, driveshaft, rear end, shocks, gas tank, wiring, steering box)?
It's not going to be much faster than it is now without a lot of work. The stuff you have won't add more than 30 hp.
Completely rebuilding it from the crank up can easily run $2,000 and adds this much power: zero.

If it was me, I'd keep everything until you accomplish what you are trying to do. I agree that tearing it completely apart may not be necessary. I see you have a '57 3sp OD trans. That's golden. Use it if you can.

Thanks for the answers guys.

I have driven the car, but everything on it needs work. What I have on hand are engine parts, and I cannot afford to buy a new interior or pay for the body work and paint it needs.

I could wait to rebuild the engine until it starts having more pronounced issues but I will only have the storage unit with all the parts for about a year, and when the unit goes I can't keep most of the parts due to lack of space. I think that in a year I could have a lot of work done without having to park the car for more than a month, I just don't know where to start. I'm not looking for a hot rod, just a car that looks well kept and planned out under the hood and I will feel comfortable driving on the highway 50+ miles from home about once a month.

I could work on the body or the interior but those problems can only be resolved by having money thrown at them, and doing so won't help me clear out the storage unit or make sure the car is reliable enough for highway driving. Last time it went on the highway the fuel pump died and before that I think a generator died, but that was back in 06 after it had sat in a barn for 15 years. Here are a list of the repairs you listed, some of them I remember from my grandfather 5 years ago and others I noticed this last week since I pulled it out of the unit:

*The clutch is very worn and the speedometer has a pronounced "bounce" to it at speeds below 20. The plan was to try and fix this when the transmission was rebuilt.
*The exhaust is rusted out and small leaks are forming everywhere. This would be fixed when the dual exhaust goes on.
*Brakes have all been rebuilt as has the master cylinder.
*The drive shaft appears ok, I figured I'd replace it when the transmission comes out.
*The shocks are brand new, all the bushings on the weird suspension appear ok for the moment.
*The wiring seems fine and the gas tank is solid with a new sending unit.
*The steering is misaligned and pulls a bit to the right, but I have a rebuilt steering box with the other parts. i was going to fix this when I had the intake and exhaust off so I had more room.
*The rear end leaks out of the main seal, I have a replacement gasket... Not sure why grandpa never installed it... Both it and the transmission are filled with gear grease and not the oil suggested in the manual due to the slow leaks.

I'm not looking to make it "fast" about 65 is as high as I would go and that's all I do on the highway anyways. I'd just like to get it reliable, cleaned up and organized under the hood and make sure its not going to randomly croak on me and end up parked in a field. I can worry about getting the body and interior redone once I know I won't have to come back to the mechanical components for a while.

Thanks again for replies.

Neat car, What body style is it, and what trim level- like Biscayne, Bel-air, etc.
Get a rebuilt pressure plate/disc if the clutch slips, and at installation time put in a new throw-out bearing while youre there.
If transmission makes no broken tooth noises or bearing noises- dont mess with it-on'58s you do not have rear motor mounts, so you have to place a jack under the oil pan sump to support the motor when pulling the trans. Std tranny is medium heavy- the o/ds are what separates the men from the boys while trying to stab the the tranny in place. Dont be ashamed to have it on a floor jack or something. '57 o/d wont work in '58 body (no rear motor mont on trans like othe picture- both are longer trannys and will require shorter driveshaft (I think '58s are two piece-will need shorter (4-speed style-maybe PowerGlide will work) front shaft.
Look into the rear main "rope" style and you'll probably see why he did'nt mess with it-I have seen a two piece neoprene type but dont know how good they are- still have to get old one out!
The wierd suspension pretty much was unchanged up thru 1964 and the rear ends withstood 425 hp 409s with the help of an extra upper control arm.
The speedo "bounce" indicates the need for cable lube or a kinked cable housing. Swap meet strff. Easily done later.
No need messing with driveshaft as long as its not bent.
The steering box probably has nothing to do with the pulling problem-steering boxes just dont wear out, they sometimes just need a little adjustment to take care of some play- see some manual factory-maybe Motors, or Chilton)for instructions
When you take rear end "center section" out to replace gasket, (requires pulling axles) be sure to look on edge of ring gear for the tooth count listing example "10-37" which would be a 3.70 (or you could phyically count both the ring teeth and the pinion teeth) A good canidate for the o/d tranny would be a 4.11,possible a 3.70, anything numerically lower would have very doggy performance, as these cars can weigh in at 3600# and up and be a bit embarassing with a load of people.
A 235 motor's intake port is 1-1/2" dia (I think)and a 216 is smaller-maybe 1-3/8", the intake could be "opened up" that much to save tracking down another intake. Edelbrocks are not that common on sixes- I like the water heating plate. Many people use a pair of 216 carbs- but in the tech tips portion of this site there is some good words on using your 235 carbs as well. I would be afraid to use any thing hotter than a stock cam due to the weight of the car. (an' I do love the lope of a nice cam)- far and away the best for these old stovebolts would be a McGurk grind- most of his stuff was designed for good street performance. But dont get crazy, best not get hotter than his 3/4 cam stuff for the heavier car... its hard pulling a six cylinder cam (long)while in the body. The two carbs will work o.k. on the stocker. Another thing, you already have hydraulic lifters and I dont think anybody makes a hyd. cam for these old motors yet. The McGurk would be a solid lifter cam (noisy and needing periodic resetting of lifters).
Lastly, loose the oil filter--(WHAT?) just change your oil faithfully at about 3,000 miles max. Uncountable numbers of stovebolts did not have one of those "by-pass" filters and build the longlife reputation these motors enjoy. The filter will distract from the twin carbs (and be difficult to mount).

Looks like a fun project!

Wow thanks for all the info!

Its a Delray 2 door sedan, I think it was the second cheapest model in '58 and the utility sedan or Brookwood were the only lower models. I like the look of the car without all the extra chrome, makes it look more sleek.

I do have another speedo cable and one of the plastic gears, maybe swapping that out would fix the speedometer.

The steering box leaks like crazy and is filled with very heavy grease at the moment. Since I already have a rebuilt one I was going to swap them out (eventually) and then send in the worn one for a $100 refund. For now I'll see if I can tighten it up and readjust it.

I found out at a place here in Wichita that the intake is indeed a 216 model, I was just gonna put it up for sale and get the Fenton dual intake and replace the Langdon heater plate with Fenton's model since it hooks right into the headers. I will probably stick with the 235 carbs, I already have 2 total and wouldn't want to deal with the hassle of finding another matched pair.

Getting rid of the oil bypass filter sounds fine to me. I've also been thinking about setting up a positive crankcase ventilation system, I've seen some guides that make it look easy. Does it really help keep the oil cleaner?

If the speedo works, then the plastic gear is o.k. just the cable housing is bad, causing the cable within not to turn smoothly- maybe pull out the cable from the trans end, oil the cable or rub light grease on it and try it. There are plastic gears with all kinds of tooth counts that go with certain rear gear ratios to make speedo read right, so dont just go replacing it just because.
I guess if the steering box leaks a bunch, thats a good reason to switch out, especially to get the $100 bucks back.
The Pcv system will certainly keep the outside of the motor clean since no oil vapor will be settling all around the motor. I never heard the claim that it will keep the oil cleaner, it certainly cant make it dirtier. The more cylinder wear the motor has - the more "blowby" the engine will make. This is why the road draft tubes tend to make the outside of old motors so greasey. I once saw a '58 cheap body six from Calif. with a Calif mandated pcv system added to it. It had a pretty clean exterior. From your pictures your motor was either recently washed up nice or else it has very little "blowby" indicating a good tight motor (little cylinder wear)
The old filters were not of the full flow type, so a lot of the oil never passed thru it, so they did not do much for cleaning the oil-but It could be said that every little bit helps. A long time ago My dad and I went thru an 83,000 mile old '54 235 with no filter, but had a life time of regular non-detergent oil changes, and the bores went back std, and one rod bearing had just a half thousand journal wear and so all bearings also went back together with std size.
Old cars can hold up good, if they are cared for! Oh yeah, dont bother trying to find non detergent oil- detergent oil works fine. The detergent oil tends to keep the dirt in suspension, to help prevent sludge collections inside the motor- and do run a thermostat, (180 is good) let the motor run nice and warm, as this prevents moisture from condensation from contaminating the oil, and also contributing to the sludge buildup.