Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected want to turbo my 230 I6. 15k mi. on stock rebuild

i have a 230 I6 in my Chevelle and i want to turbo it. The guys at the Jalopy Journal sent me here because there was supposedly someone who makes exhaust manifolds that bolt right to the turbo. I need to know what i need to do this swap. I keep hearing T3 turbo but really dont know. all stock motor, including 150cfm monojet carb.

Here is the best place to get the manifolds. Probably the best price too.
http://www.designengineering.com/catalog/spa-turbo-usa/turbo-manifolds/chevy
A T3 will probably work fine on the little 230. I prefer a T4 for 250 and 292. They allow more choices for exh housing and turbine sizes.
Snowman has just done this to his car using a 292 truck manifold and cheap Chinese turbo parts. Worked good till the stock shortblock decided not to play.

what exactly would i need to do a turbo swap? intercooler, wastegate, new intake man. and carb. what else? and how much boost should i run to be safe?

its got stock crank and rods bus silvalite pistons and im just looking to get a little more power. im at 150 now and i basically doing this to be different because i like the inliners.

please give me any words of wisdom and equipment i would need. how hard would it be to do an external wastegate? i want to be able to hear the shift haha

I think you are confusing the wastegate to the blow off valve?

Cranking compression is 150 PSI?

MBHD

His stock hp is 150.

Why don't you checkout getting a used carbed version of the buick 3.8 turbo setup. Easiest bolt on and will "fit " the 230 Inline.

Looks like this.

Parts of the set-up,not complete:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-3-8-Turbo-...55213ac&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-81-Pontiac-...3f78fe0&vxp=mtr

MBHD

sorry hank. has 150 hp and yes i was confusing those too. apologies.

No problem.
If you can fabricate some parts or have friends that can help you or? You can use a blow through set-up.
I helped Snowman w/his project, it is pretty basic & simple to do a blow through.
https://www.inliners.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=59760#Post59760

But if you want a simpler draw through set-up that can be made to bolt on w/minimal mods, the above post showing the 3.8 V-6 Regal/Monte Carlo or a 301 V-8 1980-81 Pontiac turbo charger set-up will both work for you.

If you look around you can find them, try & get a complete running system.

Also, I would highly recommend some sort of methanol/water injection system especially w/a draw through set-up?
Example: http://mysite.verizon.net/res11pgkr/vehicles/customkit.html

MBHD

the problem is that with this one barrel carb i am about a half inch from the hood. now i know i will be getting a different carb but i dont know if ill be able to run a draw through system.

I am not sure , but the height of a 3.8 or 301 draw through turbo set-up would be pretty low overall.


MBHD

alright. so far i have been told to acquire a new intake man, exh. man, carb, turbo, intercooler, and possibly meth syst. anything else?

someone tell me if this looks like a good investment?

The turbo in the kit is prety small.
I would like you to get a turbo that has Turbine wheel diameter of @ least these measurements 61.91 /69.28 both in MM.


The one I picked out for snowman would be a better choice.
http://www.godspeedproject.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=805

On Ebay, IIRC, he got it for about $310.00?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/gt35-t4-turbo-ch...d58c834&vxp=mtr
Most of the T3 turbos on Ebay are too small for our 6 cylinder engines, you need to look harder to find a better sized turbo for our applications.
Here is a T4 turbo w/same specs for less: US $266.35
I actually like this one better for your 230 engine. It has a devided exhaust entry, if the pic is correct. The compressor cover looks nicer also, more sturdy looking IMO. http://www.ebay.com/itm/GT35-GT-35-T4-A-...f3e57cb&vxp=mtr

The rest of the stuff in the link to the kit looks OK small intercooler., but it is not one of the better products to use.

This kit appears to be better,,, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-GT35-T...6d58d5e&vxp=mtr

BUT, the turbos turbine wheel is too small.
You do not need 3" intercooler pipeing, but if you have the room to use it.

How much power do you want to make?

MBHD

i honestly dont know what kind of power im going to get. i was told not to run over 10 lbs of boost. how much power would i be looking at?

You could run 15 PSI or more , if the engine does not detonate.

If you want to just run low boost & are not expecting to make a lot of power.

You can still use the turbo I recommended & keep the boost low.

7-10 psi would be doable & very easy.

10 PSI on a stock 230 engine,,,hmmmm, hard to say, what size carb? it will vary a lot. 180-330 HP range at the flywheel as a guestimate.
Depends on what mods you plan on doing. Head work, bigger carb, different camshaft?

If you are saying keeping the 230 all stock basically & add a intercooler & turbo? 180-200ish HP.
The torque is what is going to go up much more than HP when adding a turbo & not doing anything else.
Also, torque it you would feel the most when you are trying to accelerate. That is a plus to have gobs of torque & that is what exactly what a turbo will do for you.

MBHD

i was planning on doing a new carb and intake. nothing with the camshaft, not yet at least. i am pitting in HEI and geting a new intake, carb, exh. man. thats about it.

OK, w/an intake & carb, turbo & intercooler, that will give you a big boost in power.

MBHD

do you think if i put on a 550 cfm Holley 4bbl and the turbo, what kind of power would i be looking at?

With no performance cam or head work you shouldn't get your hopes up too high about power increase regardless of how much boost you end up running. You are probably going to be at the lower end of Hank's guesstimate for power, but a cam change and headwork can really bring this engine alive.

what kind of cam and head work?

You will need to consider installing larger valves and a performance valve job and install the bolt-in lumps into the intake ports and some mild porting. The camshaft would need to be selected and ground for use with a turbo and many companies want to know what intake and exhaust port flow the head has to better match it for your needs.

perfect. im still looking to be able to drive this on the street so i dont want too big a cam. Would it be beneficial to use the 194 head that i have and do the work to that to get higher comp?

IIRC, you will have close to 9:5.1 compression w/the 194 cyl head.
You could use it but will need to run premium gas, 91-93 octane, whatever is available. Definately need an intercooler also.
Also you will be limited to how much boost you can run safely (like 6-10 PSI tops, rough estimate) If you install a methanol injection system, you could run over 10 psi, but there are a lot of variables on just how much you can safely run.

If you run the 194 head, it will give you a little pepier engine, turbo will spool-up quicker

Turbo cams are normally really smooth idle, not much valve overlap.

W/the 194 cyl head, you would install 1.85" intake valves & 1.60" exhaust valves.

Do not worry if some guys here mention to you & say the 194 cyl head is junk & the airflow is terrible,don't use it etc,, because when you are force feeding the engine such as a turbocharger, having the best flowing head is not as of great of a concern because as I mentioned just a bit ago, your engine will be forced fed.

My Syclone has I believe one of the worst flowing cyl heads Chevy ever produced, as far as the SBC & V-6 style heads are concerned. 165in/119ex flow at .500 lift @ 28 inches, & that is with 1.94" intake valve.

With that being said, the HP & torque numbers can show that the the stock 4.3 stock Syclone engine really sucks a$$ as far as cylinder head flow & a pathetic /weak camshaft. camshaft is about 173 degrees duration @ .050.
When I dynoed it a few years ago running 21 psi (stock is 14 psi)
it made 386 HP & 550-560 ft lbs of torque @ the wheels.

You can see it makes a lot more torque than HP & running that much boost will really show off the torque numbers as compared to the HP number.

MBHD

now what exactly is a methanol cooler and what would make me be able to run more boost with it?

Hank, no one has ever said that the 194 cylinder head doesn't flow good. It can, its the chamber shrouding that kills it. It is designed for the 194 engine, thats why GM only put that head on 194's and none of the other 6's. Its designed for that engine alone that has a 3.563" bore size, putting it on the larger bore 230,250 and 292 engines that has a minimum of 3.875" bore, 3/8" larger bore than the 194 when these engines are .060 over, is what makes the 194 head a bad choice for anything other than a 194 engine. Thats why an open chamber BBC head makes more power than a closed chamber BBC head all day long, it breathes better in the chamber. Sissell even said that back in the 1970's in the "How to Hot Rod Big Block Chevy" book.

Nolando, the methanol injection cools the intake charge and helps reduce detonation allowing high boost levels to be obtained.

so good or bad to do the 194 head? Hank says yes

Well, actual dyno testing done here says NO, Hank's seat of the pants dyno says YES. What would you bank on....

My seat of the pants testing was against friends cars that went to the race track on a regular basis.

Before & after the 194 head install tests were done against friends cars.

The compression was raised also going from over 10:1 to 12:1.
But even with that compression gain & a so called worst flowing cylinder head, my car was definately faster than w/a large chamber head.

I would bank on proven cylinder heads, like from Mike Kirby & Larrys 194 head. Compression really wakes up the little six.

My car went from 14 second car to a mid 13 second car w/the 194 cyl head I used.


MBHD

Hank, you keep forgetting to mention that you also changed cams and converted to Weber sidedrafts when you swapped to the 194 head,I think the head added very little if any to your swap.

Camshaft was the same. Compression bump really really helped.
Why wouldnt it? 10:1 to 12:1 ?
If I had changed the camshaft I certainly would not have been shooting for 220-230 cranking PSI.Just a tad high to run on pump gas?
I was just hoping it would not ping & detonate, no money @ that time to purchase another camshaft.
I lucked out & the engine did not ping, I sorta attribute the not pinging from better fuel distribution from adding the DCOEs.

If the cylinder head was so bad,even DCOEs would not have made up the difference, right?

Like I said all a long, engine dynos does not tell everything how it is going to work in an actual car, can't bank it all on an engine dyno.

Back to the subject @ hand, the 194 head is perfectly fine for you to use,if you do not want to go crazy boosting it. Because of the compression increase.

When you have a bad flowing head, & when you force feed to engine w/a turbo or supercharge it, those deficiencies are not as apparent.
You can have a horrible valve job,IE, seats too wide, incorrect angles etc,but the port windows are big enough to flow well, a turbo forcing the air fuel mixture through it will not be so relevant, have the same senario on a naturally aspirated, you are going to see big losses in power.
Also if your port windows are too big, port velosity will drop & there goes your torque.


MBHD

I agree, going from 10-1 to 12-1 should make a difference by itself. But on a 230, going from the stock chamber head to the 194 head is not that much of a gain compression-wise, and given his limitation on how much he can increase compression because of the turbo, there just isn't much he can gain without being too much. Putting the 194 head on the 230 isn't going to gain as much compression, 1/2 a point at best, as it would a 250 or 292 which is 3/4 of a point(stock chamber for stock chamber). Also, im not saying the 194 head is bad, just the large chamber is better. If you would have had 12-1 compression with the open chamber head and done the Webers, you would have been that much faster....

Agree on some of the points.
I am just saying, since he has a 194 head lying around, go ahead & use it.

If it's just going to add 1/2 of a point, it should be closer to 9:1 , which is not bad & run a turbo.


MBHD

so if i run that 194 head should i still run the 1.85 intake 1.60 exhaust valves?

Yes, install the larger valves and install the lump ports if you have the budget for it. A camshaft swap would be good also.

What exactly are the lump ports? I am on a budget but what would be a ballpark on that head work with and without the ports? I did just start my new job today so i will have some income but i would want to budget how much i need for the work.

Here is some good info.
http://t6racing.org/id2.html

thanks Hank