Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance Project 2012 convention

At it again.
Have had a 65 Chevelle 4 door wagon for quite some time. It has sat in the garage for atleast 7 years. Has a 194/ PG. Engine runs OK. Body is decent with very old paint. Interior is very lacking.

Decided to take it to the convention with the boy. So the thrashing starts. Pulled the interior to recoat the floor. Used a POR-15 type product. Added sound deadener, insulation and carpet.

Installed the dyno 250 motor with a richmond 5 speed. Had to add a floor hump, clutch pedals and linkage. New shocks, got the brakes working.
Changed the motor on Sunday. Hope to have running this weekend to test drive. All new exhaust.

Hope to pull out on Sat morning and get the trip on.

Let's also put some guess's out on what it may get for fuel mileage.
250 zero decked, 9.5 comp flat tops .040 over. Clifford 270 cam .525 lift and 214 degrees at .050. lumped head 1.94/ 1.6 valves, roller rockers. progressive 2 bbl 2305 350 cfm on a Offy intake. Hooker headers , 2 1/2 collectors, necked to 2 1/4 pipes into a Y pipe. Single 2 1/2 exit to a Magnaflow 3 chamber muffler and 2 1/2 tailpipe.
Trans is a non overdrive 5 speed. Rear gears will be 2.56 and have 27" rear tires.
Hope to get electric cooling fans hooked up too.
Closest guess to mileage gets a beer at the convention!

18.8 is my guess as it is about the same as mine except i have a 3.36 gear. I can squeak out about 16.9 mpg at 65/70 mph. Sounds like a nice project. Have fun at the Conv.

17.7, See you when you get here! I'll still be painting.

Save some paint for mine. It needs it!
Got exhaust done tonight. Rear springs and shocks. Rear seat reinstalled.

Hmmmmm, 18 MPG.

Tlowe,,,, Just curious about the choice of using the Offy intake.

I thought you were anti Offy, Clifford was the best intake for all purposes?

MBHD

Hoping to see more than 20 mpg. My turbo 292 Elco will get 18.

Hank, The Offy Intake is being used for this reason. It is the only intake I have that is water heated. I have a few Cliffords but have no method to heat them.

Last night got the clutch pedals hung and connected. Put in a new turn signal assy And repaired a door that was not opening from the outside very well. Tonight, wiring.

hook up a vaccuum gauge, establish where the power stage tip-in is and try to keep out of it-gonna be tough with those gears up the hills for sure, maybe along the flats too-but thats about all you can do as well as keeping a steady foot as to not wiggle in too much accellerator pump. The little primary (if it is a little primary)should make it easy to monitor. Dont go crazy on leaning the main jets for max milage-dont wanna burn the exhaust valves on the long trip

little slip-sticking shows 31.38 mph per 1000 rpm so 70 would be 2231 rpm- should make Hank happy and perhaps new motor will enjoy it too.

I am going with the Preacher!!! The gear is a little tall to be going West...some pretty tall hills on your way. I would want 3.23 or maybe 3.08 and about 2500 rpms at 70 mph. My cam is 519 lift and 262 degs. about the same as yours and my sweet spot is 2850 rpm with 20 inchs of vacuum.. I still feel you will be lucky to get 18 mpg. I don't think there is a ounce of difference on what intake/carb you have on it as long as you are driving for gas milage only and not making a few top end pulls !! LOL ...just saying.

Car presently has a 3.36 rear gear. Will get it running this weekend and drive it a bit with those gears. Get a feel for where the motor likes the load. Have a motor minder to hookup this weekend too. That and a tach. Not hooking up the speedo yet. Use a GPS for speed.

Have no SP2P intake. Never seen one in person. Had thought about using my Brazilian divided intake. It needs a little machine work, not enough time.

The water heat will promote fuel atomization. That and the annular discharge boosters of this Holley should do very well.

you are looking to utilize only the exact amount of hp to propel vehical along at 70 (or whatever your desired cruise speed) mph. Whatever that btu energy requirement is, is what the carb needs to provide as efficiently as possible. Carbs are very efficient on their main metering systems, and quite possibly most have nearly the same efficency. Carter carbs pioneered the vaccuum advance in the 20's and it has proven to be an improvement of 20% in economy. I would set total advance to be just shy of bucking at constant speed, probably needing the vaccuum advance to have only limited travel (bent nail in slot behind canister, 1/8 inch dia.) to allow for a little carb loading without pinging, oh yeah use ethyl (premium grade for you youngsters).

Ak Miller, its said of, used to air up his tires to 50# (pre radial days), run vaseline as wheel bearing grease, use light weight rear end lubricant, and back off any drag from brake shoes etc. to an effort to lower all mechanical drag. Who says you cant coast down hills? You may even approach 40 mpg and have the oil companies buy your car from you in an effort to crush all such techonology (you know how they are, i.e. fish carbs etc type wives tales)

Good luck

Timing is a huge event for fuel mileage. Plan is to have it in where it is needed.

Wiring today.
Cruise control too!

Gee Tom,
You were not kidding when you said you were very busy.
That is quite the undertaking on short notice.

Have fun!

Paul

The best mileage I ever got w/my 250 was about 21 MPG.

That was w/a 5 speed manual & a 400 CFM Carter AFB. Offy non heated intake.

Is your Brazilian devided intake heated?

How about your other long runner intakes, have you tried those out @ all? The PAS manifold, must be horrible for low end power.

MBHD

The Brazilian intake is not heated. My PES RAM intake will not fit under the hood.

Got it running tonight! She is one buzzin half dozen! Louder than I expected with a full size 3 chamber single muffler. Tomorrow, put the carpet back in and the front seat. I need to drive it! That progressive carb sounds crisp. Had a sticky needle and seat. Not bad for a unknown carb.

Hank, guy's like the PES because it has more tq than a Clifford.

More torque,,, @ what RPM is that at, higher torque @ a higher RPM range than the Clifford?


MBHD

Hank are you going to be able to make it to the convention? It's not that far from you. It will be fun to examine these cars at the show on Saturday and actually talk to the owners face to face and hear of their adventures on the way to Carson City. I am looking forward to the chance to meet as many of the folks on this board as possible.

Tom, Will you be able to post on the way?

Look forward to meeting everyone at the convention. I'll be the guy in the Ford.

Yep. If I use this blackberry. First time to try it.

I would like to go, but I cannot make it.

Somebody take pics & post them up here.

MBHD

That's too bad but I know you have your hands full. I'm sure there will be lots of pictures. I'll take some of what I'm able to attend. We are working hard to get everything done. I still have 4 more trophies to finish and get my pickup painted and back together. There is no trophy for wet paint. Where does the time go? It would be fun to get a picture of all the bulletin board users that make it to CC.

Drove it down the road tonight. Running good. Pulls good too. Got a lot to do. The list is getting shorter.

Tom
Ran out of time. Will have to take the Vibe. See you in Denver.
Luke

tlowe, I'll give it a shot and say maybe 20 mpg in certain stretches.Have a safe trip and look forward to meeting you in Carson City.

Tom, I sounds like you are about to set out on a great adventure. When my oldest son and I set out for Texas in his '54 Stude the first time He had driven it less than 200 miles on a total frame off build. We drove some and wrenched some all the way. I spent an extra week in Lubbock working on the car while he started school. We made those back and forth trips every year till he graduated. I wouldn't trade those trips for anything. Good luck and keep us posted. Painting the '53 tomorrow. I hope it gets done.

Drove it today. About 125 miles. some 60 mph mosy @ 65-70 rpms upto about 3300 @ 70. Not pleasant. Refilled and added 5.6 gallons.
It still has the 3.36 gears and 27" tires with no overdrive. Plenty of spunk too!
Tonight, regear to 2.56 gears, should get the RPMs down to a managable # and the mileage up.

This thing is loud. Need a resonator to jam into the tail pipe.

You should have seen all the leaves blowing out of the floor vents when it first got upto speed.

hope to depart on Sunday. Will miss the supper at Will's. Darn, my work had me toooo busy to get this thing done.
Today, the boy and I put in the carpet, front seat, and newly installed 3 point seat belts.
The timing is a bit too much at highway speed, will dial that back down. It bucks abit.

Beater- great trophys from a sorce besides a trophy shop. I offered to do that for the midwest convention and got laughed at!!! 1 ol redneck!!!!!

Darrell,
I would take anything you make.



Weighed the car. 3900 with me and the boy and a full tank.

Lets see some pics of it!

Tom best of luck on this trip- wish I could make it. Have a great time!!!!

Well I seen a 250 would rather run free and turn a little more rather than getting too far down in the RPM range. they don't like to have to work all the time. One I messed with was an intergal head stock motor and got 22-23 mpg with 4;11 s and went to 17-18 with3;42 s. That one belomg to my friend thats always at Cedar Rapids with me. I think you've met him Tom.

Well I seen a 250 would rather run free and turn a little more rather than getting too far down in the RPM range. they don't like to have to work all the time. One I messed with was an intergal head stock motor and got 22-23 mpg with 4;11 s and went to 17-18 with3;42 s. That one belomg to my friend thats always at Cedar Rapids with me. I think you've met him Tom.

My Camaro had 3.08 when I first got it.

I drove it that way for years. Daily driver.

Got a great deal on a 12 bolt 4.10 rear end, installed it, gas mileage dropped dramatically, especially on the freeway.
Still my daily driver.
It was OK in the city, but I hated it on the freeway w/out a doubt!
A 200R4 would have helped a lot w/those 4.10's IMO.


MBHD

Gears are in. Pics on Sunday. Have no 2.73. Calculated 2.56 to be the correct rpm @ 70-75 mph.

Something dont jive here at post #69947 'cause 3.36 gears and 27" tires slip-stick out to 23.91 mph per 1000 rpm therefore 3300 rpm should equal 79 mph (3000 rpm would be 72 mph) Probably got the wrong plastic speedo gear in the richmond or else the gps is talking to Sputnik by mistake.

Of course, a point could be made that this the way the factory, in all their infinite wisdom, felt the wagon should be geared(with the 194).

The Bonneville gears will put you at 70 with only 2230 RPM (31.38mph/1000 rpm), but you do have nearly a half dozen gears to play with if the 2230 rpm level lulls you into a meeting with the sandman.

A good pioneer stereo (and Johnny B. Goode) could handle the 3.36's road racket and make the trip faster.

Duh!

Here are the pics. Be gentle. This car has not been on the road since the early 2000's.
Tires must be shorter. Thought they were 27. Tach is reading about 25-2600 at 75.











The gears work great. Also added the front chin spoiler. Both changes made the car quieter. Pulls off the line fine. It does help to have a 3.28 first gear.

Awww heck Hank, but since you brought it up....

YUP! Still do! ('cept Dad's tires were 28" inches remember?) By the way,who's using 24" tires that you are referring to ?)


...and some people wax poetic over 3.08's ability to get great gas mileage while at the same time turning the car into a slug.

3.08's are swell if mileage is your ONLY/MAIN concern, but if you want a little get up-n-go to go with your mileage, then 3.55's are hard to beat!

Hank do you ever use 1st or 2nd gear? If so why? Think of the wonderful gas saving final gear ratio you'd get if you would only use high gear/overdrive!!

*Since some things don't come across very well in written form, i'll let everyone off the hook: the previous statement is dripping in sarcasm!*

fasteddie