Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected Simple boost build.

I have a 64 Belair that I'm once again looking to improve on. Last summer I swapped the old 230 with a 250, stock everything. I'm looking online and seeing a few builds where a small turbo is used to make 5-6psi on a draw through system. That's what I'm looking for here in this build.

Background on the car: th350 swapped with a B&M Shift Kit, stock rearend with shortened driveshaft. Stock brakes. I will be replacing front end bushings/suspension parts this spring. The frame is just as solid as a 50 year old Chevy from MN can get.

The engine has stock parts as far as internals and externals. YouTube shows a few videos with Clifford intakes and Offy exhausts, but there are alot a few videos of hodge podge builds utilizing stock externals/externals.

Now my question: for practicality sake, how efficient is a bone stock 250 inline making 5psi? Is it necessary for internal/external upgrades? What budget am I looking at? Not looking to take it to the track, just a weekender/cruiser. Car sits 7 months out of the year. It's kinda got the rat-rod theme.

Thanks in advance.

Look @ the last 2 pgs of this topic.

https://www.inliners.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=72483#Post72483

1978-82ish Buick regal turbo set-up
1981 turbo Trans Am turbo set-up will work.

Try & get a complete set-up w/a carb.

http://imageshack.us/f/233/p1090134s.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/f/831/p1090133os.jpg/

I convinced a guy here to turbo his stock engine. He even boosted up to 15 psi. Long story....

Running low boost like 4-5 psi will be no problem on a stock engine. Just don't let it detonate.

MBHD

I'm debating going that route or a T3 route. There is a T3 locally for sale on CL, cold side is a .60Ar Hot side is .48 (from mid 80's Ford). Also unsure if I want to upgrade to a milder cam.

From what I've gathered, the project should cost less than $600 which is feasible for my budget.

The T3 you have locally w/a .48 sounds like it is for a 4 cyl engine, way too small turbine wheel I am thinking.

The simplest & cheapest would be to find what I mentioned previously, for a draw through set-up.

A blow through, will require, more work, more parts, & more money.

MBHD

I am leaning more towards blow through. I have no problem fabricating stuff. One question I have that is rather unclear is the carb. Boucher modified a Holley 500 but he instructions seem vague. How difficult is it?

I think Boucher's carb is a 350 Holley.

If you want someone who knows about blowing through 2 bbl Holleys, talk w/ turbo6 here on the BB.

Snowman (here, on the BB) modded his 500 2bbl, not sure if he got it all dialed in though.

MBHD

Yeah, read throught most of Snowman's thread and tried to separate what didn't work from what did. I'll be PM'ing him to see what he has to offer.

The more I read into this the more confident I can get it all dialed in pretty quickly. My only setback is a welder, but that's the least of my concerns.

Found a turbo kit for a Regal on eBay, same one that JStew is buying. Also watching some auctions for a Holley 500 on eBay. Should be a fun spring.

The single most important item is some form of boost referenced timing retard. Easiest way is to use a MSD BTM ignition.

rattle a stock engine with cast pistons & the fix will cost a lot more thanthe BTM box.

I saw in Snowman's thread what can happen from that, lol.

I am assembling my parts list. Please add anything I am missing or something you suggest.

t3/t4 turbo (size to be established later)
wastegate (with modified actuator to adjust boost level)
Holley 2bbl 500cfm (with rebuild kit or remanufactured)
1bbl to 2bbl adapter plate
AEM Wideband
Carb Hat
HEI
BOV
Some sort of modified Fuel Pump or aftermarket electrical pump/regulator assembly
Intercooler (optional, but suggested)
Timing retard system (will need clarification on that)

The system will use completely stock internals and externals (with the exception of the carb) and will never see more than 6 psi. In the future (when I am done with college, working towards my BA) I will be building my old 230 with the plan of transferring this setup over and running 15-20 psi with accommodating upgrades.

I should point out now that I am fairly new to Forced induction on a Carburator. I have assisted with a few FI'd EFI setups in the past year, however getting the AFR's right without a computer to help tune is what I forsee being the biggest issue for me. I've rebuilt my the 1bbl on my old 230i a few years ago so I know how to do that, it's just getting it tuned right for the FI that I am worried about.

Anyone know how to get ahold of turbo6? He does not accept PM's on the forums here.

Check in at Turbo6 profile, and find his websiteadress, you can contact him there!

He doesnt have one listed.

I would propose the idea of using a 600 holley 4 bbl double pumper vs the 500 2 bbl.
Reasons:
1. smaller primary blades than the 500 (500's are as big as a 750 4 bbl)better for drivability.
2. More tunability

I used the 500 2bbl on the dyno 250 only because I did not own a small double pumper carb.

Sorry I haven't been on lately, I recieved my new Kirby head and am working on my 37 chevy with a new intake with carbs, and new exhaust etc.

Tom is correct a small holley 4bbl would work better more driveable, with such low boost on a blow through all you need is to get the mixture correct and use plastic floats that will not crush, no other mods needed, but you need to boost reference the fuel pump to keep the fuel pressure at 6 lbs plus boost pressure. You can run stock timming no blowoff valves etc.

On a draw through you would need to reference the power valve but not on a blow through. Run a pipe from the compressor to the carb and floor it!

Good Luck

Harry

Thanks for the replies gang.

I have a slew of parts in my eBay watched list. Wondering if there is an adapter plate for the 4bbl to stock intake manifold. Clifford has one listed on their page but I'm not sure if it's for their manifold or a stock one.

http://www.cliffordperformance.net/Merch...egory_Code=C250

I also wish I could find a pair of headers that exit near each other to fab a collector and then swing it back to the turbo. I see in Snowman's thread he has the 292 exhaust manifold, but wouldnt headers be more efficient/sound better?

Anyway, I should start buying some things this week so I will keep in touch!

Standard headers will have a short life, the heat will tear them up.
Best to get a 4 bbl type intake, whichever suits your budget better. Clifford or Offenhauser.

New 292 3 bolt manifolds can be had on ebay. They are made for the agricultural applications. But still the same as the big trucks used.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-John-Deere-E...=item337a3940e2
compare it to this one at a higher price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250-4-1-292-GM-C...f437175&vxp=mtr

If I had it to do over again, I would pony up and get a 292 manifold and an Offy. The 292 outlet is not only larger (2.5") but it also exits in a more desirable location / angle for the up-pipe mounting.

Just my two pennies.

Boucher'

The 292 exhaust is a direct fit to the 250 head? My trial build will be using a stock intake and exhaust manifold only because of budget limitations, but the future holds plans for an aftermarket set of manifolds, and I like the price on the John Deere 292 exhaust manifold if i can use it on my 250....

Yes, it is a direct fit on a 250 head.

Cast iron manifolds usually can take the heat of a turbo.

Unless you are really trying to get every last bit of HP out of a turbocharged engine, the cast iron manifold will work great.

The SPA manifold will bolt a turbo on directly.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230-250-292-Chev...a1ad5a5&vxp=mtr

Depending on what chassis you are putting it in, the SPA manifold is an excellent choice I.M.O.

MBHD

I'm watching that SPA manifold to see how much it goes for. I'm curious to see if it will go for cheaper than a 292 manifold + preturbo stainless exhaust piping in a few bends. Plus saving myself the headache of welding and shaping the preturbo.

Don't suppose anyone has a.side by side comparison of the 292 and 250 exhaust manifolds? My crossmember is huge and with the 250 exit/angle it looks damn near impossible to get a good routing to the turbo. Or perhaps if anyone has sone engine nay shots for a mid 60's full size car it would be good to reference off that.

Update:

Clifford 6=8 4bbl intake is on the way.



$250 + shipping and it includes two chrome side covers, which I dont really need but was something I wanted to have.

Also bidding on a 4bbl Holley 600cfm 80457-2 with electric choke. Never had an electric choke carb before, anything I should know?

After the Holidays I'll really start buying stuff. I'm just jumping on parts now that are good deals. What is the average retail on that SPA manifold?

I believe you will need a double pumper, not a vac secondary carb. With boost the secondaries will not open. They use vacuum to open.

Cheapest place get a SPA turbo manifold.
http://www.designengineering.com/categor...rbo-manifold-t4

They also offer a T3 version.

I always wanted to use these http://stoveboltengineco.com/catalog/store/#!/~/product/category=412417&id=1395980 & hook up a turbo.

I had asked Tom if he knows anyone who has done it, @ the time he said no & the manifolds should be nice & durable for turbocharging.
Just a thought.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spa-Turbo-Manifo...0cf9cd4&vxp=mtr
$474 or make offer & free shipping.

MBHD

Thanks for the response on the Carb, Tom. I appreciated your insight as I wasn't sure which 600cfm to use. There are many more carbs out there than I thought!

I'm leaning away from the SPA manifold. Seeing a few more build pictures of the preturbo piping, I am getting comfortable with the idea of welding it myself. Plus, I cant really fathom $500 for a piece of cast iron, no matter how nice and easy it makes the job. Remember, this is a low budget build

Hank, my main concern with those cast headers is running them together for preturbo piping. Seems like it'd be a PITA to weld the collector and bring it up to the turbo. I have very limited space between the side of the block, the upper control arm, and where I'd like the turbo to mount. This is in a 64 Chevy Belair, so space is limited, or so it seems.

Once I get the turbo I'll mock something up and look at my options.

Thanks gang.

Here is the car, just so we get an idea of what it's going into Plus I just realized this thread doesnt have many pics! No one likes a thread without images!

Theres several mods you can do to a Holley DP to make them more blow through friendly. Check out Hanger 18 Modifications.

Alright, got my eyes on a Holley 600DP 4776-3 with a Mech Choke. Has front jet of 66 and rear of 73, and from a 351w, obviously in need of a rebuild. Would this suffice?

It's one of the few on CL that has the choke plate in tact. Wondering why I see so many without the choke plate.

From your pics, it looks like a 292 exhaust manifold has plenty of room to fit an up-pipe to a turbo.
Snowman put a 292 manifold on a (IIRC) 68 Buick Special "A" body & his has less space.

People think the choke plate limits airflow ,so they remove it & in warm weather country, most do not need a choke if you let the engine warm up for a bit before moving.

Problem sometimes w/used carbs, the throttle shaft has a lot of play & when blowing through one w/shaft plays, it can make a mess with fuel comming out of the shafts.

I would run the turbo closer to the radiator support or at least even with the front of your engine.

MBHD

Hank,
Thanks for the reply. The only issue with missing choke plate would be rough cold starts, correct? I'd have to let the engine warm up (which I usually do anyway) before putting it into gear? If so, then that really opens up the options on ebay. Either way, replacement choke plates could be had online, I'm assuming.

Alex,

you got it.

I am sure if you need a choke plate they could be had.

A lot of people will cut off the complete choke assy, never being able to install a choke ever again.
Example: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http...Q9QEwAw&dur=265

Goodluck on your search for your parts.

MBHD

Picked up a set of new Clifford long tubes off Jalopy for $100. Even though I can't use them I couldn't miss the deal. Beats paying $300 for them, plus I have that 230 on a stand awaiting a future build.

You got one at bat and one in the hole! Love it

It was a good day today



Long tube headers, should fit fine if I decide a turbo is too much work.







Oil feed line and BOV.



Downpipe and flange with gasket.



Clifford 6-8 aluminum manifold with chrome side covers. Got this for a hell of a deal.



All in all, I am happy with this load. The turbo seemed like a good choice since it wont be running much boost (5-8psi) and I will be using stock internals. The unit itself seems like a good piece, so I am satisfied per cost.

Not delivered yet but on the way.



600cfm Holley Double Pumper list 84010-2

Still at it.

Got the wastegate set to open at 7 psi. Picked the location and orientation of the turbo for the engine bay. Purchased the turbo filter. It's a 3in spectre from AutoZone. Have the wastegate dump pipe tacked. Just waiting for some more money to purchase materials for the pre turbo piping. Figured out tonight what ill need for materials.

Thinking of going ahead and buying the 292 manifold. Reasoning being is that I want the up pie to fit straight (not an angle like most I've seen) and my math tells me a 3.25 pipe of pipe pressedat an oval would be needed. Well, I'd rather not be that guy to go from a 3.25 to 2.25. That'd require 3 or 4 adapters and a tacky look. So 2 adapters seems easier and would look better. Unless someone can suggest a way to get the up pipe to the turbo with a straight plane mount. Hopefully that makes sense.

Also polished the carb bowls as I wait for my rebuild kit. Had a leaky float otherwise I would have soaked it in carb cleaner and used it without a rebuild. Debating on getting a spare 2 bbl 500 cfm in case I can't tune the 4bbl well enough.

Lastly, thinking about dropping the Belair 3 inches. Anyone have experience with this?

Alex,

never heard about the specs on your turbo you bought.
Got a link to it or specs on the compressor wheel inducer & exducer measurements, same for turbo wheel ind/exd?

Turbine housing A/R ?
Turbine housing exit hole size for downpipe? DP size?

Should be fun!

MBHD

Forgot to post the specs. Got busy with finals.

.57 trim
3" inlet
2" outlet
50 a/r compressor
.62 turbine

It's the "set" found on eBay which compares to the turbo on the Montes. It came with the turbo, wastegate, downpipe, short oil feed line, and blow off valve. Everything appears to be pretty good quality. I also purchased the internal wastegate conversion, which i have set via bench test to 7psi. I'll set it closer to 4 psi once its installed.

This one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/T3-T4-Hybrid-Tur...f0919d0&vxp=mtr

MBHD