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#76344 - 08/13/13 04:24 AM 67 Camaro - Blown 250
TurboCamaro Offline
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I've been reading a lot in these forums and have decided after many sleepless nights that I want a Turbo on my 250. It seems like the perfect mesh of old school and high tech and that's exactly what I want. I started an engine thread last year and was truly introduced to the idea of an inline 6 Turbo by Snowman. I've since read his entire (18 page) thead twice, and picked up a 2nd edition copy of The Inline 6 Power Manual (great read) and feel up to the task.

I want to build something like Snowman, nothing crazy but I don't have the same time constraints he did, so I won't need to rush anything. My build priorities are:

maintaining at least 15#'s of boost;
getting the best back for buck parts; and
keeping mileage and operating costs low.

I have a generic list of parts that I need/want to purchase:

Turbo/BOV/Wastegate/Hat/Piping etc;
292 exhaust manifold;
Intake manifold;
Air and boost gauges;
Turbo Cam;
Forged Pistons;
Meth/Aid Injection;
Fuel Pump
Carburetor; and
HEI.

I understand there will be other misc parts and labor but at least I have a parts list to start keeping my eye out for.

I think it's important to mention that I'm not a mechanic, and have very minimal hands on experience with engines. I'm book smart and can use Google like I built it, but I don't know a lot of what would seem like common knowledge to a lot of car/engine enthusiasts. I came here to learn and I like to read so please don't feel the need to dumb anything down too much as I'm happy to research every word to figure it out.

Just a refresh, it's all going in my 67 Camaro backed by a turbo 350 tran. I won't be touching the tran until it blows up on me. I wish I could tell you what the rear end is... stock?

Engine compartment picture - Old but she hasn't really changed


I plan to document everything and eventually index the build here, so I will start below and edit this some day...
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#76345 - 08/13/13 04:26 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TurboCamaro Offline
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So... I'd like to get some opinions on parts so I can assemble a specific list of parts to find:

- Junkyard HEI distributor or Pertronix Ignitor (or the like)?

- Carbeurator? 2bbl Holly 500cfm? something cheaper/better for same value?

- Clifford or Offy intake for Turbo application?

- Turbo sizing for my build intentions? I'll likely roll the ebay dice but we'll see what the locals have to offer.

- Meth injection system... any recommendations?

Thank you in advance.

Ian
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#76369 - 08/14/13 01:22 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
Twisted6 I.I #3220 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Ian67
I've been reading a lot in these forums and have decided after many sleepless nights that I want a Turbo on my 250. It seems like the perfect mesh of old school and high tech and that's exactly what I want. I started an engine thread last year and was truly introduced to the idea of an inline 6 Turbo by Snowman. I've since read his entire (18 page) thead twice, and picked up a 2nd edition copy of The Inline 6 Power Manual (great read) and feel up to the task.

I want to build something like Snowman, nothing crazy but I don't have the same time constraints he did, so I won't need to rush anything. My build priorities are:

maintaining at least 15#'s of boost;
getting the best back for buck parts; and
keeping mileage and operating costs low.

I have a generic list of parts that I need/want to purchase:

Turbo/BOV/Wastegate/Hat/Piping etc;
292 exhaust manifold;
Intake manifold;
Air and boost gauges;
Turbo Cam;
Forged Pistons;
Meth/Aid Injection;
Fuel Pump
Carburetor; and
HEI.

I understand there will be other misc parts and labor but at least I have a parts list to start keeping my eye out for.

I think it's important to mention that I'm not a mechanic, and have very minimal hands on experience with engines. I'm book smart and can use Google like I built it, but I don't know a lot of what would seem like common knowledge to a lot of car/engine enthusiasts. I came here to learn and I like to read so please don't feel the need to dumb anything down too much as I'm happy to research every word to figure it out.

Just a refresh, it's all going in my 67 Camaro backed by a turbo 350 tran. I won't be touching the tran until it blows up on me. I wish I could tell you what the rear end is... stock?

Engine compartment picture - Old but she hasn't really changed


I plan to document everything and eventually index the build here, so I will start below and edit this some day...




The stock rear is most likely a 1 leger with a 3:08 gear set. Which should be okay for your turbo build. because you just don't need a lot of gearing.
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#76370 - 08/14/13 04:30 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: Twisted6 I.I #3220]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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I use ALKY control. http://mysite.verizon.net/res11pgkr/vehicles/customkit.html

Best knock control IMO. http://jandssafeguard.com/ purchased through : http://www.american-pi.com/corvair/corvhome.html

Intakes, I would choose the OFFY over the Clifford.

The same turbo I picked for snowman would be a low cost choice.

If you are not too handy with fabricating etc, one of these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-Pontiac-Tur...=p2047675.l2557
would be your best bet along w/a J&S safeguard http://jandssafeguard.com/

MBHD
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#76372 - 08/14/13 05:04 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
TurboCamaro Offline
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@TWISTED6 - That's good to know as I've wondered if there would be a significant advantage to replacing stock gears. I'm sure at some point I'll crawl under there and take a peek to confirm the ratio.

@MBHD - I've read extensively about your alky system and it seems perfect with the exception of its price. There is a used universal one (Alky Control brand) with the reserve not met on ebay now, so I may keep my eye out for a deal on it. I'd love to hear your opinion on the use of an alky system as more of a "intercooler" (with some detonation prevention) with the use of 91-93 gas, but windshield wiper fluid or straight distilled water as the injected liquid.

As far as the knock sensor, is it something that most turbo users install or is it an extra preventative measure? I don't want to detonate, but I probably can't afford to buy every preventative "bell and wistle" if it can be avoided with common sense installation and tuning practices.

I figured that the Offy intake was the way to go. It's cheaper and more available and I know without a doubt that it clears the 292 exhaust manifold. Consider the Offenhauser 5416 intake on my list.

@EVERYONE - I've read that various members of this board (ie. TWISTED6 & TLOWE) have access to lots of new and/or used/custom turbo related internal parts. I'm very interested in keeping the internal parts in the mid quality range. I don't want to mess around with dollar store cams and semi-half-baked-forged pistons. If you have access to a decent part at a fair price please post it up as I'd like to support this community by keeping some of the purchases "in house".

Ian


Edited by Ian67 (08/14/13 05:18 PM)
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#76378 - 08/14/13 08:57 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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The only cheaper priced unit that works pretty good is the Devils own Alky system, but there cannot take 100% methanol as the Alky control system can.
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/19-universal

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Devils-Own-Unive...fbcd63f&vxp=mtr

While data logging running 25 psi of boost pressure I have recorded manifold air temps of 59 degrees F when injecting 100% methanol while using pump 91 octane.

I believe all newer cars have knock sensors installed from the factory.

Adding a knock sensor to a turbo charged engine in my opinion is highly recommended because you cannot always hear detonation where as a knock sensor will pick up knock & retard your timing accordingly.

Snowman never installed any knock senor/timing retarding devise & I am most positive he could never hardly ever hear his engine detonating as he ran an open pipe exhaust system with no muffler.(TOO LOUD to hear detonation)

If you ever get a chance to data log an engine that has a knock sensor, knock retard light/s, you can & will see an engine will knock/detonate & you cannot even hear the detonation, a J&S safe guard system is highly recommended & my has saved my Syclone engine many times.

Certain "winter" windshild washer fluid is the better one to use as it should have methanol in it.
Straight distilled water is OK but does not & will not make as much power as injecting 100% methnol, plus adding too much water does not burn & will put out the spark more so than adding alcohol.

It is safer to run a 50/50 blend or 60/40 methanol/water.
Plus it is cheaper to use a water /methanol mixture,, if that is a concern.

MBHD
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#76387 - 08/15/13 11:59 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
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@MBHD - You've sold me on the Devils Own Stage 2 Water-Methanol Injection Kit. $355 new on ebay is reasonable and a worthy addition to my shopping list. The J&S Safeguard system is awesome and I'd love to have it but the cost ($700+) outweighs my budget, for now. I will continue researching it, and alternatives as I progress.

@EVERYONE - Is this 292 Intake on Ebay for $123.77 the I want? It looks right to me but its cheaper than the rest and doesn't say that it's 2.5". Perhaps someone can confirm by sight. The same seller has a separate auction for $234 but it includes the gaskets (extra $110), but Summit sells the gasket set for $11, so I don't know what's up with that.

Ian


Edited by Ian67 (08/15/13 12:05 PM)
Edit Reason: Fixed link

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#76389 - 08/15/13 02:12 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
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In addition to the above, what do we think about this KOSpeed T04 Turbo on Ebay for $230? I've copied it's stats below for quick reference:

 Quote:
Description:
100% brand new
Capable of boosting horse power up to 400+ BHP
High quality material, cast housing with durable steel
Wet float bearings
4 bolt T4 exhaust flange
3.75" V-Band outlet flange
Intake inlet & outlet: 4" & 2.5"

Compressor:
Trim: 60
A/R: .70
Inducer: 60.30
Exducer: 78.0

Turbine:
Trim: 64
A/R: .50
Inducer: 67.0
Exducer: 58.80

I'm really more interested in whether this Turbo is suitable based on it's sizes as I already understand the risk of buying a no name part on Ebay. Once I have an understanding of the size, I'll research reviews for brands and sellers.

Ian
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#76393 - 08/15/13 05:06 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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That turbo is too small on the turbine side.
.50 A/R is way too small, engine won't breath.

Did you find what Snowman used for a turbo?

This is something like snowmans turbo http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-GT35-T...f2ed441&vxp=mtr

The turbine wheel is a little small but it should work OK for you also.

MBHD
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#76394 - 08/15/13 05:23 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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This one has better specs. Plus it has a V-band exhaust outlet,= much better seal, no gaskets needed.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CXRacing-Univers...552b9ab&vxp=mtr

Air Inlet 4"
Compressed Air Outlet 2.5"
Bearing Journal Bearing
Turbine Housing Flange Standard T4
Exhaust Outlet 3 Vband
HP 300~500 WHP
Cooling Oil and Water Cooled
Working Pressure 6-25 PSI
Compressor .70 A/R
Turbine .68 A/R
Compressor Wheel 61.3 /82 mm
Turbine Wheel 62 /67.8 mm



MBHD
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#76395 - 08/15/13 05:52 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
TurboCamaro Offline
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@MBHD - Yikes, I didn't notice the low turbine a/r. I also forgot that snowman used a gt35 turbo with t04 housing. That explains why iI had a hard time finding the specs I wanted.

I like the 2nd one you posted as well, price is reasonable and the seller rating is well over 500 (unlike the first one). Now that I have a better example of what I need, I can spend some time exploring other options. Thanks for looking for those links.

MBHD, you wouldn't know if that 292 manifold (3 posts up) is the correct 2.5" one would you? The outlet is centered over the 4-5th cylinders and it has 3 holes. Any thoughts?

Also, you have any ideas for the ideal carburetor for this 12-18psi 350-400ish HP build? Snowman used the Holly 500 but I recall a lot of fuss around it, and wonder if there is a better choice.

Thanks again,

Ian
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#76396 - 08/15/13 06:43 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
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I think your going to be a lot higher HP than your 350-400 HP goal, just make sure you prep the engine for that kind of power output. Once you step up to this level, you really have no choice but to pony up and get the necessary higher end components required or you'll end up like Snowman and spend your money twice or three times redoing it.
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#76397 - 08/15/13 07:22 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: CNC-Dude #5585]
panic Offline
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Your T350 is going to misbehave with that torque on the 1-2 shift. You need a better valve body or kit at minimum.

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#76398 - 08/15/13 08:09 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: panic]
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You're right panic, having that much of an increase in HP and torque will show you real quick where the weak link is everywhere else.
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#76399 - 08/15/13 08:29 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: panic]
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I will chime in with my experience.

A holley 2300 500cfm will do just fine. Just don't drill your PVCR 's too big from the start.
MBHD recommended you a great turbo.
You will have to get a AEM wideband to tune it properly.
You must be able to cut and weld exhaust tubing or pay out the nose for custom work.
Run the Offy intake.
Keep in mind, 15 psi is a whole lot for these engines. I run around 4-5 psi and have been up to 10.
Forged pistons are $$$, if you can properly manage detonation, cast will do just fine.
The stock cam will work well with a turbo. I did a custom turbo cam, but think it was overkill.
Keep in mind about your fuel system and how to boost reference it. I am running a stock mechanical fuel pump that is boost referenced. Any more boost in my setup, I would need to change to a electronic fuel pump/ regulator setup.

Good luck, it's an awesome ride!! There is nothing like the sound of a blown inline 6.

Boucher'

PM me if you would like a build sheet to reference.

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#76402 - 08/15/13 09:26 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: Boucher]
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A lot higher than 350-400hp? I wanted to keep it to 400hp at the most. Don't get me wrong, the power would be great but I don't want the fuel economy to go right in the toilet as i'll probably use it as a daily driver (short distances) during the week and then boost everywhere on the weekend. So I want to be able to drive it with decent mileage and then stomp it for boost when need be.

I have nothing against the Holly 500, and I should be able to find one easily enough.

I might decide to drop a few items, like the pistons and cam as they will cost a pretty penny (with associated machine shop labor and whatnot) so that I can get this all sooner, and get other items to compliment the build (J&S Safeguard maybe). I want a strong build but I don't want to get it done and only use 5psi to keep it in my target hp range when it's capable of 25psi. I can always do the internal upgrades later.

I have no method of cutting or welding exhaust tubing, but I have a family member that can, so I'll do a mock build up and then take it for welding.

I decided against the pertronix ignitor idea, don't like the idea of having to carry a spare one. I've also sent a message to that ebay seller about the 292 manifold, it's a decent price if it's the 2.5" one.

I'm gonna start looking at fuel pumps, but if anyone has a recommendation... ;\)

Ian
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#76403 - 08/15/13 09:41 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
CNC-Dude #5585 Offline
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If you drop back to 6-8 psi that should put you back in the HP range your looking for.
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#76404 - 08/15/13 09:56 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: CNC-Dude #5585]
TurboCamaro Offline
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Is that 6-8psi with stock pistons, cam and other internal parts?

Ian

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#76405 - 08/15/13 11:30 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
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In a perfect world when you have exact engine management and correct fuel distribution and no hiccups along the way, then some stock components can live at that level, but given the perfect world scenario rarely occurs, then extra insurance with quality parts is sometimes the only thing that helps protect your investment. If you happen to achieve the upper end of your goal and reach 400 HP, you have increased your engines stock HP output by over 2-1/2 times what it was from the factory, I just don't think many of the stock components have that much of a safety factor engineered into them to last for long.
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#76406 - 08/15/13 11:59 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: CNC-Dude #5585]
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Well from what I read, the stock cast pistons can handle it, if ran with "respect" and detonation kept in check. I want to take my HP goal slow and steady and install the alky system to help with that. The cam is probably a bit on the mediocre side for turbo performance but isn't at risk of failing. Which parts would be the best to upgrade to prevent a failure that could ruin my investment?

Ian
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#76407 - 08/16/13 12:43 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
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The attention is in the details. If you send two exact engines to the machine shop, one for a stock rebuild and the other for a turbo build such as yours, the paths they each take through the machine shop will quickly become much different from one another. There are many fine details and machine work that are necessary for the turbo engine that are not usually required for the stock engine or even a mild performance build-up, its not just in the parts alone. Getting your cylinders nice and round with a quality bore and hone job will also need a torque plate, but you won't need to do that to a stock engine rebuild.

O-ringing the block is also a possible upgrade you might need to perform. At the least, quality ARP rod bolts and main studs are one of those upgrades that are going to help make your engine last at this elevated power level, but also require the rods to be reconditioned and the block align honed. Adding those components is going to require additional machine work as mentioned to use them, adding more expense, but also an extra measure of strength and safety. Balancing the rotating assembly is going to be a another area you will need to explore and perform. As you can see, the machine shop bill alone starts to climb higher and higher almost at a proportion to the amount of HP you want. But when you start pushing the power levels twice the original and beyond, theres just more to it than bolting parts together.
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#76412 - 08/16/13 12:53 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: CNC-Dude #5585]
TurboCamaro Offline
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When deciding on which power plant to go with, I had it down to a 327 V8 or this Turbo 250 build. Either way I had planned to do some kind of a rebuild, and expected a moderate amount of machine shop and internal part costs. The way I see it, I would have had to have the block machine work done anyway, so adding more to alot for the turbo performance is not only expected, but welcomed as I'm not interested in cutting corners. I do appreciate the warning on the extra costs though. The "Power Manual" and a few engine rebuild videos have helped understand what machining will be required. Plus, I want to have it that, once all done, I have the option of someday changing the tuning from 6psi to 12psi, without having to worry about the internals and the corners I cut. That being said, 400hp is probably the highest I'll ever take it.

I really need the help, more than anything now, to assemble the parts shopping list. Once I get that done, and it seems like I have almost everything, I will change gears and beg for tips on the build process. I foresee this being a lengthy and cautious project.

On a different note, the seller of that 292 manifold hasn't replied yet \:\/

With the alky kit, running a water/meth mix, do you guys think an intercooler is warranted? I know MBHD had a 30" x 18" with 3" piping, so I've been looking for similar sizes on Ebay already.

Thanks,

Ian
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#76413 - 08/16/13 01:47 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
CNC-Dude #5585 Offline
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To make the HP you are seeking with a 250 is going to require it to rev considerably higher in the RPM range to produce its power compared to a 292 or longer stroke engine, even with a turbo. This is going to keep its operating RPM range in an area I wouldn't be comfortable with day in and day out with cast pistons. Probably 90% of any problems you will have with a street turbo engine is going to be related to piston/ring failure, either because of detonation, improper piston design even if using forged(top ring too high, crown thickness too thin, wrong material, etc...)and/or fuel management related issues causing piston failure(improper fuel delivery system, insufficient volume, etc...).
So to start with, I would highly recommend a quality forged piston. And you'll likely need to get them custom to get the correct material, ring placement and crown thickness needed. Followed up by a premium ring package. The rest is just basic simple ABC's, like ARP rod bolts, main studs, head bolts or studs. Premium rod and main bearings are a necessity as well, but your machine shop can likely source those parts for you when the time comes, followed up by the required machine work to complete the build.
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#76416 - 08/16/13 03:19 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: CNC-Dude #5585]
TurboCamaro Offline
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Yeah I feel that the cast pistons are a weak spot as well. I'm sure I could run with the stock ones, for a while, and with low boost they could be OK. However my goal is 350-400hp now, I can only imagine my desire to turn it up a notch once I get a feel for the power. I think I'll keep the pistons and cam on the list. Any suggestions or places where I might inquire about best bang for your buck forged pistons?

Ian
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#76417 - 08/16/13 03:25 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Ian67
With the alky kit, running a water/meth mix, do you guys think an intercooler is warranted? I know MBHD had a 30" x 18" with 3" piping, so I've been looking for similar sizes on Ebay already.

Thanks,

Ian


Ian,
I would always recommend to use an intercooler. They are cheap$$ on eBay & no reason not to use one. The piping kits are cheap$$ also, just do your research on better quality ones, thick tubing ,rolled beads on the ends, multilayer silicone hoses 3-4 layers.
Don't let people talk you out of getting a intercooler because you are only running 6+ psi of boost pressure. Even @ 6 psi of boost pressure, that compressed air is hot!

Using an intercooler provides a cooler dense charge of air to your engine & the cooler the charge, the less likely you will detonate, so,, why not use one?

As far as the intercooler I have, I bought that big of one because I will eventually have a better flowing cylinder hear & do not want a restrictive intercooler. It is 4" thick & it was about $180 or so @ the time I bought it, but they are not as cheap anymore as they became more & more popular.
Example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/150588365700?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

This size intercooler would be way overkill for your app & is not needed. Plus this intercooler is actually bigger than the radiator core support cutout on my 69 Camaro. It is bigger than my engine radiator.

An air to air intercooler is your best bet & is more reliable than trusting your alky injection is going to work all the time, you can run out of alky while boosting, solenoid goes bad, wiring , plugged nozzle, etc. An intercooler is non electrical & is low maintenance as compared to an alky system or even an air to water intercooler.

Don't get me wrong, I have an air to water intercooler & an Alky control methanol injection on my Syclone, but you need to stay on top of it & make sure it is working @ all times.

Tlowe knows what industrial combine 2.5" exhaust manifolds on Ebay are. Tlowe?

MBHD
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#76419 - 08/16/13 03:37 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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There is this one for $115 free shipping
I emailed him to see if it has a 2.5" outlet, waiting for his response

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-1-4-8-230-250-...1fb0004&vxp=mtr

MBHD
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#76420 - 08/16/13 03:46 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
CNC-Dude #5585 Offline
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Building a turbo engine of any kind from scratch can be overwhelming for sure. There are so many more absolutes to consider that aren't always required or needed for a regular non turbo engine. Its good to hear you are not wanting to cut corners, it can be expensive to get all the intercooler stuff and other tthings Hank is recommending, but in the end it will all help to protect your investment and give you the best results as well. Tom Lowe has forged pistons on his website that are design with turbo useage in mind, so you can start there or search other manufacturers if you like. Keep us posted on your progress, you will get all the help you need right here.
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#76422 - 08/16/13 05:19 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: CNC-Dude #5585]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Just found out it has a 2" outlet Sorry.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-1-4-8-230-250-...1fb0004&vxp=mtr


MBHD
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#76423 - 08/16/13 06:19 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
TurboCamaro Offline
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I'm having issues with that link MBHD... Is it just me?

Ian
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#76424 - 08/16/13 06:29 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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It says it was just removed.
It was just a repost of the earlier post of a manifold w/only a 2" outlet.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-1-4-8-230-250-...1fb0004&vxp=mtr

MBHD
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#76426 - 08/16/13 07:33 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
TurboCamaro Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
It says it was just removed.
It was just a repost of the earlier post of a manifold w/only a 2" outlet.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-1-4-8-230-250-...1fb0004&vxp=mtr

MBHD
Yeah, I was under the impression that the 292 manifold that had the outlet in the middle (between cylinder 3-4) was 2" or 2.25" and the one I posted above, that has the outlet centered over cylinder 4-5 was 2.5". The one I posted should be 2.5" but it's so much cheaper than the rest I don't want to risk it. I'm still waiting on the response from the seller...


Edited by Ian67 (08/16/13 07:37 PM)
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#76429 - 08/16/13 09:37 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TurboCamaro Offline
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He replied and confirmed that it was the 2.5" outlet. I've since bought it and it should be available at my US pickup place by Wednesday. 1st part of the turbo build is on the way, I'm excited! Probably carb next and rebuild kit and then HEI. Then I think the turbo, unless I see something cheap along the way.

I'll be sure to post pics of it when it comes, more for me then anyone else :-P

Ian
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#76435 - 08/17/13 11:54 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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For tubing, you can go with stainless 409 (it rusts), 304 (no rust), or aluminized mild steel. Choice is yours & your budget.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-45-180-409-S...c2351d7&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vibrant-2609-2-5...75cabc4&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-45-180-Alumi...7283115&vxp=mtr

A 600 DP carb would work nice.

Just some ideas.

MBHD
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#76436 - 08/17/13 12:16 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Ian67
I'll be sure to post pics of it when it comes, more for me then anyone else :-P

Ian

That would be good to post some pics with a measuring devise (in the pic) showing the actual ID.

MBHD
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#76441 - 08/17/13 04:23 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
preacher-no choir Offline
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just like driving a regular motor, stay off the throttle and there will be no diff in gas milage --step in it and you start feedin' th' hosses!

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#76442 - 08/17/13 04:31 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
preacher-no choir Offline
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stainless 409 rusts?-never seen a cafeteria counter-top rust --thats what they are made of. 304 is a common architectural grade, 409 as well as other grades stainless can get a rust stain put on them, but they wont rust by themselves.

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#76446 - 08/17/13 08:17 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: preacher-no choir]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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 Originally Posted By: preacher-no choir
stainless 409 rusts?-never seen a cafeteria counter-top rust --thats what they are made of. 304 is a common architectural grade, 409 as well as other grades stainless can get a rust stain put on them, but they wont rust by themselves.


Look @ factory exhaust systems nowadays, 409 stainless & they rust. Not saying they rust through & rot fast, but they do rust, Look @ what materials are in it.

http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=969
Corrosion Resistance

Grade 409 resists atmospheric and exhaust gas corrosion. A light surface rust will form in most atmospheres; this rust retards further corrosion but makes the surface undesirable for decorative applications. The corrosion resistance is about the same as that of 3CR12 and the 12% chromium martensitic grades such as 410, and inferior to the 17% chromium grade 430.

The price difference between 304 & 409 should give you a hint on what is better material/rust resistant.

If a magnet can stick to 409 stainless, which it does, that means it's gonna rust, no?

MBHD
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#76454 - 08/18/13 12:03 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
TurboCamaro Offline
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The cost for the 304 is minimal in the long run. I belive I will get it to save any rusting or oxidizing.

MBHD, did you use an ebay intercooler piping kit to pipe from the turbo to the intercooler, and from the intercooler to the carb? And then one of the above pipes for the downpipe?

What do you guys think about the pros/cons of the Holley 500 and the 600 DP? Is the 600 going to be much worse on fuel? Is there one that is better than the other for my purpose?

Thanks!

Ian
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#76455 - 08/18/13 05:16 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
preacher-no choir Offline
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"If a magnet can stick to 409 stainless, which it does, that means it's gonna rust, no?"

The magnet sticking means its gonna make a real good Fender Telecaster bridge plate that dont rust like the stock chrome plated carbon steel ones do--ours never have and ones been in use for ten years now. Ever seen a countertop rust? Theres a lot of them in restaurants and schools--no rust, no.

409 Stainless Steels contain a
certain number of surface inclusions
which are the normal result of titanium
stabilization additions to improve the
steel. Occasionally, rusting may occur
at these inclusion sites and lead to problems
with cosmetic appearance. As a
result, these steels are not suggested
for applications where surface appearance
is a factor. In cases where surface
appearance is important, 400 stainless
steels should be considered

The temperature at which 409 starts to
exhibit destructive scaling in air is approximately
1450F (789C). This is considered
the general maximum service
temperature for continuous exposure in
air. However, maximum service temperatures
will vary appreciably, depending
on the atmospheres involved


Edited by preacher-no choir (08/18/13 05:25 AM)
Edit Reason: other opinions

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#76464 - 08/18/13 10:22 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: preacher-no choir]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Like I stated, 409 stainless rusts.
"A light surface rust will form in most atmospheres"
304 stainless does not surface rust & a magnet does not stick to it, no carbon steel.

409 stainless is a low grade stainless. 304, 316 much, much better.
Its applications(409) are those where appearance is a secondary consideration to mechanical properties and corrosion resistance.
tells you there in black & white, secondary consideration for appearance, hence, it rusts.

Need to look @ exhaust systems on most all cars, surface rust all over. Does not stay rust free like 304 or 316 does.

MBHD
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