Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance Packard help

Even the Packard purist would be glad to see a souped up I8 over a refitted SBC.

Turbo charging would be much easier than fitting a supercharger.

327 cubic inches and low RPM boost.

Check out this turbo selector chart from Turbonetics
http://www.turboneticsinc.com/sites/default/files/Turbo%20Matrix%20.pdf

It does not have your engine size and HP on the chart. So next is to make a educated guess on what to pick.
I have run a 62-1 turbo with a stage 5 wheel and small AR exh housing on a 300 cube 292. It would boost way too fast and produce too much boost at high rpm. In your application this particular turbo might work great. Your rpms will be at a much lower limit, such as 4000 max or lower.
You need to find out the rpms your engine turns at cruise speed.

For this engine I still like the McCulloch. They were made to blow through carbs. Here is a list of venders. John Erb in Carson City, Nevada might be able to help. The info here is not current. John no longer works for Silvolite pistons. He makes lots of Studebaker speed parts. He might help with piston ideas and cam grinds that work with his souped up superchargers. He is a busy guy so things don't happen really fast but he knows his stuff.

Beater,
The biggest problem with any supercharger is the drive connection and mounting to the engine. That is the biggest hangup with putting one on a 250-292 engine. It would also have to be on this I8.

Truth be known, if I had the money and knowledge, I would love to mess with a turbo. However, like a lot of us, have to be a frugal hot rod motor builder. I love seeing unusual inline motors hopped up. I have never seen a packard hopped up. Would be pretty cool to see a packard done up, with or without a turbo.

On the Kaiser flathead six the supercharger mount used head bolts with studs on top. The tensioner was part of the mount and the 2 bbl carb was in a box so it had the same pressure inside and out. It only needed a float change. With me it's a cool factor deal sense this thing probably won't out run a much cheaper no class SBC. I'm just a more old timey guy. Remember I worked my way through college by robbing stagecoaches. That said. There are more guys here that could help with a turbo build which is a little cooler than a SBC.

I would love to go turbo but the cost involved over using the 471 I already have might put it out of the range, for now anyway. The McColloch/ Paxton option would be period correct for sure but it goes back to cost over what I already have (not to say I wont do it anyway as I love the look of them). The turbo option is very appealing because at tlowe said mounting would be much easier.

The idea I'm playing around with right now is a bit of a multistage approach. the 327 does run, its by no means a fresh rebuild but it doesn't smoke. So thinking I can get it on the road with just an intake swap from he factory 2bbl to the Edmunds 2X2, dual exhaust and maybe the head swap with my 288 spare engine to bump the compression another point. That would make me feel better than leaving it completely stock. I could then use the spare 288 as it is externally identical to the 327 to mock up a supercharger system of some kind as money becomes more available.

Unless I change my mind/ get a good deal on another option I'll be using the 471 with the "I already have it" reasoning thinking about mounting it to the drivers side (opposite of the intake/ exhaust)on its side make a carb flange of some sort and run piping over the top of the engine to possible the Edmunds intake. Any thoughts?

As way as what it may outrun it may be surprising, I know much more goes into making a car fast but my Packard at around 300HP (my goal) would have a very close HP to weight ratio as a 2005 mustang (Packard 3800ish lbs stock 300 HP, Mustang 3500 lbs 300 HP). Traction, aerodynamics, RPM potential, ect still means it would not be as fast as a Mustang but it would probably give a Mustang a pretty hard time.

A 4-71 would be my last choice WRT mechanical blowers; it has high weight, big package size, high discharge temps, and high parasitic load for the amount of boost it produces.

That makes sense but at 7-10 psi boost level be significant enough to build excessive heat? the weight is a downsize but I do have more than enough room. I'm not planning on mounting it directly to the intake manifold as in a conventional sense but through piping and have the blower on the opposite side of the engine. Would an intercooler be an option to lower the discharge temp? In my mind I want to use a 471 similar to how a Paxton is used, put it where I want it then run piping to the intake. I know intercollers are used with Paxton systems but the fuel is introduced after the intercooler so I dont know if it would work having the fuel and air snaking through an intercooler.

I saw one a long time ago in pics of a blower setup similar that wasn't actually bolted to the engine. It was in front of the engine at the crank centerline with the blower snout facing the balancer on the crankshaft(direct drive with a coupler). It used a series of 3"-4" diameter piping to direct the flow of air as needed. So anything is possible, its just going to add to the complexity of the fab work required to install it.

Was this on a V8 engine like the old Potvin system from Moon? I will keep an eye out for a decent centrifugal supercharger as it seems to be the best solution of power, cost, ease of use. I still have more than enough time before any supercharger will be on the car so I might be able to come up with a better option than the 471

Not sure of the name, but I do think it was on a Bonneville car, like a lakester or streamliner, hence the front mount(not much vertical clearance), but was a Flathead Ford i'm pretty sure. Might have even been in Joe Abbin's book now that I think about it a little more. I'll look again and see. I'm also pretty sure it was a Roots style blower too, so it could have been 4-71 or 6-71 from back in the day, or similar.

I think I have seen similar setups and they look really BA but I don't think I have the room to add another foot and a half to the front of my engine. What about front balancers for this thing? would it be worth my time to find one that can be made to fit or use a stock/ reproduction one?

I have to say thank you to everyone for input and ideas. Just a few days ago I started this post and we are at like 50 posts now and two pages. I never would have though this many people not only would be interested but encouraging about my decent into madness lol.

Please keep us up on what you are doing. Which ever way you take it will be an adventure. Your enthusiasm may be contagious and might help get me into the shop.

"no class sbc", Beater, that's pretty funny, but so very true,lol.

Don't tell any one but I have 4 vehicles with them and a few more in the engine pile.

I will keep everyone informed for sure, now I have to do something with it lol. In the next couple weeks I'm going to do a really good checkup on it then go from there.

I liked your idea of making a few changes and driving it while figuring more out.

Yeah the car though slightly rough doesn't really need a lot to be on the road brakes, battery, a thorough cleaning on the inside and a few odds and ends, and having a two door hardtop Packard on the road means more to me than having the fastest two door hardtop Padkard 3 years from now.

Now you're talking. Get that thing on the road and fix little stuff while you build the killer setup.

do a packard trans with the borg warner r11 (4 pinion planet gear) over drive. With all the gear choices great advantage can be taken of all that torque. The 49-54 packard trans before the t85 was a tough tranny. They strarted using them in the mid fifties when cad lasalles got scarce. They ended up in a lot of 55 Chevys an so forth. I have another 302 gmc project after I get the fire truck going. It's a 39 Chevy chopped fender less bobber truck. Got a packard trans to Chevy bell housing adapter goin to a Dana 44 rear. 50 packard trans with R11 OD and 38 trans top floor shifter.
Point is the early packard trans were known to be stout. I'm thinking theBW OD will be all kinds of fun to play with

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&e...382068588363771
Check this out.

Thanks for the transmission info I have seen them from time to time on ebay but the shipping is always very rough. I founds a 1949 Packard in a junkyard here but to get the trans I would have to buy the whole car and I have no where to keep it so...

A good book for modifying old engines, including flatheads is Phil Irvings, Tuning for speed. Though written many years ago it is still available , & still relevant. Phil designed among other things the Vincent engine, Repco Brabham, & Irving heads.
His writing style is easy to read, & quite useful.

Floyd Clymer's book "Souping the Stock Engine" has a lot of good generic information on warming up older engines. Some basic paths to power are discussed.

Tex Smith's Flathead Ford hot rod book is good for all Flathead's of any brand and has pertinent info that can help you get the most out of one from the mild to the wild.

I've seen that at Bonneville for the past several speed week events.

IIRC I saw it there before I saw it in print.

Wow, It looks a lot like the one on the first page of this thread.

Thanks for the book info going on Amazing right now. I have one that is pretty interesting that some of you might find useful "Hot Rods: How to Build and Race Them" written by John Christy in around 1960

Wow $200 for tuning for speed and $70 for The Tex Smith book! Might need to save my pennies for those lol.

Sorry I couldn't Find the Phil Irving book.

Clymer

Tex Smith

"Souping the Stock Engine" was mostly the work of Roger Huntington. Floyd copyrighted and published the material. The same arrangement produced the book "How to Hop Up Chevrolet and GMC".

Check your local library, you would be surprised what they have. I last read "tuning for speed" by borrowing from my library.

Good idea cc I will check that out.

Regarding the library...They can usually get books on an inter-library loan from just about anywhere. I've gotten books through the library here that were from across the country. One was one of a very small number in circulation. Anyway, give it a try. If it's out there, they'll find it and get it for you.

The Packard boxes were tough, their only weak link was their cases which would split caused by the main gears pushing away from the cluster gear under big loads, resulting in a lot of guys wrapping and welding steel straps around them--very tedious welding task as the cast iron on trannys is like a block, needs nickle rods to go with preheating/ welding short beads/then peening 'til cool, then start all over again. Using the early floor shift box with an overdrive makes for a fun transmission. Supposedly the Packards had a sychronized low gear 'way ahead of their time (maybe it was the B/W overdrive?). The Cad Lasalles were the "rock crushers" of their day, even used in the early rails-usually using second/high only. When they ran out-they ran out--they didn't make very many Lasalles compared to Fords or Chevys.

I don't know what you are really wanting to wind up with but years ago (early 60s) a kid in our neighborhood traded a summers worth of yard mowing for a 52/54 Packard 4 door with a ultramatic in it that had no low range but he was driving it. My Dad told him that was one of the toughest transmissions ever built at that time, and to check the trans fluid it might be low. Never found a dip stick pulled a plug on the side of the case and filled like a manual trans. using regular trans fluid and low gear started working. The next thing I knew he was drag racing it doing high RPM ( for it) neutral drops he kept messing with it and got it turning in the High 16s. Which was fairly fast for a street car back then. Never did blow the trans but finally tore the rear end out and sold it for junk.

Bill, wow lol, 16 second quarter mile times is pretty good for a stock Packard faster than I would have guessed. I can never find anything on the Ultramatic I was going between the adapter to modern auto, modern stick, Hydramatic 4 speed or Packard manual swap. The Ultramatic has a really good torque converter it is a full lock up style from what I read that is similar to a modern one. But again NO hot rod info on them at all. I was concerned about how tough they were and if making decent power would fry it, but if high RPM (in perspective) neutral drops in a 4k pound car wont hurt it I might keep it for a while, I have the one in my car and one on my spare engine so that's 2 I can abuse lol. Worst case use up my cores and go to something else later down the road.

Packard three speed were used in mid to late 50s for drag racing. A google search will find you some old HRM articles on the subject. You an adapter for it and they were also available with BW OD. Packard had their own trans thru about 54 and then they used BW trans. Some of which were T85s which were also pretty tough with R11 OD, don't know if they would bolt up to a straight 8 bell housing or not.

Robert is correct a lot of blown Hemis had Packard 3 speeds behind them. PackardKid I am not sure that it was completely stock and I think he had lighten it up some but it still was a big square box. He would pull up to the line and when the flag man would point at him to be ready he would push it clear to the floor and it took about a week to wind up or so it seemed. We were racing Chevys with alum flywheels in those days which reved quick so the old packard sounded weird it reved up so slow and it scared the flag man to death cause he just knew something was going to fly apart and hit him. That old packard hurt a lot of guys feelings that had 1957 283 single four chevys, which was a fairly fast street car back then. High 16s and low 17s

I don't know about Packard autos but Studebaker automatics were Borg Warner and were tough. From '57 to the end Packards were Studebakers.