Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected Turbo Packard questions

Well I'm starting to gear up for my Packard project some of you may have read my posts on the high performance thread. After deep thought and some Google research I decided that a turbo will likely be the way I go on my 327 L8 flathead. I originally wrote a pretty detailed post but when I went to post I missed a required field and lost it all. So I will keep this one short and sweet (sort of).

I'm fairly sure no one here has a turbo Packard inline but I'm guessing a lot of tech for say a Chevy 6 or flatheads in general will carry over so feel free to give me any input that you see fit.

My engine was factory rated at 150 HP, with a good rebuild and some good old fashioned hard work I'm decently confident I can get it close to 200 HP before the addition of the turbo system. I will be using good aftermarket parts for the pistons and rods stock crank an aluminum factory head if I can find one if not I will use either my 288 head (off the spare engine) with a smaller combustion chamber or the OE 327 head depending on my compression needs. I found a local guy who can regrind my cam though I'm not expecting to get much out of it the stock specs are pretty wimpy.

My questions deal mainly with turbo size. I am guessing this thing will be pretty close to all in at the 4000-4500 RPM range so diesel turbo? usefulness of an intercooler (air to air). Fuel injection (EFI or mechanical) Or good old fashioned carb. Ignition mods IE Joe Hunt says they can make me a magneto, MSD crank trigger with hollowed out stock distributor, Pertronix electronic upgrade ect.

This will not be a drag car as such, I might get frisky and run it down the track but mainly it will be a street car wowing car show spectators and giving V8 guys a run for their money. With that said I don't want it to look like it can do way more than it actually can, not wanting a sleeper just don't want it to look like a prostock and run like a Camry so the mods need to have a purpose either giving me more performance or increasing durability.

I would like to get it built up to around the 300 HP range at a minimum but more is always better. and I do plan on having the rest of the drive train set up to use what I give it.

Any information would be very helpful as I am not overly familiar with turbos but the cost and work involved rivals a GMC supercharger or a Paxton/ Vortech setup with less negatives.

Packardkid,
Can you post pictures of the combustion chamber of the heads this is the most important part of a Turbo flathead.

Yes I will get some up hopefully tomorrow

I wasn't able to get any pictures of my personal head over my days off got to busy so I just snagged some off the internet but they are accurate to what I have. Hopefully this helps.

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/6/8/5/7/3/6/webimg/706393602_tp.jpg

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/6/8/5/7/3/6/webimg/706393593_tp.jpg

http://www.blackcar-llc.com/images/packardhead2.jpg

Is this the small or large combustion chamber ?
They look good, what you want on a flathead is very good transfer area between the cylinder and the chamber don't care about the compression ratio.
The plug over the exhaust valve is good, keep the piston tight to the head to push all the mixture over into the chamber, this is the best swirl, tumble, etc. that you can design in a combustion chamber. That is why you don't need much advance on a flathead, and it works so good with boost. Since the engine design does not need much advance you can run more boost than most engines that flow poorly.
Also on the cam, not much lift so the air can flow over the top of the valves, especially the intake valve " think mild ".
What is the firing order?
Can you post a picture of the outside of the engine.
Two small turbo's may work better than one.

You won't believe how good a turbo works on a Flathead.

Those are of the small combustion chamber. I have heard that the Packard's had a really good combustion chamber design.
What would you recommend for piston to head clearance on modern OHV engines I have heard 35-40 thousandths does the same hold true in a boosted flathead?
I will be using a stock reground cam as to the best of my knowledge no cam blanks are available so big lift will not be something that will be happening. What would you suggest the valve to combustion chamber clearance be? I can mill the head or go thicker on the gasket if need be. On that note relieve the block or no? I have heard pros and cons to both but seems like you have had a turbo flathead before so which did you prefer.
firing order is 1-6-2-5-8-3-7-4
I will get some pictures of the outside of my spare engine I have the intake and exhaust manifolds off it right now but it has 8 exhaust ports and 4 intakes and they are not very large and sadly these engines don't have a lot of meat in them for extensive porting.

Oh and the difference in compression ratio between the 288 (small engine small combustion chamber)and the 327 (big chamber) is 7.70 on the small one and 7 on the big so with the added cubic inches and the smaller chamber if everything were stock (unmilled) I would guess somewhere in the 8 to 1 range using the small head on the big engine maybe a tad more.

On Piston to head clearance about .040 w/steel rods.
Do not want big lift, must flow over valves.
Mill head only to make flat.
Valve to chamber top as large as possible. But not with thick gasket.
DO NOT relieve block, hopefully valves are even or lower than block surface, put a small radius on the cylinder edge in the combustion chamber area only, about 1/8 to 3/16. helps to turn air fuel into cylinder, not sharp edge.

Do you know cam lift and duration, if not check it out, and the separation angle between intake and exhaust lobe on the same cylinder [ this is very important on a turbo engine].

Important note: with boost need more spring pressure because of boot pressure on back side of intake valve.

Too bad on only 4 intake ports, depends on port layout and valve timing events.

Check cc of large chamber and small chamber want large transfer area but try to keep compression at 8-1, but transfer area is most important.

Built two turbo Flatheads 1 race 514 HP 640 FT LBS *
1 street 350+ HP

* Race turbo flow maxed out would have made more with larger turbo, Still set record at Bonneville at 212 MPH

The valves are set into the block at a slight angle facing towards the cylinder (similar to a Hudson 6)
I will have to have the cam checked to get all its specs, thus far I am unable to find all the info on it.
I think I'm going to have some fun with finding springs they are kinda short and fat but I haven't checked the out to see if a common spring will interchange. The engine uses 3/8 valves right now, I plan on going to a good stainless would it be wise to go with an 11/32 valve stem or should I keep the 3/8?
Were you running ford V8s at the power numbers you listed and how streetable was the 350+ street engine and did you run into any durability issues?

The street motor is all stock and no issues, the great thing with turbos, is when not under boost it's just a stock running engine with no extra forces against it, the perfect street setup.
If you get Rodders Journal issue number 60 the car is on the cover with a complete wright up on the car.

I don't know anything on the internal parts of a Packard but I'm sure you can get anything you need with a little searching.

write-up not wright up, I'm an IDIOT!

No worries I'm just as bad most days. I will try to get those additional pictures up this weekend, my work schedule has been very hectic this week so I have had no time for projects

I was fixin' to say if Orville or Wilbur wrote it....

What class was the turbo flatty Bonneville record in Harry?

The class was XF/BGL that is Flathead / Blown Gas Lakester
Set record in 2003 at 208 something. The first run was 204 The second was 212 good enough to get in the 200 MPH Club, now it's 214 something.

We built the engine to try a turbo flathead, put in in a friends car, he wanted to get into the Two Club, I thought a turbo would work good on a flathead. My brother had got into the Club in 2001, and our friend being older really wanted in the Club bad.

Turbo-6, did you add any form of piston of themo cooling?

I remember a few years back where a turbo flathead equipped streamliner got to some ridiculous speed on their first full pass only to loose the engine.

As I recall one of the pistons melted through, and the other 7 had metal movement.

From what I could see (parts laid out on a table after teardown) it appeared the damage was centered in the are of the piston directly over the connecting rod.

I expect that was the thinnest part of the crown (it usually is) and additional cooling may stave that off long enough to complete the pass.

A thermal barrier on the crown might help as well (I have no idea if the pistons I saw had such a barrier).

Just curious if you have found any of that, and what you my have done to prevent that (if it's not a secret ).

I don't have many secrets, The exhaust ports were coated to keep the heat from transferring to the water, that is the only coatings we used.

We were lucky, on the first pass the driver said he would take it easy and went 204 that was good for the record so we put it in impound. The next morning we towed it to the line for the back up run and it was missing we checked the plug wires etc. and could not find the problem. We put 2 more lbs boost and told the driver to go for it. Running on 7 cylinders it went 212. And got him in the Two Club our goal. Found out later one of the valve seats came loose and was holding the valve open.
He has since sold his car and stopped racing.

My 37 has no coatings but I plan to use some on my next build.

I was considering the coatings on as much of my engine internals as possible, Valves pistons intake/ exhaust runners, ect. With no aftermarket support I was thinking like add a couple horse power here and there and have it add up over the build plus the added durability. In your opinion would it be worth the expense?

With engines of low V/E (that is poor air flow) you need to run
more boost than a normal overhead valve or cam engine to get the same level of power.

So you need to have less ignition advance to control the heat in the combustion chamber, and with less advance you start to burn the fuel in the exhaust and create a vicious circle of heat control in the entire system.

At least with a flathead combustion chamber, to get maximum power you don't need the advance of most engines.

I would think that coating as much as you can afford is very helpful and worth the expense.

Sounds great, I love spending more money I need to find a local shop that can do the work I don't trust myself with the do it your self kits. I will get some more pictures of the engine up as soon as possible, whenever I have free time it seems to be raining.

Sounds great, I love spending more money I need to find a local shop that can do the work I don't trust myself with the do it your self kits. I will get some more pictures of the engine up as soon as possible, whenever I have free time it seems to be raining.