Inliners International Forums General Discussion Drive Train 3 Speed Overdrive Throttle Kickdown Sw. Mounting

Anyone got a picture of how the kickdown mounts to the Carb on an inline 6? Just picked up a Overdrive Trans and all the stuff to go with it, but do not have any info on how the Kickdown switch mounts to the Carburetor. Any pictures and help would be apprectiated. thanks chopt39 #6120

This may help.

LINK

LINK 2

LINK 3

Hey Beater, I can't thank you enough for these links and your help. I'm putting this into my '58 Chevy pickup with 3.90 gears, for the moment, as I have a set of 3.73s in a 12 bolt that is the same width, drum to drum as the '58. It came out of a 66 Chevy pickup, for anyone wanting to change over. This setup will save me a ton of money, going to the Overdrive instead of costly gear changes to the original. Thanks again and happy inlining. Chopt39

Chopt, Glad to help. I spent most of today working on and cleaning a T86 OD that will be in my '26 roadster. When I got most of the grease and dirt off it still has most of the Studebaker green on it. I'm putting a top shifter from a Jeep T90 on it so I'll have a 3 speed floor shift OD. I have a few Dana 44 gear sets to choose from. My first choice is a 4,27 set that came in my son's '54 Stude Conestoga since the roadster will have a 4 cylinder they may be a good choice. The OD will still get it down the road at about 75mph.

Sounds like you have a few projects to sort through. I've been measuring the difference between the transmissions and checking the length of the driveline. I like the idea of a Microswitch for the kick down will have to research this or come up with an idea to mount the stock one. Thinking maybe through the floor to hit the Accelerator pedal but not really sure right now. I have the floor shifter hooked and and working on the bench so at least that is done. I still have to sort out the wiring, had to search through all kinds of manuals to find out what fuse to use in the main circuit, and finally found one in an old Chilton's manual I have that goes back to '63 that tells me a 15 amp fuse is the one. Anyway again thanks for the input. I like your line from Mark Twain, but it may be the other way around. Being a Christian I sometimes wonder about what man is thinking in some of the ways he does stuff. Good luck on your projects. al 6120

On one of our Texas trips in my son's '54 Stude wagon we were burning out 15 amp OD fuses. Like a idiot I started putting in higher rated ones. When we got to 30 it burned up the solenoid. WE went from Vegas to Kingman at 55mph, (that 4.27 to 1 gear set). After much searching and contact with local Studebaker guys we found a local shop that repaired generators and alternators. He took the cap off of the solenoid and we found it had a fusible link inside. He resoldiered it cleaned it and we were on our way. The problem was a leaky solenoid seal that gummed it up. #1. stick to the 15 amp fuse. #2. never throw an OD solenoid away. they can be fixed. A problem with the Studebaker version of the T 86 is that they used a 2 piece drive shaft and don't have a slip yoke on the output shaft. Yeah, lots of projects and little focus.

Does the T86 have the R10 or R11 overdrive fitted to it?

Ray, It uses the R10. They were used by Studebaker behind the V8s at least up to the 259 and I think the 289. Some of the 289s used the T85 R11s and T10 four speeds. The T86s are reasonably strong if not abused. My son went through 3 with the supercharged bored 289. One was low gear when he tried to make up lost traction on our boulder by applying more throttle. The other two were in second gear under hard acceleration and max boost just before shifting into 3rd. T86s don't have straight cut gears in low like some others did.
I have not even though about looking to see if the R11 might be adaptable to a T86. But we've never blown an OD. Probably won't the Stude has a T5 now.

I wired my Suburban with a DPDT switch and a Bosch relay.

Diagram

Nice diagram. Thanks

Hey Ray, I had the cover off of the Solenoid yesterday and I found no evidence of a fuesable link so have to wonder where it might be. Also the numbers on the trans I have are G86 with GM numbers on the side cover.
When you install the Cable from the dash, in what position is the lever at the back or the lockout?
I cleaned up the solenoid and put it all back together but think maybe it needs to have all the wiring hooked up to test it. Anyway thanks again for the Info it has helped immensely. chopt39

It sounds like your trans is the 50s-early 60s GM OD. The OD is still Borg Warner. Inside the solenoid there is a big wire soft soldered to a bar that connects to the coil windings.. That solder will melt under too much current hopefully before the windings melt. It can be reattached. It's not a modern fusible link but it could be reconnected with a link wire.
When the cable is pushed in it is "in" overdrive. When the cable is pulled out overdrive is locked "out". On the Stude the cable goes from under the dash through the firewall and loops back to the trans. So when the cable is pushed in the OD lever is pushed back and when the cable is pulled out the lever is moved forward.

It was supposed to have come out of 66 chevy pickup. I know about the in and out thing but on initial set up and attachment of the cable should the cable be pushed in? And the lever should it be all the way back? I didn't see anything like you described inside the solenoid. Guess I'll have to take it apart again and check. Thanks again for the info, seems like I addressed the wrong person in the last entry so Thanks Beater. chopt39

I'll try to get out to the shop and take some pictures. It's been a while sense I looked inside one. I think I have the solenoid that we repaired on the trans I'm working on. I'll also make sure I have the lever position right.
In '67 I think Chevy went to the Saginaw 3 speed OD. Yours is what they used before that. It'll do fine. I have one of those in the pile.

Your help is much appreciated, I'm trying to get all the ducks in a row before installing the trans. I couldn't locate a plug for the wiring so I'm thinking of using a trailer plug. Want to have the trans wired when it goes in. Thought about just installing it cuz it can be just like a regular 3 speed if the electrics aren't working, but have decided to wait, I hate crawling under the truck to do the work. Thanks again. chopt39

Here are some pictures for today. The first 3 are of what I think is your trans. Picture #1 shows the lock out lever at the "in"OD" position. The cable would be pushed in at the dash. With the cable pulled out the lever will move to the forward position and the OD will be locked out.The # on the side cover is 3741357. In the 2nd picture the J 8 67 would indicate that this one was cast October 8,1967. The OD is from Warner Gear division and it is an R10 so it has a 3 planetary gears in the OD set.







The next three are of the T86 solenoid that we repaired in Flagstaff on a trip to Texas. It has 3 terminals. The one on the GM trans has 2. The first picture shows the wire that was re-soldered. The original was soft soldered so that it would melt before damage was done to the windings.
Millions of these were thrown away because people didn't know they could be fixed. The present joint probably would not protect it but the fuse does and I have learned not to exceed ti 15AMP fuse, well not by much anyway. If I was reparing another on I would try using a 20AMP fusible link. The 2nd picture shows a black wire soldered to the terminal that the orange wire is connected in the 3rd picture. It grounds to the outer case. This is only a ground and the thing will work without it. I think it is like the green safety ground on power tools.







I hope this helps.

I'll have to look again, but the solenoid I have is a two wire and it has slanted cover if you are looking at it mounted on the trans. The pictures are a great help you've exceeded my expectations. I'll also have to look at the numbers again. This is what hot rodding is about that I missed back in the 90's when I quit going to street rod runs, cuz no one knew what they had cuz they bought it from someone else and didn't build them themselves. Thanks again

I did notice that the sidecover was different as mine has a bolt in the middle and broached for a slotted lever, otherwise it looks a lot like the one I have, only the solenoid is a bit different. chopt39

Is your like this? 7 side plate bolts? Angle on solenoid cap? Longer shaft 1 3/4"? Solenoid 2nd from top in 3rd photo? If so you have the Queen of 3 speed ODs. It is a '77 and later Saginaw. That is the OD unit that can be mated with with the Saginaw 4 speed. It is rare. Although the 3 speed gear set is better suited for OD because there is a greater difference between gears so you can split them all. Even in the wider ratios of the 4 speeds the gears are so close together that the only real advantage of the OD is 4th over. The bad thing about the Saginaw is that in order to clear the case the solenoid shaft had to be longer. It only fits that unit. A lot of the others will interchange. They are very hard to find and very expensive.

This is sure looks like the one I have. The solenoid on the bottom looks exactly like what is on the trans. The wiring plug on the one picture is what I'm going to replace with a trailer cord, should work unless I can find the male side of this plug. Sorry to put you through all this work but I really want to thank you. Good to know about the solenoid only fitting this particular trans. I would suspect that this being a later trans that it should be a good one to use. If I knew how to put pictures on this site I would send you some pictures of it. Or you could email me at 58chevyinline@gmail.com and I'll send you some pictures by return. Anyway thank you so much for your help, I would have been floundering around like a wounded whale if not for you. chopt39

You are more than welcome. I'm not an expert on these BW OD units but I've dealt with them quite a bit and the Saginaw is the only one I've seen with the slanted cap. I like to use them they are very efficient and fun to use. Solenoids show up on eBay and at swap meets from time to time. I'm sending an email.

I tried to send you the pictures but I guess I don't know how, so anyway, waiting for your email. The email address is: 58chevyinline@gmail.com
I did take some pictures today and they look just like the ones you last sent. Was wondering if you might know of someone who has a wiring harness for the trans, I have all the rest and it ends in a small round 3 female plug, so I need the harness that goes on the trans or at least the male part of the plug. If you do let me know and I'll get in touch with them and find out what they want for it. Thanks again, have a great weekend. chopt39. Al

I just sent an email. Try to send the pics in an email and I can try to post them. I couldn't open them in the PM you sent. I'll see what I can find in my connector pile.

Chopt39, Here are your Trans pictures. Lucky you it is a '67 or later Saginaw 3 speed OD. It will is a great choice for your truck and if you set out to find one you probably would give up before you found it and you sure would not want to pay the price. OK now lets find the wire connector you need.

Thanks Beater this is good to know, at least I know what I have and info when I need parts. Still don't know if the solenoid is good and the governor. Thanks for looking for that connector. Let me know if you find one and the Price. I'm happy that this is a good item. Right now there's a Saginaw 3 speed on Craigs list in the Redding area for $250 if anyone is interested. This tranny was taken out about 20 years ago and has been in a fellow Inliners garage, he was going to use it in a 41 coupe but decided to go with the later S-10 5 speed, lucky me. Be talking to you. chopt39

Glad to be able to help. If that trans on Craig's List is like yours and good it is a steal at $250. Most of the Saginaw 3 speeds were not overdrives. They used the same case as the 4 speeds. The main shaft for the OD is different and is the critical part necessary use the OD either with the 3 or 4 speed trans.

Here's a LINK to a discussion on another site. I don't think I've posted this before.

Hey Beater, thanks for the link although one needs to be careful when clicking on the pictures as it brings up porn, not cool. Was wondering if you may have come across that plug we talked about earlier? Hope all is good with you. chopt39

I couldn't find the porn and I also did not find the plug. There are some complete wire harnesses on eBay but they are pricey. I think you could use any 3 wire plug set. There is a book at Oriley's that lists about every automotive wire connector made if you can get someone to look in it.

Thanks again, will try that book you mentioned, thought about a trailer plug it should work, also thinking about some kind of button for the kick down. Thanks for looking. chopt39

All of the various forms of relays and kick downs show up on eBay regularly. You just have to get the ones that work together. The trans doesn't care if the electricity is running through a GM,Ford,or Studebaker style of switches.