Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance New to the inline world, just got a new car.

Man, I've stumbled across a gold-mine here.

Just got a 64 Chevy Belair with a 250 inline in it. Currently isn't running. Looks like it's been modified in the past. Previous owner really took care of it from what I can tell.

What are the benefits of keeping the inline vs swapping it over to a small block? I'm hell bent on keeping it inline but if the motor is too much trouble to get running again, I'm going to drop it for a v8.

Yup. I just discovered this forum less than a year ago, and I've learned a ton about the Chevy inline 6 here. I was in a somewhat similar situation when I bought my '78 250cid 3spd manual Camaro. The low mileage all original L6 was not running, and my original intention was a small block swap. But after tinkering with I replaced the rotten fuel lines, reconnected the clutch interlock plug, corrected the #3 & #4 spark plug wires, replaced the shredded negative battery cable and it fired right off. So the small block swap was put on hold while I put money into replacing missing trim and polishing it up. As I put a list together of everything I would need for the small block build, I discovered I had only the alternator and lower engine mounts that I could reuse. Everything else needed to be swapped out from the pulleys, power steering pump, starter and upgrading to a larger radiator which all started adding up towards the $3k range and I would still need to swap out the 3spd manual for something that could handle the added power. Then last year both my businesses took a nosedive, and the build went super economy level, and I decided upgrading the top end of the L6 would be half the cost of small block and started researching that. I didn't have a small block V8, transmission or other parts already; which if you already do than a small block swap is going to be cheaper. Doing a performance V8 build from scratch like I had to do was just too costly when I had a working L6 already. Plus keeping it original makes it unique at the drive nights, it really gets the attention.

The first benefit to keeping the inline is that you get all of us for friends and we'll help you. Next is that your car won't just be another 350/350 and blend into the crowd. Most important is the fun of taking "the road less traveled". Being different just to be different is as meaningless as being the same just because it is easy, but taking another route because you enjoy making the most of what you already have can be it's own reward. I got into this partly because the cars I could afford had sixes and it was in those days cheaper to build the 6 I had than to buy, build, and convert to a V8. And lets face it we wouldn't run a stock small block either.

With some modifications to your L6 already, you are ahead of me in the budget build since mine is a stock integrated head with a Monojet. What is already on the engine intake, carb and exhaust wise? Did the previous owner mention any internal upgrades as far as the cylinder head, cam and pistons?

As far as I know, it's mostly stock internally but has an HEI. It's got a a pretty fancy paint job but nothing special.

I just placed an order at Langdons for a 32/26, adapter, and intake water heater.

So you have a Langdon exhaust with Offenhauser intake, or just the stock manifolds?

Deciding on the Clifford Short Tubes or Langdon Cast Headers. Either way it'll be stock intake manifold.

Going off information gathered both here and the HAMB boards.

The Clifford long tube truck headers are the best exhaust choice available (also the most expensive), otherwise the Langdon cast headers are no slouch. A budget performance option is the 292 cid HD exhaust manifold with 2.5" outlet is also an option and available from T.H.E. Company:

http://shop.the-co.com/MANIFOLD-3-BOLT-FLANGE-292EM.htm

I have a car so the Clifford headers are not an option, the hang way too low. And I'm on an extreme budget so I'll be going with the 292EM.

With the stock intake and a Monojet, you might want to look into replacing the factory 210cfm Monojet with the HD 250cfm Monojet from a 292 truck motor.

The Langdon carb looks like great setup. Not a huge fan of the aircleaner, but it'll have to do for now.

Got the car runnin' in time for Back to the Fifties up here in MN. Langdons setup ran great. Cruises real nice on the freeway at 60mph, about 1500 rpm. She's a screamin' demon with the Thrush setup. Couldn't get it routed all the way back before the weekend, so it's exiting right under the cabin. Loud as heck but sounds great at partial throttle!

WOW!!!! My father had a brand new 2door 64 belair the same color and everything! I loved that car. Only in the 3rd grade at the time. What transmission do you have? How do you know that it's a 250? He did not have any back up lights either. Did the exhaust help? Jay 6155

This one has a three speed automatic, th350. Previous owner swapped the 230 out and replaced it with the 250/350 setup. Mild cam rebuild. I didn't drive it with the stock exhaust, so i cant compare it to much. Sounds cool and still has the low end torque the inlines are known to produce.

I like it. It should be fun to drive and certainly not a cookie cutter approach. Get the exhaust out the back so you don't gas the folks in the back seat.

still has the low end torque the inlines are known to produce.

Ah, yes, another myth that will not die.

Feel free to correct me. Why is this a myth? I'm confuse.d

The inline 6's does have a lower RPM peak torque as compared to a typical SBC.
Stock max torque is at 1200-1500 RPM ish?

Typical SBC peak torque is at a higher RPM? 2000 RPM or higher?

Don't have the numbers in front of me, just going from memory.

MBHD

The shape of the torque versus rpm curve is what you are referring to "low end torque the inlines..."

Torque curve shape is primarily dependent on camshaft selection and is independent of whether the engine is inline, vee, or whatever.

A more technically accurate statement is: Inline engines often have short duration camshafts for pedestrian use and therefore produce peak torque at relatively low rpm.

The turbo 350 is one of the best swaps that can be done to a car like what you have that either came with an auto trans or if you have decided to run one IMHO. The swap gets a big drivability improvement with very few hassles. Was the car orignally a Poweglide? I take it that you have the stock 3.08 ratio rear axle? If so are you considering the ratio? Because the center section comes out easy, you could have another set of gears made up and swap back and forth as desired. With a small increase in tire height the 3.08 would work well for just crusing. What year is the engine? Anything done to it like cam ect? I wonder if the Gonkulator could tell us the dragstrip difference with the trans swap alone? Jay 6155

Oops, just re read that you have a small cam and engine is rebuilt. Do you have cam specs? Jay 6155

Looks from the pics like it used to be a 3-on-the-tree car but now is a T350.

In any case FYI, Ive run the Gonkulator on a couple such swaps, usually the swap from Powerglide to T350 makes it about a full second and 1-2mph better in the quarter especially with tall 3.08 gears.

Not sure if the 64 still has the dropout rear or that ended in 1963?

I think 64s still had drop out rear ends. I know that 65s were different. I would like to see more pics of that 64! I also wish that I didn,t allready have a th350 I could use the full second off my 19.13 time! What would it be worth to change first gear on the th 350 to 2.75 or 3.06? The cost is about $500, I wonder if its money well spent. What kind of 1/4 mile time and speed would that 64 be expected to run? Jay 6155

Jay78: I finally found your thread a few months back on the stopwatch 19.13 at 73. Good method, I used to do that with my dad back in the day.

So I built a Gonkulator file of your car (about 140hp gross unsmogged, 115hp net like today's ratings)

With the T350 you have the Gonkulator said
2.99 60ft
12.54 at 57.1mph 1/8-mile
19.39 at 71.0mph 1/4-mile, call it close enough

I tried a T200
2.92
12.35 at 57.1
19.20 at 70.4 I wouldn't bother

Also tried a Powerglide for fun, what a dog
3.29 (I could WALK 60ft almost that fast)
13.66 at 56.2
20.72 at 68.1 (more than a second slower)

Next try was a 200-4r trans and 3.73 gears, 2500stall:
2.48
11.57 at 57.7
18.41 at 71.6
A full second quicker than where you are now, and a lockup converter to cruise for MPG.
I would aim in this direction unless you come across something for free.
This is all with the engine left alone, so far.
But until you get some gears in that machine I wouldn't change much under the hood.

Looks like the 78 Nova is about 450lb heavier than the 62-64 Novas equipped the same way. My early ones weigh in about 2850lb with a 250/t350.

Cruisin64's BelAir is about 200lb heavier than your Super-Nova so actually with the mods it already has, might be close to what you are seeing.

Thanks for putting me in the database. Super Nova means super heavy bumpers right? I am amazed at how closethe computer comes to what actually happened. The th200 is about what I expected faster ontake off but about the same in the 1/4 mile. I crossed the" Finish line" in 2nd gear and they are about the same ratio. I am still thinking this over, thought about a th400 with switch the pitch to get the best of both worlds. Maybe someone will have a 3.08 rear end cheap. Iwould do alittle better than the 2.73 that I have. Jay 6155

Wow, my thread really exploded here

I do not know the cam specs off the top of my head. There should be a grind sheet in the trunk at home. I'll try and remember to take a look later. Car was indeed a 3 speed column. Everything but the column shifter looks to be gone. Trans has the B&M shifter kit too. Shifts crisp and firm. I do notice that when i'm at a slow roll (through parking lots, etc) it shifts from 1-2 very low. heck I'll be rolling with my foot on the brake and it wants to shift. Assuming this is the governor? I'd like to adjust that, but no big deal. Car idles around 500rpm in gear, foot on break. Sounds like a tractor.

I have no plans to race this thing. it's made for cruisin' 5 months out of the year. she'll be parked in the barn this winter and for as many as I own it!

Is the kickdown cable hooked up? Jay 6155

Yes 1st make sure the throttle valve cable is hooked up.
Fords don't care but Ive heard that you can damage a Chevy trans if the cable isn't hooked up at all, it sends the wrong pressure signals.

After all is hooked up the Governor will control mainly full throttle shift points, you probably want these about 4000-4400 for a mild 250. Changing governor weights & springs (under the can on drivers side) will change these RPMs. The Gov also has some small effect on part throttle shifts but mainly at full throttle.

The kickdown cable is not hooked up. Working on a bracket to adapt to the 32/36. From my understanding the TV cable isn't needed, only helps downshift if I gun it which i have never done nor see a need to. It's low on my list of things to do with that mindset.

Drove it over the weekend. According to the cheap tach in the car it's shifting around 1100 1st, even lower in the rpm range from 2nd to 3rd. 2-3 seems really quick. Overall no complaints with the trans although it seems to be leaking a bit of fluid when it sits for a week. Few drops, nothing substantial.

You would need the kick down cable hooked up to shift @ a higher RPM.
This is why your trans is shifting too early. You need to hook it up.

A TV cable is mandatory to hook up, but I don't think a TH350 has one.

MBHD

I was unaware it was needed. From my searching I've been led to understand it is only needed for WOT shifting. I guess that'll be this weekends project.

Thanks Hank.

You are probably going to need to mess with the governor weights/springs also to get the correct shift points.

MBHD

Well looking in my T350 book, I think you may be right, the kickdown would ONLY affect full-throttle or near full-throttle shift points. We left our Ford c-6 kickdown unhooked for 30 years, didn't hurt a thing.

So you may be fine, but I'd hook it up and see where your full throttle shifts are. You can always back off early if you or the engine get scared.

They do shift out pretty low just lumbering thru the parking lot, but if you go say halfway down it should shift at 2500-3000. Full throttle shifts probably 4000-4500 since the carb is still kinda small.

That's just it. She drives fine on the road, but just coasting through the lots she wants to shift early. I have no issues with the way it drives at all. I think my tach may be the culprit, I don't trust it at all. Shoddy looking unit if I've ever seen one.

You do not need to have the kick down hooked up to run it.

The tranny will shift better @ W.O.T. if it is hooked up.

It's been a while, but I think it will affect part throttle shifts.

TV cable trans, you much have it hooked up.

MBHD

I believe that Hank is correct. Once the cable starts moving it moves avalve inside the trans tells it how much throttle opening there is. Along with the vacum modulator and the gov. tells the trans when and how hard to shift. On my stock nova the throttle can open about 1/6 of the way before the kickdown cable starts to move. I know how to set it if you need help. Jay

That sounds about right, I forgot about the vacuum modulator, they make adjustable ones (flat blade screwdriver inside adjustment where hose hooks up) to get later or early shifts if needed.
It has been a while since I had worked on one. My TH350 trans in my Camaro has a full manual shift valve body.

MBHD