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#81635 - 07/21/14 09:13 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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You could add one of these if you think your fuel is getting that hot.

http://www.proheader.com/image/pt151.gif

I think running a dead head of fuel pressure is not a good way for a fuel system to work IMO.

I ran a dead head fuel set-up on my Camaro for a bit, because I was too lazy to install a return line.

Forgot, did you advance the cam timing or retard, or the same cam timing since the last build?

MBHD
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#81636 - 07/21/14 10:00 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
strokersix Offline
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Haha! I like your decal \:\)

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#81637 - 07/21/14 10:07 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 460
Loc: Ely, NV
Almost all new cars in the last several years have gone to a dead head system. The end result is cooler fuel, particularly as the fuel tank gets low.

I'm not sure how running the fuel through the rail, picking up engine heat (rails are always hot after extended driving unless your intake is composite material) and back to the surge tank will make it cooler.

Doing some fuel consumption math, at 60mph and 20mpg, a gallon of fuel should be consumed every 20 minutes, a quart every 5 minutes. So the volume of fuel in my lines and surge tank should be far less than a quart. The fuel in the lines should be replaced with cool fuel from the tank every minute or two. It simply shouldn't be enough time to vapor lock, as my fuel consumption should be even quicker since I am driving faster than 60mph and getting 20mpg, and the surge tank fuel should be replaced constantly with unrestricted flow from the gas tank. Yet here I am I suppose... My Skylark returns hot fuel from the rails back to the surge tank just like this set up, and it's surge tank is under the hood, subjected to under hood temps on top of engine heated fuel rail fuel, and it doesn't have this problem. Uses the same high pressure fuel pump and exposed to more heat under the hood.

I have a motorcycle oil cooler on the shelf I eyeballed yesterday and thought about plumbing in, lol. Instead I welded cooling fins to the side of the tank.

**I forgot to answer about the cam. The cam is now set to an honest 4 advanced from stock. I am considering backing it down to stock. This is assuming it was ground correctly, which I forgot to check. D'oh!


Edited by TheSilverBuick (07/21/14 10:11 AM)
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#81638 - 07/21/14 10:13 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: strokersix]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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Loc: Ely, NV
 Originally Posted By: strokersix
Haha! I like your decal \:\)


Thanks! I've only heard grumbling from 1 Pontiac guy that said that Pontiac had a RAM AIR VI V8 engine in development, but it was never released. Funny enough, I thought he was going to be the one that liked the idea the most because he has built several of these OHC engines and helped develop the spec's that are on my turbo cam.
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#82228 - 08/30/14 08:09 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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Still haven't made any changes to the fuel system. I was daily driving it to work until about a week ago when I parked it in the barn because my second vacuum pump started popping fuses.

I ordered a diverter/check valve to weld to the exhaust to try and use an exhaust evac. I won't plumb the exhaust right to the block, I'll run it from the breather point of my catch can to try and keep oil out the exhaust. I'll take some vacuum measurements before switching all the way over, as I'm running a chambered muffler, which make kill it's function. Pass through mufflers apparently still let them work decently.

Then this was brought to my attention. An alternator with a vacuum pump attached to the backside. Though I don't know the volume of the pump or the amperage of the alternator, so more research needs to be done. I'm thinking volume will be too low and the few I've checked were a meager 70amps. I have a 140amp alternator on the car now. Everything running at 800rpm idle still has 12.5+v.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/110962027489?lpid=82

I'm also pulling my 8.5" rear end out of the dirt and into the shop to clean up and install new wheel bearings and seals for the Firebird. It was in my Skylark but it ate an axle when the wheel bearing failed. It has a GM limited slip carrier and 3.42 gears in it. I want the limited slip instead of the current spool. I'll run it a while with the 3.42 gears, but I expect I'll want to soon upgrade back to a 4-series gear.

I'm also going to prep the OE rallye rim for tires and go back to a 14" rim and slightly shorter tire. The front tires rub the inner fender when turning.

I really need to get on the fuel system, a friend of mine is planning on running a chassis dyno day in California in September and invited me to be there. I'd like to dyno this car. I'd install my 1bbl cam into a spare housing and see about swapping them at the event to get a back to back test run of the 4bbl "E" cam to the 1bb "C" cam.
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#82331 - 09/05/14 03:02 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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Since the second electric LT1 smog pump has started to give me fits I figured I need a better solution. So I'm trying out an exhaust evac system. I would of liked to of welded it in at the merge between the two manifold outlets, but given the amount of oil this thing seems to pull I didn't want to risk fouling the O2 sensor, so I put it there. It definitely pulls a vacuum, but it doesn't seem like a very strong vacuum, but does "feel" similar to the electric smog pump, so it should be a break even deal at minimum for now. I may swap out the chambered Flowmaster muffler for a flow through type or glass pack.
[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/h...3e66ba95a8e0a78[/img]

To further pull oil out of the line, I've replaced the breather on my catch can with the evac intake. I may re-install the PCV valve and tee it in after the catch can for an extra vacuum kick.
[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/h...ea97b85d3f7e65b[/img]

****Facebook has jacked with the image URL's, they work if you click on them =/

Now I'm going to go swap out the front shocks and sway bar end link bushings. One of the front shocks has no bushing at all left in the lower mount.


Edited by TheSilverBuick (09/05/14 03:04 PM)
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#82464 - 09/20/14 08:22 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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I've tee'd in a PCV valve, but still wasn't happy with the performance, or rather lack of. I did some WOT blasts and it blew out a rubber plug that is on the oil fill tube and sent plenty of oil out the hole =/

So I'm re-doing the exhaust system and replaced the chambered flowmaster with a glass pack. Mostly because it's a flow through design and that it was $18 at the local parts store.

I have the exhaust system all tucked up under the car but I ran out of time to finish bolting up the collector to the manifold, re-installing the O2 sensor, etc. Minor stuff. Maybe today.

[img]https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...amp;oe=5488417E[/img]

[img]https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...amp;oe=5492B530[/img]

**Facebook still screwing my pictures =/
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#82547 - 10/07/14 06:42 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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Had some success today! Turns out the Mr. Gasket oil cap I got leaked around the crimp "seal" and that was killing the ability to pull any vacuum in the crankcase. So my solution? A quick trip to the hardware store.



Which resulted in plenty of crankcase vacuum! However, it seems to now generate a seal whistle at around 8inHg vacuum. D'oh. I'll figure that out later. It still generates pressure at WOT and low rpm. I haven't tried WOT and high rpm yet. Cruising down the highway at 60mph it was pulling decent vacuum. :thumbs: I have noticed a change to the oil pressure to the lash adjusters though, so I have to give more thought on what to think about that.


As a reminder, I'm taking a reading from the crankcase at the brass fitting under the red tube.



*I think I've figured out how to hack the screwed up FB picture links now.
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#82779 - 10/27/14 08:39 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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I've been having log in problems again =/ And I don't think the pictures will show up, but they can be clicked on.

From Oct. 17th.
Quote:
Last weekend I drove the car to California and who ever called bad fuel pump wins. Despite it being purchased new earlier this year and only having three or so thousand miles on it, it is junk.

Made it 70 miles before it quit on me. Hot wiring the pumps on and looking at the clear filters, it was obvious the feed to the pump had fuel and the low pressure pump was circulating fuel as I expected it to be. Pinching the return line to the gas tank still caused it to pressure up to 43psi, and de-pressurize when I let go. Strange. So I zip tied the known good pump from the Skylark (been on there since 2011 and has probably 25,000+ miles on it (2 Drag Weeks even at 4,000 miles round trip each), and moved the lines over and it fired up and made the next ~1,200 miles without any fueling issues.

[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/h...7943f62ff3d860d[/img]
(Oh, and always remember to put the car in park or set the parking brake! I pulled over there after coasting in neutral. I was under the car and it started to roll backwards on me! Yikes!)

The crankcase vacuum behaved weirdly, it seemed to have a tough time pulling/maintaining vacuum below 3inHg, but as soon as it hits that 3inHg it'd pull up to 6-10inHg fairly quickly and hang onto that vacuum through a variety of driving conditions. What had confused me the most though is, it'd pull nice vacuum climbing a hill, but as soon as I start coasting down the other side the vacuum completely goes away. The intake manifold vacuum (pcv valve) is double digits and it doesn't seem to be able to pull a vacuum on the unloaded or nearly unloaded engine. Just seemed strange. It pulls plenty of crankcase vacuum at idle, yet looses vacuum cresting and going down a hill. Then a friend told me that a pcv valve only passes vaccum at mid-level vacuum, not at high or low vacuum conditions, and suddenly what I had been seeing made sense.

So I stopped by the local Home Depot and picked up a brass fitting with the same dimensions as the PCV valve and swapped it in. Now vacuum in the crankcase mimic's manifold vacuum to a tee (is there a pun in there?). I have not noticed any drivability or idle changes with the swap.

I pull the vacuum through my catch can, so any oil drawn in should drop in the catch can's copper mesh "filter" I have in there, as well as using several baffles in the crank case to try and keep most the oil down. In the mean time though, I'm going to be closely watching my oil level for any changes. In "theory", under vacuum mist should drop out of suspension in the crankcase and overall mass transfer to the catch can should drop as well. I've noticed before, the more often the crankcase stayed under vacuum conditions the less oil and such accumulated in the catch can, the more often it was at atmospheric or pressure conditions the more oil would accumulate in the catch can.

It also takes about 4 seconds after shut down for the crankcase vacuum to bleed off. I may start looking for a high flow check valve and look at possibly attempting making my own vacuum relief valve to keep vacuum below 6-8inHg. It does make me a tad nervous seeing 15+inHg in the crankcase. I keep waiting for it to suck the oil pan gasket in =P

Also the dang electrical plug on the transmission has come loose. I'm not sure what even holds it into place, but it is dripping fluid and has a ton of play in the hole. So I guess I get to drop the trans pan and inspect/replace the plug.

It made the trip like a champ since the fuel pump swap. The oil consumption driving home was even acceptably low. I didn't add any in the 475 mile drive home, which the engine was sitting at basically 3,000rpm for the whole trip.

Heading to Vegas this morning. Traffic was very light, having left my Mom's house at 5:30am.
[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/h...b94d5491b104f4f[/img]

Here are the trip stats. I averaged 19.3mpg.
[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/h...3707b15d50b743c[/img]


The next round of changes after I fix the trans electrical plug is a small update to the exhaust evac setup and then swapping out the rear axle for a 8.5" with a true limited slip differential. For now it's parked in the garage until I have time to fix the trans leak.


And yesterday:
Quote:
I also forgot to mention the trans started shifting soft about the time I noticed it started leaking (or maybe the soft shifting is why I noticed it was leaking?). It wasn't much difference initially, but the drive home and since (I haven't driven it more than 5 miles since I got home from CA) the gear engagement and shifting had gotten quite soft. So I figured when I dropped the pan to change out the plug I may drop the valvebody as well to check it out. It was suggested a check ball may have debris keeping it from sealing, etc. But as soon as I dropped the pan and saw a bolt and washer in it, I figured I probably found the culprit.

Yup, the TCC solenoid was missing one bolt and the other was fairly loose. Guess I forgot to torque them down when I last messed with the valvebody. It was probably hemorrhaging fluid and pressure there. Or at least that is what I am hoping and that by bolting it back up and tightening the bolts the shift firmness comes back. There was a fair amount of black material coating the pan, but the fluid doesn't smell burnt.
[img]https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...amp;oe=54F75F25[/img]

I've ordered a new plug thing to stop the leak (I broke two tabs removing it, it's crunchy) and a filter/gasket set. I think after I get it back together, if it is shifting well I'll swap out the rear axle for the 8.5" with 3.42 gears and a limited slip carrier. I'll probably be looking for a set of 4.56's for the 8.5" soon after =P

I was browsing E-bay and craigslist for a used but good 4L60e (as I was getting pessimistic about the 200-4r) and I may attempt to pick up a used one next time I leave town. We'll see.
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#82866 - 11/02/14 05:07 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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Since I'm on a holding pattern for the transmission I've decided to play around with making a sheet metal intake for the car. Playing with PipeMax, it looks like a 3rd harmonic runner should be about 10", depending on how many rpm the engine is going to be spinning, but 12" seemed like a good middle of the road number. Doing some math, from the throat behind the valve to the where the intake flange bolts to had a taper of 6, so I just propagated that out 10" out from the flange, calculated out the area using the same height to width ratio of .875 so the ports at the end should be about the same dimension, just bigger.

So I started by making a wooden form of the port from a chunk of 4x4. I drew out the area on either end, lined across the sides for the taper then took progressively closer cuts with a sawzall. I was going to get it close and use my belt sander, but after wasting at least 2 hours looking for the damn sander I gave up and continued making closer cuts with the sawzall and then got the idea to stick a paint stripper disc on my 4.5" grinder and that did a pretty good job of removing material slowly and smoothing out the sawzall cuts. I made it a bit smaller than needed for wiggle room to account for the size of the metal.


I used a blue shop towel wrapped around the piece of wood and trimming it to size to make a pattern to cut the metal by since the taper wouldn't be a perfect rectangle.


Then using a series of C-Clamps and vice grips to hold the metal in place on block of wood while I used my work bench to wrap the metal around the block of wood. Some light massaging with a rubber hammer was involved and I managed to even get the seam to be on the bottom of the runner with a light overlap. I then gave it a quick tack weld to hold it together and knocked the wood out the end.


Some tapping and it slide right into the port.


Not overly fancy.


From the flange side.


And will it fit on the engine?? It's about an inch or so long here as the plenum end still needs to be cut and squared up. I'm contemplating ways to get a rounder bell shape on that end, but not 100% sure it's going to happen.



It's pretty thin gauge metal, so I intend to use small lengths of angle iron along the bottom of the runners to support the weight of the eventual plenum. I am going to get steel injector bungs and they will be tacked to the flange to hold them solidly in place.
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#82901 - 11/03/14 06:51 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER Offline
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My suggestions -

Don't use angle iron on the runners. They will be amazingly strong when welded to a plenum. Plus angle iron will just look cah cah.

Do you have a router? Make a hardwood hammerform die with a routed quarter round over bit to shape the entryway. If you want to get really fancy make the runners protrude into the plenum by the distance of the radius.

The plenum should extand past the end runners a bit.
Try to elevate the runners so the airflow does not have to make a right angle turn in the plenum.


This one required five different hammerforms to get the shape I desired:

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#82902 - 11/03/14 07:18 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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What gauge steel are those runners? I'm using 22, which is pretty light weight. Using 1/2" or 3/4" angle iron on the bottoms, or even rearward corner, won't be overly noticeable. Or paint hides lots of things =P I figure I'll be building a second or third one and quite likely using a thicker gauge steel and each runner made from more than a single sheet of steel welded together.

No router and my belt sander is still MIA.

Pending how I make my plenum, I'm planning on making a bell shape of some sort for the runner entrance, IF I can sort out how to get it into the plenum. My original plan is to use a piece of straight pipe for the plenum, and getting the runner's bell into the runner hole would not be possible. I'm contemplating cutting the pipe in half and then figuring out how to seal it when merging the two halves back together, or I could weld it back together.... The plenum pipe, depending on ultimate length is going to huge compared to the engine displacement, 350-400 cubic inches. It has a 4" diameter.

I'm also contemplating making this first intake "attempt" one for the Buick 3.8 supercharger I have. Not 100% sold on that idea yet.



Edited by TheSilverBuick (11/03/14 07:20 PM)
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#82920 - 11/05/14 05:44 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER Offline
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The one pictured above was .060 aluminum. The one pictured here I made using mild steel. I think it was also 22 gage.



Edited by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER (11/05/14 05:45 PM)
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#82922 - 11/05/14 07:54 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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I can see it does strengthen up. I took the pictures below with the tube just sitting on the runners, and the runners are not even welded or anything to the flanges.

I've been experimenting and practicing on hammering a curved entrance to the port. It'll never be perfect, but I'll see what I can do. My airflow friend says a 1/2" radius is as close to ideal as a curve would get for airflow, so it gives me something to shoot for, but I know it'll come up a bit short. I started with the trailer ball hitch (2-5/16") to round out the port, then it seems the easier to use the anvil to start shaping then finish up with a piece of round 3/4" pipe. I will have four more practice pieces before I have to actually try it out on a runner.

Going for a 1/2" radius. IMO, not terrible terrible, but not winning any awards either.


Three runners made up.


And everybody likes a good mock up. The tube is a bit far forward, and up, compared to where I intend on placing it.


I was surprised my cell phone camera flash actually makes it to the end of the port.


Edited by TheSilverBuick (11/05/14 07:55 PM)
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#83101 - 11/17/14 02:26 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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Got the Firebird back on the ground this last weekend. Installed the new transmission case plug and put the pan back on. The dang plug's pins are rotated 180 from the old one, so the one on my wiring harness won't plug in correctly, so now I need a new plug too *sigh*

Plus, it seems the transmission is permanently wounded from the TCC solenoid coming loose. It's all bolted back together, but the gear engagement and shifts are still very soft. Damn. I could probably purchase new friction and steel plates, etc and do another "quickie" rebuild on it this winter, or maybe I'll start searching out a 4L60e.

I also made another intake runner. Two more to go.
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#83467 - 12/07/14 05:49 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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I finally caved and got a photobucket account, so hopefully my photo links start lasting a while. Unfortunately I cannot go back and edit my old posts here where the links are broken =/

This weekend I finished up the last two runners and then trimmed them to equal lengths. Now I can start working on the plenum setup.



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#83468 - 12/08/14 07:25 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER Offline
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Originally Posted By: TheSilverBuick
I
I've been experimenting and practicing on hammering a curved entrance to the port. It'll never be perfect, but I'll see what I can do. My airflow friend says a 1/2" radius is as close to ideal as a curve would get for airflow, so it gives me something to shoot for, but I know it'll come up a bit short.
An easy way to get the entry radii near perfect is to make a hammer forming die. Look at the last runner to the right side of the picture. There is a radius hammerform die made from scrap 1" diameter tubing welded in the shape of the entry window. You can use it to hammer out all the runner entries the same:

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#83469 - 12/08/14 08:14 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
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Hmm, I'll look at trying something like that.


Edited by TheSilverBuick (12/08/14 08:15 AM)
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#83476 - 12/08/14 04:31 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
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If use heat at the same time it will make the hammering a little easier and lessen the chance of ripping the metal. That is what I did when I made my own collectors and collector pipe.
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#83629 - 12/18/14 09:14 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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I've just been driving the car the last two weeks. The transmission is shifting soft since the TCC solenoid came loose in the transmission. I think it toasted the clutches, so I think right after Christmas I'm going to pull the transmission out and pull it apart and stick the clutches I removed from it when I rebuilt it since they looked fairly good and didn't really have too many miles on them.

While I have it down I'll probably swap out the rear end for the 8.5" with 3.42 gears that I have. I'm over having a spool in the car, and the regular limited slip carrier will be nice. After I see what kind of mpg's it pulls I'll probably want a 4-series gear back in it, lol.

New front rotor's are in the mail, so I'm just a proportioning valve away from swapping the front drum brakes out.

Driving it yesterday. The weather here cannot make up its mind.
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#83747 - 12/29/14 10:53 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
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I've just been driving the car all month. Also the transmission has been shifting soft since the TCC solenoid came loose, so I'm guessing I toasted some clutches from pressure loss. Practically drives like a normally shifting transmission now despite the harsh shifting kit/holes I put in it.

After work today or tomorrow I plan on putting the Firebird up on jackstands in the barn to begin the transmission pull to see what is going on inside of it. With that, right before Christmas two front rotors showed up, so I can possibly also switch out to disc brakes while it's up in the air along with swapping out the rear axle for the 8.5" with 3.42 gears and an honest limited slip rear end. While I have the front and rear brakes apart, I'm going to look at adding a hall sensor to read the back side of the wheel studs to use as a vehicle speed sensor. Should only require drilling a hole in the dust shield and adjusting a threaded sensor with two nuts holding it place...

To shift gears a bit, I got a Raspberry Pi mini computer for Christmas and am going to attempt to make a digital display in the Firebird similar to what I have in the Skylark but not yet go to the extreme of replacing the dash cluster. This will be a round one so to speak. If it works out well then I will try to eventually expand to replacing the cluster with a digital display. The primary hangup is my inability to use Linux frown But, figure it's only a matter of time before I figure it out enough.



Goal one is to simply get it to start up and run Tuner Studio, from there I can expand on the idea.
What I am thinking of doing after I get it operational is getting a 7" touchscreen for it (they seem to be less than $75!?!?) and replacing the generic panel with the Arrowhead on it with a touchscreen displaying various engine vitals. Interestingly enough, when I requested quick keys to change the display layout in TunerStudio for the Skylark, the programmer also added screen swiping at that time to change display layouts when using touch screens. So "in theory" I can have various gauges on there, but simply reach over and swipe left or right to have different data show up, or gauges with different warning light thresholds, etc. And being rectangular, means a different layout than I am using in the Skylark smile



The panel is 2.5" by 4.5", but I don't see any issues with fitting a 7" screen back there, which I believe the dimensions are 3.9"x6.2". That would make the screen stick out approximately 3/4" a side in width and just over 3/4" top and bottom. Plenty of wiggle room. Mounting it firmly may require some creative work though.



The goal is to make a squared up version of what is in the Skylark!


So much to do!
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#83753 - 12/29/14 03:37 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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You will probably get the best mileage with the 3:42s

Should be much better than 4:56s' JMO

Spools are OK for track cars, on the street & trying to park it in a parking lot, forget it.


MBHD
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#83764 - 12/30/14 08:38 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
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Yeah, if I'm getting 20mpg with the 4.56's, it should really be getting some mpg's with the 3.42's. But I expect it to not be as fun to drive frown Well, until at least the turbo is bolted on, then the 3.42's will probably be decent grin

I'm over the spool for sure. It will be nice to have an honest limited slip carrier back there.
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#83775 - 12/30/14 10:23 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Just curious what RPM you are turning when you are getting 20 MPG?
Do you have a turbo yet?

MBHD
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#83776 - 12/31/14 07:17 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
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2,700-3,000rpm. 200-4r, lock up converter and 27" tires.

Nope, haven't picked up a turbo yet. Every time I look at them and see all the various variables, I've walked away. But I'm really now getting at the point I need to focus on what I'm looking to accomplish and get a turbo to get there.

Preliminarily, I want a turbo that will support at least 600 flywheel horsepower (doesn't mean I'll quite get there), and looking at running twin-scroll with two 2" feed pipes, maybe 1-7/8". Then trying to decide what size intake piping, 2.5" or 3". I figure with reverse flow cooling, the intercooler, and possible methanol injection of going upwards around 20-24psi on the good short block and professionally ported head, assuming I can keep a head gasket in it.

I have been looking at various intercoolers though, as that will be the foundation of my front end plumbing, because I want to get a new radiator with an electric water pump attached to it, but I need the intercooler size first to make sure I can get inlet/outlet lines around the radiator.

I'm thinking of running a cooling system pressure sensor to watch for the head lifting or see plainly if the head gasket starts to go. I'm pretty sure I can make the MegaSquirt throw a "check engine" light if cooling pressure oscillates too quickly.
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#83785 - 12/31/14 06:06 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
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First project of the new years, pulling the transmission in the Firebird and going through it. I got the room closed up and a load of wood in the wood stove ready to heat the place up in the morning. It was 19F in there when I took the picture, burrr.....



Edited by TheSilverBuick (12/31/14 06:06 PM)
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#83801 - 01/01/15 10:06 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
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Pulled the transmission out and yanked it apart today. As I suspected the friction plates were toast. I haven't seen anything else out of place. I put most the trans back together using the friction plates and steels I pulled out of the transmission when I first rebuilt it back in February or so. I haven't put the valve body back on it yet, as I want to make sure it's cleaned out for sure.



The plates I pulled out of it on the left and the "old" ones I'm re-installing on the right. In another stack the friction plates looked cooked and the steels had hot spots. I believe this to be the result from when my TCC solenoid came loose and about fell out. I'm guessing hydraulic pressure dropped dramatically.
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#83809 - 01/02/15 06:45 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
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I made sure the valve body was definitely cleaned out. I found some directions online from a shift kit that talked about removing a spring from an upshift valve (said some transmissions have it, some do not..), so I removed the spring from mine. I took the opportunity to open up two holes in the valve body plate to the next size up while I had it apart. Now it's just a filter and gasket away from ready to go back in.

Since the transmission is on hold, I pulled the 8.2" axle with 4.56 gears on a spool, for an 8.5" with 3.42 gears and a standard limited slip carrier. Haven't done anything more from this picture though. One of the metal brake lines twisted and broke on removal, so I'll replace both on the axle. I forgot to get some gear oil, so I need to go to the parts store anyways.


I spent the rest of the time looking at relocating the TV cable from the throttle body to the firewall and directly off the gas pedal. Once I heard of some folks doing this I was interested because I'm using a universal cable and its maxed out on length and will only get worse with the intake I'm building. Putting it on the Firewall takes that worry out. I measured the pull of the cable on the transmission, and found the points on the firewall to gas pedal that give the same distance. It's just a notch below where the throttle cable goes.
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#83815 - 01/02/15 08:35 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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I think there is a low dollar thing to do to get a firmer 4th gear shift in a servo spring change?
Might be confusing this w/a 700R4 servo?

Just going from memory.

MBHD
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#83819 - 01/02/15 09:49 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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I've installed the shift improver kit. The 4th gear shift is(was) pretty firm. Though realistically, the quality of the shift into 4th isn't a big deal because it typically doesn't happen when WOT.
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#83824 - 01/03/15 10:37 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Hmmm, w/456 gears I would think WOT shifts in 4th would happen all the time. Unless you did not like to floor it?

On my Syclone, I need to shift into 4th gear in the 1/4 mile, the trans does not like it (700R4) all stock with 3.42 gears & 26" tire.

MBHD
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#83827 - 01/03/15 12:44 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
intergrated j 78 Offline
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X2. A mere 60 mph in direct with the converter locked is 3400 rpm . A 5000 rpm 3-4 up shift would happen at 88 mph IF the converter was locked up, unlocked 3-4 would happen at a lower speed. One thing that has happened to me when I changed to a higher numerical gear ratio in the rear end the car felt slower even though I knew better. Has this happened to anyone else?

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#83834 - 01/03/15 01:46 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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I have not heard of that happening. It would need to be an extreme change for it to slow down.
For a car like yours going from 256 to 355 (forgot your gearing) or so I would think it would be faster.
What rear axle ratio was it before & what is the gear ratio now?

Some engines do like to run sort of tall gearing from the factory, like Ponchos 455's , Oldsmobile, 455's etc.
I think if you were to put 456 gears in those cars, they will be slower in the 1/4,,,, talking stock here.

I have seen my friends car go slower from using a Weiand "X" celerator manifold then switching to a Victor Jr SBC. .5 second difference in the 1/4. shocked

A loose/slushy torque converter usually will loose MPH, but could ET better.
The less slippage the better MPH

MBHD
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#83842 - 01/03/15 04:36 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
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I shift the car at 5,500rpm and haven't had it above 90mph in 3rd gear. I am curious about it's 1/4 mile time and mph.

However sticking the 3.42 gear in it will diminish that quite a bit, until I get tired of the 3.42s and stick a 4-series gear back in it, lol.

One of the reasons I like the 4.56 gears is because this car feels like a rocket ship driving it, like it could "almost" keep up with my 455 powered Skylark, but in reality it has zero ability to keep up the the Skylark. The Skylark has 3.89 gears, but I've ran it as low as 3.08's, and I did like the 3.42's in it, but it left a lot of ET on the table with the 3.42's because the rpm drop and crossing the 1/4 mile finish line at 4,800rpm in 4th instead of 5,800-6,000 rpm, basically waaaay under the max power band with the 3.42's. For 1/8 or 1/4 mile racing, always optimize the gear for the mph you expect to run to the red line of the engine. Automatics with good stall converters work the best, but I like rowing my own gears.
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#83870 - 01/04/15 06:16 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Just curious if that engine is actually making power to 5500 RPM?

I know GM says it made power to a certain RPM, but I do not think they made it at that kind of RPM, could be wrong, but I think the camshaft specs are kinda anemic. JMO

MBHD
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#83893 - 01/05/15 06:39 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
intergrated j 78 Offline
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I think that I need to clarify what I said in my last post. The car in question was a BBC Chevelle that I had decades ago. I changed gears from 3.31 to 3.73 and the car "felt" slower, even though I knew that it was quicker in the 1/4 mile,ect. Less of a feeling of being pushed back in the seat. Just wondered if this happened to anyone else. I'd be real curious how the Firebird feels with the new gears. Jay6155

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#83896 - 01/05/15 06:58 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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I would think going from 4:56's to 3:42's in his Firebird is going to make it slower with his current engine combo. But whenever he puts a turbo on it, it should be faster/quicker in the 1/4 w/3:42's.

I have 4:10's in my car right now eek & I will most likely use that until I change out my rear end.

Don't have the funds to get the rear end I want to put in it.

I think if I can get the car to hook up w/4:10's, it could be faster in the 1/8 mile, but would run out of RPM in the 1/4 mile I would think. I am speaking about when I get my turbocharged combo going.

MBHD
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#83904 - 01/06/15 07:38 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
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I'll do a few 0-60 time tests with the 3.42's and see how it does with the 3.42's. It was just over 11 seconds with the 4.56's and right at the top of second gear.

I don't know what you expect to run in the 1/4 mph wise, but I figure the most this car will trap N/A mph wise is 95mph, which is 5,600 rpm in 3rd gear. Of course if the car is lighter than I think it could be faster. I'll probably get a set of used 4.11 gears for the 8.5" to run until the "built" turbo engine is installed and making real horsepower.

But until it runs down the 1/4 or is dyno'd, the power is speculative.
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#83909 - 01/06/15 04:49 PM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Those Gtech's & smart phone apps for estimating HP, 60 ft 1/8, 1/4 mile HP etc are pretty good.

I have a Belltronics Vector FX2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqaOOD8U5tE & it is pretty accurate. Timed my car on the street then went to a track & was pretty much dead on.

MBHD
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#83912 - 01/07/15 07:12 AM Re: Hacking together EFI on an Pontiac OHC Six [Re: TheSilverBuick]
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The 0-60 time I based on the datalogs and rpm at which the car should of been going 60mph(which I forgot to mention, the 0-60 times were above 6,000 feet elevation). I took some account for converter slip, but that shouldn't dramatically change the time, maybe a tenth of a second or so giving the rate of rpm climb in 2nd gear.

This weekend I'm going to see about fitting one of the wheels with a vehicle speed sensor. From that I should be able to accurately determine 0-60 and possibly even 1/8 and 1/4 mile times as there are distance calculators in the MegaSquirt software and datalogging software. Getting the VSS hooked up on my Skylark I've just started to delve into those functions of MegaSquirt. There are built in formula's to determine wind and rolling resistance as well as HP and TQ (as well as tripometer and mpg instant and average calculations), but again, I haven't spent the time yet to see how those features are set up and function.


Edited by TheSilverBuick (01/07/15 07:13 AM)
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