Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance am putting together a 292 and have a bunch of ?s

I am new to the chev 6 world as have aquired a 6 cyl 292 block and head to be used in a front engine dragster weighing approx 1500 lbs. the engine had been opended up to accept sealed power 366 pistons that have been milled to 0 deck plus the head has big valves and the lump ports installed.Big compression as far as i can tell cam is unknown but does not look stock the engine did not come with any extra pieces. no water pump thermostat housing dipstick flex plate,balancer etc.
I have some questions for those who may know
I am in the process of building a deep oilpan for the car. i have a 350 deep pan that i am grafting to the original oil pan and an going to deepen it 2 inches what would be a good oil level to run in the pan should I run factory oil level and have extra capacity or lower it to keep oil away from the crank?
will a small block chevedipstick tube kit fit the tube hole ?
I have a 168 tooth small block flex plate and i dont have a pattern how does one modofy it to fit the extra dowels ?does anyone have a pattern on line
what should i do re a harmonic balancer should i go stock or aftermarket as i think the 366 pistons may be a lot heavier than the stock ones but i am not shure. going to run 5000 - 5500 rpm for a redline
will 250 pulleys work the 292 pump and balancer .
Its a lot of questions but its things that i really dont know for these engines
i may make my own thermostat housing assy as i am running a small alum rand on the car and i can then point the outlet wherever i want to get to the rad and not run a thermostat .
I am going to put a powerglide behind the engine and 342 gears with a 3500 stall convertor and see how it goes once i find all the pieces i need.
Any help would be very much appreciated

Your first step should be to get a copy of Leo Santucci's Power Manual for the Inline Chevrolet 6 available through the inliner club stuff page. Just about everyone of your quesations will be answered with pictures and text. Welcome to the board.

thanks for the welcome, the book is ordered just not here yet

Don't expect 3,500 stall with a 292 from that converter.

Dont think it will stall that high ??

Those 366 pistons are going to be rod breakers, they are a whole lot heavier than the OEM 292 pistons along with the BBC wrist pins, and will cause problems when trying to turn RPM. You are also going to have to machine the small end bores to allow the BBC pins to fit, which coupled with the huge weight difference is going to over stress the rods severely. Even the stock 366 rods are much more beefier than the standard BBC rods to handle the extra rotating mass, and the standard BBC rod is way more stout than the 292 rod. This along with the high compression you will end up with is a bad idea. You dont want this combo sitting out in front of you in a front engine dragster....

what would a 292 piston weigh found rossi pistons on line 542 grams ??

The Ross pistons are much more acceptable at that weight and a much better choice, the 366 pistons are over 1000 grams...way too heavy to consider for your needs.

Dont think it will stall that high ??

Not unless your engine has the same torque at 3,500 as the 350" V8 used as the reference.

your right weighed a spare piston pretty heavy 724 g without the pin and 877 with the pin sealed power pistons. still not over 1000 g but getting close. does anyone have a stock piston weight for comparison. its together now what would a safe rpm limit be for this engine.
please dont tell me 2500 rpm ?? its already together

I would be afraid of 2500....sorry, you just made a bad choice!

I'd be a bit more optimistic. IDK the original piston weight, but let's say the 366 is 1/3 heavier (658 gm?).
If the stock piston with the stock rod was safe to 5,000, the heavy piston should make 4,330 at the same stress level.

I always thought the 292 piston was pretty heavy to start with, I cannot find a stock weight anywhere

Piston speed is also a consideration, at over 6000 FPM at just 5000 RPM, this is well beyond the level that cast pistons can safely tolerate for long if at all, much less with almost 12-1 compression. So if the piston weight were the only difference then I could see panics point, but with the added compression stressing the rods along with having .060 removed from the S/E bore compromising the rods strength further...you don't want to be in the drivers seat when it comes apart. The safety factor is what is concerning me more than anything. Just because these parts can be made to fit together, doesn't mean they should.

They are, but you don't turn them 5000 RPM and expect the same results as you would a small block. Also, people dont race these engines with that heavy stuff in them.

I know it's probably just a bandaid, but how much weight do you think you could carve off those pistons?

I know some of the old "stock" class drag engines used what started out as stock pistons, but had a bunch removed from them (I've heard as much as 2/3 of their orriginal mass being carved off).

Lightening the pistons, AND running a thinner wall (or tapered bore) wrist pin is bound to help, but I would lighten the pistons first.

Piston speed is also a consideration, at over 6000 FPM at just 5000 RPM

3,433 f/m

Ok, the formula I found had a variable missing for piston speed. So with the piston speed factor removed from this topic, its still a grenade with the pin pulled otherwise!

it's more effective to lighten the wrist pin and/or rods, than the pistons. You would have to remove a lot more aluminum than steel, to get the same weight reduction. Not saying you should not lighten the pistons, just don't ignore the pins and rods. The pins are inside the pistons, right where you want to lighten the assembly.

Unless you know exactly what you're doing, removing material from a pin can have fatal results.
Pistons generally have more "fat" (unnecessary material) on them than rod small ends.

Just thought I would post this
I have been running the motor now into my second year.
The convertor stalls at 4000 rpm the car has a best et of 12.8 at 106 and runs consistent 12.9 s with a powerglide and trans brake. 650 double pumper alcohol needle and seats with a stock fuel pump running on av gas 3.42 rear gear
hasn't gone through the pan yet runs good but makes heat as the rad is pretty small.

12.80s in a 1700 lb car means you are putting down about 150 hp at the rear wheels. What RPM are you shifting into "hi" at?

I am shifting at 5000 it goes through the lights at about 4800 rpm
and it would be closer to 1800 than 1700 lbs with my fat butt in it.

canadainal,
got any pics or videos of your ride?

MBHD

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/h...a858ecf53fc995e

Here is a pic of the car

542 grams Ross Forged 292 Piston
From an old ad Tom had, I just did Bing on "292 piston"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/292-Chevy-Forged-pistons-040-/280830089780

Probably lighter than stock but maybe close as they use stock rods.

Guessing that's about a 600 Holley and headers on your car, did you ever figure out the cam specs?

Cool pic anyway.

I would think even a stock 292 is good to 5000, is this not true?

Never did get the specs but it idles quite nicely its a smith cam
650 dp on it homemade header

here is a pic of the other side

I like

Just another post my big piston 6 is still running well and broke in running consistent 12.2s and as low as high 11s this season took a bit of fuel out and gained a bit. Low as 1.59 60 fts
have gone through 1 rocker arm and pushrod but nothing else
may even change the plugs this year LOL

Nice. If you are still shifting at 5000 I'd try a smaller carb. 480? 390?

Nice. If you are still shifting at 5000 I'd try a smaller carb. 480? 390? Our 300 cid pickup is running 11.9s with two tiny 2Vs totaling an equivalent 4V flow of 340 cfm @ 1.5"hg.

Crap smaller carb i was looking at bigger it might just be me but it seems to pull hard to the 1/8 but not so great after that through the big end of the quarter the rpms are up the fuel it there but it just seems to lay down a bit.

But do you really have just 1.5" of vacuum pulled at WOT? As manifold vacuum rises the 'real' CFM flowing through the carb goes above the bench mark rating . . . no?

I always thought 2 barrels were rated differently for cfms than 4 barrels ??

Yes traditional CFM ratings were based on higher 3" vacuum signal. When 4v carbs hit the market they were rated at 1.5" of vacuum - which is a less restricted flow rating and indicates the flow with secondaries open.

But one can translate between the two systems:
The Carburetor Shop
"To convert from one system to another (with a very small percentage of error) is relatively simple. Simply use the square root of 2 (1.414). Thus to convert a two-barrel rating into a four-barrel rating, divide the two-barrel rating by 1.414. To convert the four-barrel rating to a two-barrel rating, multiply the four-barrel rating by 1.414"

I would be really surprised if there was even 1.5" at 5000. And that is the problem with overcarbureting. If your carb is too big the intake depression will be too low to create a good signal in the venturiis, leading to lean and erratic fuel delivery. You could bolt a toilet to the intake that would flow huge CFM, but the intake vacuum would be nil (and resultant velocity too slow) causing the car to fall on its face.

One of the biggest reasons EFI will produce more power than a carb is EFI does not need any intake Delta P to work. The high pressure in the fuel rail "squirts" the correct amount of fuel in the cylinder. No venturii restriction in the intake is necessary for proper function.

I hope that Newtonian Physics hasn't changed as much in the last 50 years as many other academic disciplines.

The two leading systems for producing powerful yet economical fuel{air mixtures for 4-sroke ICEs are Mass/flow and Speed/density.

Mass/flows divert a very small percentage of total air through a hot-wire mass meter. This "diversion" is mostly the venturi action of the meter itself measuring only the "small %". (The losses are only those associated with the mass meter.)

The Speed/density system "measures" the airflow speed through the butterfly(s) by their position and then uses plenum air temp and absolute pressure to calculate the real amount at an STP. Losses again are a small fraction of the total.

The problem of sampling sensitivity and accuracy still exist for both systems. Its the old speedo gig, accurate to +-X% of full scale, for all readings from 1mph to full scale mph.

When it comes to transporting the scaled up accuracies the Spd/Dena systems have the edge, kalvin