Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected What would you do

Ok, so I can't make my mind up just yet and I am hoping that posting it here might give me the push...
I have about $1200 to spend on my car right now.
I have a few ideas and need a push...
I can buy a TIG welder so that I can build my turbo system, ie; intake piping, exhaust j pipe and such. If I buy the welder, I will have money to buy the tube but no waste gate. I already have the turbo.
Or, I can buy a fully done head and put on my offy intake and 292 exhaust manifold. That would be all of it!
Or, I can out the intake and exhaust manifolds on and do some stuff to the car, like recover the seats and put in carpet.
Or, I can do the intake, exhaust, and buy a cam. Save the rest for the turbo. R
I'm really not sure which way to go right now.
So, what would you do in my position?

Do you have any drawings or dimensions for your intake and exhaust piping you need welded? I could fab it for you for little of nothing, then you can spend the money you were going too on the welder for something more critical.

Thanks for the offer!
I have no plans as of yet!
I should have perhaps explained a bit more...
I have been wanting to buy a TIG for the house for some time and recently came across a good deal. If I get it, I can build my system, but also will be able to do more projects.

I forgot to mention that I do have a 200R4 transmission that is going in regardless of which route I take.

I know what you mean, I have (2) Lincoln Tig welders myself and a Lincoln Mig and 2 plasma cutters. They are very handy to have around.

I WAS building chassis' until last year... I got laid off. Not I don't have any of the tools and I really do miss doing it. That was my dream job!

What would be the better move of these two...
a fully done head for my 194 (I have a 250 waiting to be built, but I am not going to start it until I can afford the whole build).
OR, adding my turbo to the stock 194 @ 7psi?
I would like to get back into racing, but can't afford it. So I am looking for more gain but reliable gain.

After going from a semi stock 8.75:1 built 250 engine, then going to a 10:1, different 2 barrels, & different 4 barrel carbs.
Then switching to a 12:1, 3 side draft 48 MM DCOE Weber carbs, then going back to a 8.4:1 Paxton supercharged blowing through the same 48 MM DCOE carbs, I have to say I would never go back to a N/A engine, that is why I will eventually get my 250 EFI turbocharged engine going.

The 12.0:1 side draft Weber carbed engine was really fun, but the Paxton made a ton of more power & just kept on revving & revving, & that was only making 8-10 PSI tops in the boost dept.

I say turbocharge it!, even w/a stock headed engine, a turbo will make so much more torque than almost any N/A engine will ever make.

Boost is that addicting.

Lets say you build a 194 head, lumps installed nice camshaft, nice 4 bbl set-up, stock bottom end (if I am reading you correctly?), I will say it will be a disappointment as compared to a semi stock 194 engine & running 7 PSI turbocharged engine.

MBHD

That is correct, more or less, Hank!
I would have my 250 head done wwith larger valves, full port and lumps. Prolly with roller rockers.

7psi on a stock engine is that much fun?

I have a three stud exhaust manifold for a 250... is that the 292 2.5" manifold? I've not measured it. If it is, I will be installing that as well.

Well stop posting and get crackin' already! :p

Seriously, though, if I were building this from the get-go and didn't have the money to dump into it I would stick to N/A until I had enough extra funds around to buy another engine in case I blew the old one with a non-tuned turbo build without a blow off valve...

It sounds to me that money might be too tight at the moment to do this. Perhaps wait until you get a tax refund or something and do it right? Just a few more dollars and you'll be able to build it safely.

If I don't buy the welder, I will have every penny to throw at the turbo.
$1200 should go a fair way. Shouldn't it?
Just means tack welding the piping and paying someone to tig it.

I was looking at wastegates this morning. I can't spend $400 on one, but am a little leary of the $80 ones.

What am I looking at for my draw through system... piping, meth injection, wastegate. Am I missing something to fit the budget?

For $1200 you could do a 4200 swap and have a 275/290 HP engine with no mods to it.

Keep the existing iron 6 for a later restoration/return to stock.

Best method is to get a rolled trailblazer/envoy and pull the the parts yourself.

If you want more power - turbo it == 400/450hp easy.

Snowman & Boucher, did a low dollar turbo install.

I think Boucher ran as high as 10 psi & Snowman ran as high as 15 PSi on stock long blocks.

Even @ 7 psi, you will be able to feel the torque & would be satisfied w/the power output until you were to build your good engine.
You just need to keep it from detonating.

What car do you have, an early Nova?

MBHD

65 Nova

I keep reading snowman build. I have to read it again.

efi- I don't think I would get too far with that swap.i need to do more than just the engine... the rad and exhaust would put me up there.

If you had a complete donor - use the exhaust out of it - take a bit of fab but doable.. the 250 rad is fine for a stock 4200 ..might have to get creative with the hoses but otherwise good to go. The 4200 does not hod much coolant and does not need a massive rad to cool it.

Marc, I don't think many are grasping that this 290-300 HP with the stock exhaust manifold. Other than your rear sump oil pan there is very little else needed to make the swap.

Scott,

Agreed.

Other than the donor, & oil pan the only other item is to get the efi harness converted to stand alone use. The stock head pipe can be reused, as can the rest of the exhaust up to and including the muffler. The tail pipe might be usable with mod's.
The stock engine mounts can be adapted to the new home if the person has a MIG and can weld.

If the donor is 2wd reuse the 4l60e - the driveshaft from a PG/th350 can be shortened - locally this is about $70.

I don't think you guys get that most want to keep the original style engine in there & not do custom everything just to fit a 4200 engine in place of the original engine.

How about the cross member, a 4200 & 4L60E trans bolts right onto a stock cross member? If so, what cars will bolt right in?
Nova ,Camaros, etc.

Need to change the fuel system, have a return line?

What tuning software is needed to tune? EFI fuel pump.

How much for the software, or for someone to program it?

How much boost pressure can the stock intake manifold before it comes apart?.

The LS intake plastic manifolds come apart after little boost pressure is applied.

Is the stock exhaust manifold a good design to add a turbocharger?

If not, how much is a turbo exhaust manifold?
MBHD

Yeah, this swap does require some assembly for sure, but not beyond the average guys abilities. After seeing that Leo's made 1150 HP with a mild tune, I am almost ready to try one in my car before the 12 Port stuff. With that kind of potential available with the Atlas engine, I may be having a "fire sale" before long.

The little things are always what kills a project.
If all I wanted was power, I'm more than happy to put the 6L I have available into the car.
Or the plethera of small blocks available.
I'd like to keep the original inline 6. But if it is not practical, I would love to do the 4.2 swap
It is this things like having the harness modified, changing the fuel system, the radiator that are going to pass the money available.

Along with power you will also see an increase in mileage (thats is if you can keep your foot out of it).

Harness strip with a good tune is $499 US, fuel pump etc can be had out of the wreckers, fuel line/pressure reg. add $200. The stock rad is fine. The two hardest parts is adapting the engine mounts and installing the fuel system.

I guess what we are getting at here is this, if your building a 250 for power its going to be equal $$ to doing the swap. I know as I did originally build a 292, I which I had spent that money buying the 4200 in the first place but at that time very few people had done anything with the 4200.

See below

SNIP

How about the cross member, a 4200 & 4L60E trans bolts right onto a stock cross member? If so, what cars will bolt right in?
Nova ,Camaros, etc.

A 4l60 will bolt in where a th350 was.. just slot the hole ~ 1/2" reuse the OEM trans mount. Google 4l60e swaps 1000's have been done.

Need to change the fuel system, have a return line?

The system needs a fuel pressure reg and a return line with an EFI pump.

What tuning software is needed to tune? None for a stock engine. When Jeremy strips the harness - he does a "emission delete + a mild tune" its all included in the harness price.

How much for the software, or for someone to program it? See above

How much boost pressure can the stock intake manifold before it comes apart?. I have ran 10 PSI no problem, the I5 (3500/3700 colorado) guys have run 30 psi.

The LS intake plastic manifolds come apart after little boost pressure is applied.

Is the stock exhaust manifold a good design to add a turbocharger? Yes 95% of the turbo installs are using a U up pipe and the stock exhaust manifold.

If not, how much is a turbo exhaust manifold? < not required unless your going after huge power.

Tell you guys what, if you could provide a list of the necessary parts (with PN and price?) And it comes in around $1500... I would seriously consider it!
I don't have time to waste messing around sourcing parts that might work. I need to know the parts will work up front.
I know these engines are a good thing, much like the LS to the small block! I just don't have a whole lot of time to spend on shuck-n-jive!
You must also keep in mind that I live in Canada, and our prices can be considerably higher than in the states.

OK, so your saying there are 1000's of 4200 installs w/a 4200 in Camaros & Novas or other vehicles.
Are there engine mounts for these 4200 engine installs like they have for LS engines to fit in Camaros, Chevelles Novas etc?
I did not see them for what all needs to be done, how far forward or aft the engine needs to be located. Or in general, where to position a 4200 engine into an engine bay, have not seen references.

Maybe when there is a lot of aftermarket support for these items needed to install 4200 engines, there would be a lot more installs.

I do not know all the details of Leos 4200, but I do not think it is stock internals?

Don't get me wrong about the 4200 engine, it is a great platform to start with.
It is not just a bolt in deal & away you go.
The LS platform is already figured out & the aftermarket support is there for almost any car/truck install new or old & different manufactures, like installing LS engines into Ford Mustangs & others.

The 1995-96 Toyota Supra engines inline 6's are a great engine also.
I have read you can bolt on parts, turbos, camshafts, injectors etc, on a stock longblock & they can stay together making 800 RWHP. Probably more now, have not followed them recently, just remember this statement about 10-15 years ago.

What can a 4200 engine handle w/stock internals?

MBHD

No I said there are 1000's of 700r4's that have been swapped into gm cars... gee.

"A 4l60 will bolt in where a th350 was.. just slot the hole ~ 1/2" reuse the OEM trans mount. Google 4l60e swaps 1000's have been done."

" OK, so your saying there are 1000's of 4200 installs w/a 4200 in Camaros & Novas or other vehicles."

I didn't say that..

"Are there engine mounts for these 4200 engine installs like they have for LS engines to fit in Camaros, Chevelles Novas etc?
I did not see them for what all needs to be done, how far forward or aft the engine needs to be located. Or in general, where to position a 4200 engine into an engine bay, have not seen references."

The engine mounts need to be fabricated.

Suggested method

Ensure the vehicle is level side to side - use the top of the frame rails.

Measure and record the centerline of the iron 6 to a marked point on the frame rail. Write it down.

Then
- slot the transmission mount 1/2" rearward - install the engine and transmission bolted together into the chassis, bolt the transmission to the cross member. Center the front of the 4200 to the same sideways position as the iron 6.

Remove the intake and cam cover - put a level across the front of the engine - level it side to side.

mock up the frame side mounts - the stock 4200 isolators have a single vertical bolt/stud on the bottom - most installs will use an L bracket. Fab a mount out of wood to check the design then duplicate in steel.



"Maybe when there is a lot of aftermarket support for these items needed to install 4200 engines, there would be a lot more installs."

Chicken and egg situation ...

"I do not know all the details of Leos 4200, but I do not think it is stock internals?"

Nope its well built internally.

"Don't get me wrong about the 4200 engine, it is a great platform to start with.
It is not just a bolt in deal & away you go.
The LS platform is already figured out & the aftermarket support is there for almost any car/truck install new or old & different manufactures, like installing LS engines into Ford Mustangs & others.

The 1995-96 Toyota Supra engines inline 6's are a great engine also.
I have read you can bolt on parts, turbos, camshafts, injectors etc, on a stock longblock & they can stay together making 800 RWHP. Probably more now, have not followed them recently, just remember this state about 10-15 years ago."

No comment

What can a 4200 engine handle w/stock internals? Denny's run his to 475+ RWHP on stock internals.

I think most folks on this site want to keep the old style inlines because they're not new. It's like collecting antiques. But with motors.

Could I have swapped out my 250 for a 350 for the same amount as I have in my 250? Yes. Why didn't I? Because the engine came with the car and every car show I go to my car is the one everyone gathers around. Not the blown LS 68 next to mine. My little inline. It'll be doubly so now that I have a bit more chrome, 3 more barrels, and an extra inch diameter exhaust.

Why bother swapping engines at all when you can just go out and buy a new Camaro with 400+ hp off the showroom floor? Why stop there? There's a couple of supercars now with over 1,000 hp and a warranty! Heck why even stick with wheels at all! Let's just all buy jets! They're even faster! Heck why even stop there! Just buy a rocket and go into orbit!

To each his own but I'm sticking with period correct stuff on my little 68 granny car. I'm happy with the unique sound and feel of the old inline.

Yup. I get that when I roll one of my inlines into the Super Pro staging lanes, often surrounded by mega-dollar 600+ ci seven second REDs.

Half the onlookers are amazed. The other half wonder "What's HE doing there?"

You should have seen the looks on the other guys' faces when I won first place at the Camaro Nationals last year for mild modified. In my 6-banger.

The other guys tripled my horsepower at least.

I get the same when i take the 4200 turboed truck to the cruise nights.. except the question is what is it...

Last time I took the truck to the drags - everyone ignored it until I ran a 11.60 with it then they payed attention...

To each there own, however, if your going after power your 150 ish HP ahead of the game with the 4200. Its not hard to make 450hp with the 4200... not that long ago 450 HP was a BBC or a really stout sbc.

I too like the old motors. Don't get me wrong, the 4200 is a great engine and probably goes like hell in something lighter than a trailblazer. To the OPs question I think I would buy the welder because he is a builder. Jay 6155

[quote=efi-diy I get the same when i take the 4200 turboed truck to the cruise nights.. except the question is what is it...

Last time I took the truck to the drags - everyone ignored it until I ran a 11.60 with it then they payed attention...

[/quote]

Got some videos of your runs or post some time slips.

We need more vids & time slip posts here on the BB.

MBHD

My favorite video of efi-diy's 4.2/GMC pickup is the early one of it trying to break loose from the chassis dyno.