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Perfect! You make a Texas transplant proudER! 
"I wonder if God created man because he was disappointed in the monkey?" Mark Twain
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Your PCV is hooked under just the one throttle body. If this was a progressive linkage system, it would be the best way, however with a 1-1 throttle, you will lean out the back barrels during idle and low speed cruise. The PCV acts as a vacumm leak. Your injection will have difficulty compensating for that as it will hunt back and forth recognising lean, and then rich as the front will fatten up as well, unless the injection system is set-up as two 'complete' individual systems.
An easy fix is to to split the PCV between the two throttle bodies and have it enter under each.
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Interesting idea, but I don't think it will be a problem. According to the Filter Manufacturers Council Technical Service Bulletin #94-2R1.
"Blow-by gases and vapor should be removed at about the same rate they enter
the crankcase. Since blow-by is minimal at idle and increases during high speed
operation, the PCV valve must control the flow of vapor accordingly. The PCV
valve is designed to compensate for the engine ventilation needs at varying
engine speeds. It is operated by manifold vacuum which increases or decreases
as engine speeds change.
For example, at low or idle engine speeds manifold vacuum is high. This pulls the
plunger to the extreme forward position, or manifold end of the valve. Due to the
shape of the plunger, vapor flow is reduced to a minimum. The low rate of the
flow is adequate for ventilation purposes and will not upset the fuel/air mixture
ratio."
Also the air is mixed with fuel and oil vapors in the crankcase which are combustible. It's not like introducing raw air to the manifold.
If it does prove to be a problem the fix is very simple as you suggested.
Thanks for your input.
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Might you show us a factory system that vents anywhere except under the primary intake source?
I believe you've taken a generic statement and assumed that it'll remain true in multiple intake system. What they said was true about the effect when you introduce the PVC leak under the primary intake source as it can be compensated for through a slight richening of the carb or injection at idle. It is true that less goes through at idle, but as very little air flows through a closed throttle at idle, it takes very little to change the air/fuel ratio.
Take a look at a '60s Chev 8. The PCV valve is located at the back of the passenger side valve cover. The line is run forward and tied into the carb under the primary barrels. Why make it so complicated if it doesn't matter? Take a look at "factory" multiple carb systems and see where the PCV is tied in. Look at a 194/230/250 intake and see how they've gone to the trouble of runing the PCV tube through the intake manifold and up under the carb to that the PCV leak ends up mixed with the incoming A/F mixture equally so as to not lean out a few cylinders. If the tube wasn't there, and the PCV leak just entered in line with 3-4 cylinders, you'd have to run 1,2,5 and six rich to avoid the lean misfire in 3&4. I wasn't trying to be a smart a$$ or putting down your work, but trying to help you avoid having 3 rich cylinders at idle and cruise.
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Greybeard, I take no offense at your suggestions nor do I mean to offend you with mine. I hope we are just having a friendly exchange of ideas.
Ron
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diceman,
it is coming together nicely!
what ecm are you going to use and is it programmable by you? tom
Inliner Member 1716 65 Chevelle Wagon and 41 Hudson Pickup Information and parts www.12bolt.com
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Thanks! With the help of a good friend my system will be run with a GM TPI ECM out of a 92 Camaro. He has the ability to log and modify the fuel and spark tables and burn a custom chip for me. It may take some time to get it tuned properly, but it should be worth it. The main goals of this project are to make it very reliable and easy to service. I am trying to use all OEM components so I can go into the local auto parts and get anything I need including a new ECM. The only custom part will be the PROM in the ECM and I will always carry a spare copy.
Last edited by diceman; 08/12/09 01:22 AM.
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This is really an interesting project. High tech junk yard rodding.
"I wonder if God created man because he was disappointed in the monkey?" Mark Twain
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I like that simple and to the point. :^)
LG
Ignorance can be fixed Stupidity is forever
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Sorry it has been so long since my last post. I have been very busy at work plus racing Jr Dragsters with my son and grand daughter. There has been much progress on the project. Some good and some bad. Unfortunately I have not had time to post about it. The truck is running and we have logged about 300 miles on it while experimenting with different computers and tunes. We have learned a lot about idle air strategy. We have also tried both TPI and TBI computers. We are going to proceed with the TPI unit out of a 92 Camaro. We have a good basic tune that starts and runs very well. Once we get the permanent wiring harness done we are going to install a wide band oxygen sensor so we can fine tune for power and fuel economy. We have been running with a temporary harness so we could switch out the computer easily. The torque converter circuit in the computer controls the Gear Vendors overdrive flawlessly. We have it setup to engage at 60 MPH and drop out at 45 MPH. My friend Greg who is doing all the computer programming even programmed a passing gear into it. Once we get the EFI dialed in I am going to install a McCullough supercharger on it.
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Sounds good! Your son and grand daughter aren't always going to fit in Jr dragsters. Do it while you can! Tom
"I wonder if God created man because he was disappointed in the monkey?" Mark Twain
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What he said.
Look forward to the update whenever you get around to it.
My, what a steep learning curve. Erik II#5155
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Just got through testing one of the wildest idea's I have ever had and it works great. While road testing and tuning the EFI system on my truck we experienced a cold weather drivability issue. We made several changes to the tune and every time we backed out of the garage and took off it was fine, but within a 1/2 mile or so the problem would return. We decided to return to a tune that we had used on an earlier test session that had worked fine. Same results. This was a particularly cold night and we finally decided that the intake manifold was too cold. What was happening is when we pulled into the heated garage to program a new computer chip the intake would heat soak from the engine block so when we fired up for another test drive it would run fine until the manifold chilled down again. It seems I had underestimated the importance of manifold heat. I am using an Edmunds manifold that has a steel tube cast into it for running engine coolant through to heat the manifold. Since I am using that cavity to run my idle air supply through that is no longer an option. Then I had this crazy idea that I could use some diesel engine glow plugs to heat the manifold. It works! Please excuse the wiring. It is only temporary. Also, I am going to use glow plugs with a threaded stud to attach the wire. That should make it a little less obvious. http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/diceman50/Hank%20fuel%20injection/DSCF0188.jpghttp://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/diceman50/Hank%20fuel%20injection/DSCF0181.jpg
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I would be cautious with the glowplugs and fuel. I have bench tested them. They get hot enough to start a fire, after all, that is their job. Hate to see a fire start in the intake. Talk about pre ignition!
You may be better off to still try and use the hot water method in some other fashion.
Another thing, those glowplugs take alot of current. Tom
Inliner Member 1716 65 Chevelle Wagon and 41 Hudson Pickup Information and parts www.12bolt.com
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They are not inside the plenum of the intake manifold. There is no fuel on or near them.
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Now that makes more sense! They will still take alot of current. Too bad you can't use some of the wasted water heat or the exh. Tom
Inliner Member 1716 65 Chevelle Wagon and 41 Hudson Pickup Information and parts www.12bolt.com
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Glad to hear that it seems to work.  Do you plan to run it through a timer or a dropping resistor? I know of at least one vehicle (diesel) that uses a dropping resistor to run the plugs at lower power durring warmup. I would expect durability issues with the plugs themselves if you ran them full current continuously (it's why I ask).
My, what a steep learning curve. Erik II#5155
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The glow plugs are 10 amps each. I too had doubts about durability so I did a bench test. We are going to use the Air Injection Reactor circuit to control them. They will only be on when the coolant temp is below 160 degrees or the inlet air temp is below 80 degrees. Where I live that should not be very often. When they are mounted in the manifold they have a constant supply of fresh air for the idle air system flowing over the element. The manifold also acts as a large heat sink. A much friendlier environment than they were designed for. I simulated the situation with an aluminum tube and my air compressor. I ran them continuously for 4 hours with no issues. If long term durability becomes an problem I will try some 24 volt units. http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/diceman50/Hank%20fuel%20injection/DSCF0199.jpg
Last edited by diceman; 01/23/10 11:44 AM.
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Good to know, thanks.
My, what a steep learning curve. Erik II#5155
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As a general rule I don't like things that look like something else. Disc brakes hidden behind finned phony drums, Studebaker/Olds valve covers on a SBC, injection that looks like carbs, etc. But I like this project and how you are doing it. It has a reality of it's own. You've broken a lot of new ground here. Beater
"I wonder if God created man because he was disappointed in the monkey?" Mark Twain
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Well done!...
This is an excellent install, if you have an OD trans I'm betting that you will increase your highway mileage by 15% providing the tune is good.
51 GMC 4.2 turbo
Can't solved today's problems using the same technology/thinking that created them
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On to phase II - New engine
My 235 fuel injection project is done!!! Although we are still troubleshooting a noisy VSS signal and fine tuning the VE tables I am officially declaring this phase of the project successfully completed. The truck starts, idles, and drives beautifully. A/C, cruise control, and overdrive are all working great. We have logged almost 3000 miles while testing. With my friend Greg's help we were able to overcome several unforeseen problems including Idle Air Control (IAC) volume and distribution, manifold heat( or lack thereof), fuel distribution strategy, and we even found a couple of GM computer software glitches. Though it was difficult at times it was also a lot of fun and very satisfying overall. Without Greg's help and knowledge of the GM computer this project would not have been possible. He even wrote some custom software code to allow the computer to control the Gear Vendors overdrive and the electric manifold heaters.
I hope ya'll enjoyed reading about it.
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"UPDATE"
Just a quick update on my project. I have put 6000 miles on my truck since the conversion to fuel injection. Overall I am very happy with the performance. Start up, idle, and drive-ability are great. The only disappointment is fuel economy. Gas mileage is 15-16 mpg and identical to the carb. Technically the mileage is slightly better than before since I added AC at the same time. I guess it is a little greedy to expect better performance and better gas mileage while adding air conditioning. There is probably some mileage improvement available by fine tuning the VE tables. But, since I am planning on installing a supercharger this winter we decided to wait until then to do so.
The truck is down right now for a complete brake and suspension rebuild. It runs a lot better than it stops and handles.
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What A:F reading do you have part-throttle cruise?
Using vacuum spark? How much?
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when carbs are running on their main metering circuit they are at their highest effeciency, it takes a certain amount of horsepower to propel the vehicle along at a certain speed -thus it requires a certain amount of fuel to create that horsepower, so there should be no big change in gas milage if the carb was jetted correctly. But drivability in and about town where there is much transitioning between the idle, enrichment, and main metering circuits should be much smoother than with the more primitive carb. These old trucks usually had 3.90 rear axles and even with 235's could lug around corners with no stumble problems. To get some better mpg a taller rear ratio could now be used and let the efi and big inches really shine in drivability and "no stumbleness". Stout stuff!
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thus it requires a certain amount of fuel to create that horsepower
That's only the BTU content of the fuel. All the combustion does is expand the working fluid, and except for diesels the cylinder is never full at part throttle.
What's different is that anything that increases the working fluid mass improves power and reduces pumping loss.
An engine at 14.7 can't get the same mileage as one with 60° spark and 22:1 mix. The same fuel volume is producing much more power, but those settings are very knock-sensitive and can't be used at WOT.
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"I wonder if God created man because he was disappointed in the monkey?" Mark Twain
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I see a tripe side draft Chevy 261 when I attend a show in Turlock every year. It is a street use car and it runs great. The three intake ports are a throttle body system. I don't know whose system it is but the running qualities are impressive.
Normbc9
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I can't believe it has been 4 years and 25000 miles since I finished the fuel injection on my truck. Oh well, life happens. The engine swap and supercharger that I was going to do 4 winters ago is finally going to happen. I finally found a serviceable 261 and it is at the machine shop now. After searching all over the country for one I found it just a few blocks from my shop. Plans are for a .040 overbore, mild blower friendly cam, an 848 head with some bowl work and minor port cleanup, and a McCullough VS57 supercharger converted to a SN unit. While I am waiting for the machine shop to finish I have been working on the supercharger and an old turbocharged Corvair air cleaner that I am going to use. Plan is to use the high pressure area in front of the windshield for some extra supercharging and as a cool air source. Following is a link to some pictures if anyone is interested. Unfortunately they are not in order. http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/slideshow/Supercharger/Inliners%201
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