Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance 292, looking for options/opinions

Hello everybody. I guess I should start with I'm working on a '65 c10. I was going to do an lsx swap as I'd like my truck to be a reasonable driver but this 292 setup kinda fell in my lap. I was just going to flip it to make some $ for the lsx but I'm liking the quirkiness of this engine. Currently it doesn't run. I'm assuming the carb is just really dirty from sitting. It will run on ether though. So here's where I could use some guidance. Is it worth doing some kind of 2bbl carb swap? Or is going 4bbl the better option. All out performance isn't a concern but mileage is. If 2bbl is worth it, what one is recommended?

That is one way to get up and running but I have to confess that I'm a efi/turbo guy. I understand and am comfortable with that stuff, but carbs seem like black magic to me. haha. I'd really like to do a mpfi setup. I would really like to get my hands on one of those Brazilian heads. Does anybody have one they'd like to sell? Or maybe have connections that can get/ship one? That would be the ideal/simplest solution to doing what I'd like, but might not be an option due to availability. I also did some research on splitting the intake ports on my stock head. That's an option, but just bolting a head on would be so much easier. So, is the Brazilian head even accessible or would I be stuck adapting one of our's? Either way, I'm capable of doing all of the fab work but dividing intake ports would take some time.

So what's your thoughts? Throw a carb on it for now even though I have no idea on how to tune one? Hold out for a Brazilian head? Maybe try to find another head an start mutating it?

The Brazilian 12 Port head is always an option, it's just that they end up costing much more than they are worth by the time its gets shipped up here. TBI setups have worked well with the siamese head if that is another option for you. What kind of HP goals do you have in mind?

Best way to get better mileage would be to add a 4 barrel, intake, headers, and HEI. Also adding an OD trans would helps things Alot. You can turbo charge a stock 292 to as much as 10 pounds. Guy did it and loves it. 10 pounds will put you at something like almost 350+ hp....rough estimate cause I'm not sure on how much hp per pound of boost. My thoughts....Purchase a set of turbo pistons from Tom Lowe at 12bolt.com and a turbo cam. Have some head work done...Lump port..1.94 intake and 1.60 exhaust valves installed. Then a stock rebuild and balance from there. The stock piston is capable of boost, but is cast and heavy. Better to find forged pistons that are lighter. Check out Tom Lowe's sight and videos on youtube...he has a turbo charged and fuel injected 292 in his el camino. Thing moves! He's apart of this sight as well..TLowe is his user name I believe. I just did a 292 as well. You can see it in other threads I've posted. It'll be making around 300 hp and 330 torque naturally aspirated with boost still an option. TJ

This is where my interest truly lies right now. MPFI not TBI I'd be looking to have around 300-350whp. That doesn't mean it has to be that high just cruising around. I'd probably back the boost down and put it around 250-275 to daily it around. Do you think that a healthy stock bottom end with the Brazilian head would handle that reliably? If so, I know that I could package a nice little kit on it either using the stock efi intake or fab a custom one. Do you have access to one of these heads? What would you expect me to have to pay to have one in my hands? If you don't want to post that kind of info, feel free to pm me. Thanks.

Tuning a carb isn't too difficult once you start in on it. Honestly I'd recommend starting with rebuilding the one you've got now. A rebuild kit will only run you about $40 or less and you can learn on the one there now.

That's what I did with my 250. In fact I had the same thought you did: I bought my 68 Camaro thinking I'd pull the engine and toss in a crate 350 with EFI. Ended up liking the 250 and the attention it gets but didn't like the lack of power. I fixed everything else on the car first since the 250 ran (but not well) and last summer managed to get first place in mild modified at Camaro nationals. I had all sorts of attention while everyone ignored the two built up V8's on either side of me.

So I got hooked.

I rebuilt the 1bbl about a year ago (before the car show) just to get by so I already had my hands in a carb though it wasn't a lot. At the show I decided to just go full-in on the 250.

First thing I did was buy a set of long tube headers. Tried them. Didnt fit. sent them back.

Ordered a set of Langdon headers and ran a single 2.5" exhaust. That really woke the car up! Now I was onto something!

So I found a used Holley 8007, 390 CFM 4bbl carb on ebay for about $100. It was a steal but needed a complete rebuild so I bought the rebuild kit and dug in. Set everything to factory specs on the carb, then bought an Offy 4bbl intake. Put it all together and she scoots now!

Still tweaking the carb a bit. Fought against and won a battle with a vacuum leak. Now figuring out the power pump (she stumbles a bit when you floor it). I think I know what the problem is there. If we didn't constantly have snow right now it'd be fixed too.

Now I'm debating on what's next. I'll probably pull the engine next winter for a full rebuild. I might do a cam now, though.

All in I've spent about the same amount as I would have for a crate 350 but I now have something very unique and about the same power. I can get more power out of her with head work and a cam but I don't feel the need to do that immediately like before. I'll probably change the transmission next (2 speed powerglide with a 250 just doesn't work well as a combo. I'm thinking 700r4 but still up in the air).

Long story short: The inline 6 is a fun, smooth, quirky and unique engine. With the right intake, exhaust and carb she'll go pretty good. If that's not enough throw a turbo on it and it'll keep up with most built V8's out there. Without a turbo a built inline will keep up with your run of the mill V8 without a problem. I know my car is faster than my buddy's stock 68 327 and probably more fun as well.


edit: I'd recommend staying away from MPFI. I thought I'd go that route as well but after talking to Tom Langdon and others on here decided it was a bad idea.

MPFL would be fine if running a true 12 port head, but fuel injection with the stock type head proved not very useful because of the siamesed ports. My 2 cents. TJ

Why not just buy a Mike Kirby head? Yes it a good buck to get BUT By Far Better then the Other. And it will OUT flow The other.
at this point.

gbauer, I might end up doing that if that's what it takes to get my truck on the road when the time comes. But I have to admit, I have no clue what it is you're talking about. haha. And I still have a while until then as I have a lot of work to do on the truck itself.

I guess this thread really isn't going to be to productive since I knew what I would really like to do to begin with. I didn't know if doing a 2bbl and opening up the exhaust would really help this thing out. Doing a full on engine build is something I couldn't justify. For that much money I could build a stout 6.0 that is far superior in everyway except uniqueness. Doesn't make sense for a driver, huh?

Hopefully somebody can lead me to a Brazilian head. Then I wouldn't have to worry about what to do while the rest of the build is going on.

I wish it were that easy. While all out performance isn't a concern, $$$ is. From what I've seen for the price of his bare head I could buy 2 6.0 drop outs around here. I'm not trying to take away from his products because they speak for themselves. They just don't fit in with what I'm wanting to do or can afford.

If your looking for economy a 292 is not the best place to start - lots of torque - not so good on gas.

You might want to consider a vortec 4200 - if you can find a complete 2wd trailblazer thats been bent in half - you can use the engine and trans + its MPEFI from the factory - 275 or 290 HP inline 6. Locally at the u pull it yard we can get a drop out for ~$700 with the harness, pcm, dressed engine and transmission. In a C10 driven normally you'll get ~24 mpg highway. The extras you would need is a rear sump oil pan and a pickup tube out of a 5 cly. colorado. Strip the harness and reprogram the PCM to kill VATS and wire it in.
Engine mounts (home fabricate) and an EFI fuel system round out the extras. 4200 projects + info

You should just post this every time as your sign off info.

Such as this from Beater.
_________________________
"I wonder if God created man because he was disappointed in the monkey?" Mark Twain


MBHD

I've hooked several people up in the past with one of those heads, but it isn't an overnight thing. They operate much differently down there in Brazil than we do here in the US, so it may end up being a couple of months before they can find one and get it shipped. They also are proud of those heads, and many are still in operation and on the road because they didn't come out until the mid to late 1990's, and that is what they use down there for racing also, so they don't really last too long in junk yards before they get bought up.
The last one I got priced for a guy was $600 for a complete head, but "as is", they don't tear them down or clean them to pressure test or magnaflux. Then it's $300 bucks to ship it on top of that. And like Larry said, they don't flow very good. Not sure what the current market price is on one today though, i'm sure its that much or a little more by now, and so is the shipping.

Wouldn't this be a perfect application for one of CNC - Dude' s 2 bbl manifolds? Hint hint jay 6155

Rickoner.
A 292 with a 2 barrel is still some what starved for fuel. If your not wanting to put a ton of money in then I'll repeat myself. A 4 barrel, headers, and hei will help alot. Those and a 5 speed or some type of OD trans. That combo will get you better mileage and a little more power. Your mileage on the highway cruising in 5th could be as much as 16-17 vs 10-12 stock. It all depends on how you drive it..if your foots in it all the time don't expect great mileage, but if you cruise it since you only want it as a DD( I think) then you'll notice the mileage change. Don't expect a huge increase in power with just the 4 barrel and header and hei swap. 20 hp and 15 torque in the max increase but noticeable. The brazilian head will probably cost a whole lot more than just taking the stock head and lump porting it and having bigger valves put in. Price that as well. I believe it was $800 including parts for me to have my stock type head lump ported, bigger valve grind, .030 shaved, bbc studs installed, magnafluxed and checked for cracks, valves and valves springs installed...completed head for $800. Not bad at all. TJ

Now is definitely the time to decide: Build the 292 or sell it and get a V8.

That said I'd probably just get what you've got running on the cheap and try it out first. Besides if you do sell the 292 you'll get your money back out of it if it's running when you sell it.

Don't be afraid of carbs. They're really not tough to work on. In fact they're probably easier than EFI because they're less complex. Besides if you just worry about getting it going you can spend more time and effort on the rest of the vehicle.

Thank you to everybody for your input. I greatly appreciate it.

I'm going to give the 292 a shot since I have very little $ in it and it's already mounted in my truck now. I'm going to build around it for the time being. If I can get a head I'm going to go that route. But if not, I'm thinking I'll just do as gbauer suggested and rebuild my stock carb. Try to get a feel for everything and go from there. If it doesn't work that good for me, I can always do the LSX later.

Cnc-dude, I'm going to try to send you a pm.

This is a time when I agree with efi-diy. If riconer sees his choice being between a 292 or a V8 then he is in the 4.2 zone. He says he is a EFI/turbo guy, all the better. Why not go to the modern inline 6. It is clear that he is not bogged down in old time 6 cylinder folklore.
We now have at least a half dozen 4.2s in our local chapter and those guys are active in our group. They are almost a subclub. Marc's and other's work has helped to solve many issues that used to make these engines more difficult to use. It is getting harder to argue with the power, milage, and cost if using a 4.2. I am even giving some thought to putting one in my '68 flatbed instead of the turbo/efi 292 i've been not building for years now.

Your right Beater, it's getting harder to argue the practicality side of the 4200 swap anymore. Your starting off with a 150 HP advantage right out of the gate with the 4200, and anything you do to either engine at this point, the 4200 will always have that 150 HP lead over the 292, and still be cheaper and get better MPG as Marc keeps pointing out. Plus, the 4200 is an all aluminum engine and lighter than the early iron engines, so they are cheaper to ship if you find one on Craigslist.

Not to highjack the thread...but exactly how much hp does the 4200 have? And what were they in...blazers? TJ

The 2006 and up 4200's had 290 HP in stock trim and are only 256 cubic inch, compared to the 140 or 150 HP of the 292, and later year production 292 were as low as 115 HP. They are in Trailblazer's and other GM products like that. The pre-2006 4200's still had 275-280 HP. So they have a much higher HP to cubic inch ratio and technology on their side that makes the difference.

The 4200 is a good engine, but don't they look kind of ugly for an early car. With all the plastic covers, casting bumps they look strange to me. You open the hood on new cars and could be electric or a wind up motor for all you can see.

I just think of all the modern street rods that use covers to hide the engine.

Does not look like a mean nasty high horsepower engine.

Just my thoughts

X2 ! Harry,

the 4200 engine is a great performing engine & responds well to mods.

The 4.2's were never made to look good w/out there plastic covers & what not. Hence, they are ugly.

I like the look of the 194-292 engines.

I think if you were to be more practical, an LS series engine is the way to go.
More parts readily available, aftermarket parts for every part of the engine you can think of.

Just some of my thoughts.

MBHD

That's perrty neat consider the amount of money it takes to make a 292 make 310 hp. lol

Harry and Hank I agree with the looks thing that is why I put, "It is clear that he is not bogged down in old time 6 cylinder folklore." We know what a hot inline should look like, but maybe it's not too for some others.

Harry,

Guess you have not seen a recent picture of my 4200...

Once you toss the plastic air box, pull the intake/cam cover and then put some paint on them they start looking better.

Just ask some of the guys that were at Colorado Springs last summer...

Are you saying a Jag inline DOHC six is ugly .. its got the same bumps as the 4200... ( just curious if you got the same opinion of ladies with bumps in the right places... haha)

Having started with a 292 - then moving on to the 4200 - I wouldn't go backwards period.

Lots of room in the C10 to install the 4200 and it'll look no more out of place than if a LS went in. Plus the number of people that stand around going what is it... draws people in.

Try one day you might like it...

Lets see some pics.

Are you saying the 4.2 looks just like a Jag inline 6 DOHC?

Do you think the 4.2 looks like a sexy/good looking engine?

That inline 4.2 would look totally out of place in that truck as compared to an LS engine, that is the norm now a days. LS, all the way, jump on the wagon.

I am sure once you install a turbo LS engine in your truck, you would never go back to a 4.2 either.

You should try one out.

MBHD

Can you post a pic of your 4200? I've never seen a real, live unicorn....

This 4200 is kind of sexy
http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/ho...ne-turns-heads/

Gary Harts vesrion isn't too bad either.

http://www.vortec4200.com/forum1/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1099&start=30

Ouch!!!

16.5 @ Hot Rod Drag Week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRLZB3E4jhA 2:38:54

http://www.autorooster.com/0-60-times/chevrolet/trailblazer/

stock heavy trailblazer ET 1/4 mile: 16.4 sec

How much does a 4.2 Trailblazer weigh? 4000 + LBS?

Same old-same old- The 4 banger guys thought the '32 Ford Flathead V8 was ugly but it kicked their asses anyway. I thought the first 270 Jimmy I ran against was ugly until I watched that big long orange valve cover go by. Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder! Like a lot of you I've grown fond of our old timey inlines and I know what they are but I like them anyway. I didn't want a new Davey Crockett either but Billy Bob kicked it. That said it's not the looks of the 4.2 that impress me, thats why we have hoods/

You said it right, "Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder! " But also, to each there own.
I've been called dumb for building a six in the 80's
I could have had a V-8

The old 6's do need some touching up to look really nice.
http://sissellautomotive.com/engine%20builds.htm

A stock looking 194-292 does not do it for me, but they do clean up nicely.

MBHD

A 4 wheel drive trailblazer is mor like 44-4500 pounds. Only 3 gear ratios were used 3.42,3.73,4.10. Most were 3.42, some 3.73 and very few 4.10. Jay 6155.

Thanks for that.
I do not think Gary's old pick-up weighs that much? Could be wrong though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRLZB3E4jhA 2:38:54

MBHD

According to this, 2wd 4417lbs and 4wd 4600lbs. Of course that's for the regular wheel base model. The Long wheel base would be even more. Pretty heavy for a 6 cylinder vehicle in my book.

http://www.new-cars.com/2002/chevrolet/chevrolet-trailblazer-specifications.html

That just means there is a market for someone to design and make stuff for them. Leo's engine made 1150 HP with a mild tune. I can venture to say a 292 will never make that much HP, and if it ever did, by then the 4200 would be making 1500+ or more. I've even seen one that is claimed to make 1800 HP with a blower.

How much can that old Chevy truck weigh with the light 4.2 engine?

MBHD

my old mostly stock inline 6 did 13.2 in the quarter.

S52 M Roadster. Warmed over a bit but nothing too crazy.

The point isn't to see how fast a new engine can go. The point is to see what we can get out of these old iron slugs.

I kinda like mine.

[img]http://m.imgur.com/3CV2lQ6[/img]

Actually I have a LQ4 in my malibu wagon.. just don;t talk about it on here..

As for Gary's mid 16's et - his turbo center section had issues and it was only making like 5 psi - the compressor was rubbing on the housing - that why they dropped out. I was there when he pulled the plug.

Since then he has installed a bigger turbo and is tickled pink with it. Its become his daily driver.

Want to know more - go talk to him.

What should have Gary's smaller turbo 4.2 have run?

Are you saying he did not make a full pass on 5 PSI?
Seems like the ET matched the MPH?

Glad Gary is happy on how it runs now.


I would like to hear more about fast ET's with the 4.2 instead of reasons why the 4.2's don't run good.

Street cars, drag cars do not really get my attention, they should go fast, they are a drag car, right?

Cars like this impress me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7XfT9ot8EE&index=58&list=FLC47WILAMLZIhl7pE8DUelg

@ 1:20

MBHD