Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance need advice heating my clifford intake

Hey guys! I'm trying to get some things buttoned up on my 292. I think I am correct in assuming I can use the small port on the passenger side of the Tstat housing to supply the heated water to the manifold. However....in my opinion running a bulky hose up over the top of the engine would look like hell. I was wondering if anyone makes a spacer that fits under the Tstat housing with a tapped port on the drivers side.

Would this work? One review said it does not work with GM tstat
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mez-wn0028u/reviews/

Just thinking outside the box here, but could I use the passenger side upper port and run the line around the front of the radiator and then back into the engine bay on the passenger side to the manifold. I know this would be a loooong line but I am just trying to figure out a way to keep the engine bay tidy.

Also am I correct in assuming the lower port in the Thousing was the factory return from the heater?? If so what is the small top port used for on the water pump?
https://www.facebook.com/168904043122881...e=3&theater

Why not just "t" into the heater hoses at the firewall, then route them behind the engine to the manifold?

How about running your line starting at the rear drain on driverside to the manifold, then out of manifold to the thermostat housing? Higher pressure at drain outlet and lower pressure at T stat housing. You can also use metal lines.

The small top fitting on waterpump is the "Bypass". This would normally go to the T-Stat housing. Really only needed for the HD use these engines endured in working environments. Heavy trucks, combines, Ag equipment, ect.

Would the line to the T-stat housing be above the T-stat?

The line goes below. Into the lower housing.

what great pics. does every machine shop do all these operations? why use dished pistons?

There's lots of ways to do this. This is how I did it. Doesn't look too bad and keeps the hoses around the back of the engine instead of the front.

I got longer hoses (roughly 10' of each), routed them through the fender, came into a T, and ran around the back of the engine to the intake. Just have to be really careful not to bind up the throttle cable assembly.

This would seem to change the cooling of the engine. A little more water to the back, but is part of the engine now starved of water?

The waterpump can put out massive flow. The back of head has 2 large water flow openings that match the block. The little amount of flow going thru the lower block will be un noticed by the engine.
I run mine this way on the Elco and the 65 wagon. Have not had a problem yet.

Hey thanks for all the replies guys, much appreciated! Just another quick question.........Does the Clifford intake have a required directional flow inside? Another words does the water have to enter from the front and exit at the port nearest the back of the engine. Just curious if there is some kind of plenums or something going on inside the intake.

Nope. Either way works.

Water runs down hill so it's changing all the time unless you live in Kansas.

Ok so I am still kicking around these ideas heating the manifold. I kind of like TLowe's way. Just curious though as to the size of the line used. The supply hole out of the bottom of the block is only 1/4 NPT and the holes in the manifold are 3/8's? Would a 1/2" line supply and evacuate enough water to and from the manifold? Or do I need to rig a bunch of fittings to get up 5/8th hose? Curious to know what Tom did here.
I am trying to do this while keeping the manifold heat, and cab heater on there own designated hoses. I guess it's just the analness in me.

I simply used 3/8 hard line. Like brake line with the inverted flare fittings at each termination.
I have it shown in my wagon video on youtube.
After running it, you cannot hold your hand on it, the line is that hot.

I am with tlowe . . . the rear drain-cock forward to the water pump seems the most direct route to take:
Inlinter's post circa '13



The direction of flow is from the pump pushing coolant into the block. In stock configuration the only way for the coolant to get out is for the thermostat to open. By tapping into the draw side of the heater circuit one creates flow through the intake even when the thermostat is closed.

Using hard lines is clean up top - and the balance of the plumbing can be muted with paint.

regards,
stock49

Be wary of using threaded brass or copper into the block with a lot of plumbing hanging off it. I have had brass pipe fracture at the threads near the block from engine vibrations. The threads greatly amplify the stress concentration in the pipe. A rubber hose connection into a nipple would be better.

Somebody always has to rain on my parade! LOL! Actually Frenchy your point is a valid one. Why couldn't I use something like this to come out of the block. Its steel 1/4 NPT to 4AN
http://www.jegs.com/i/Earls/361/961644/10002/-1?parentProductId=

I am thinking of running the supply from the block up to the front most port on the intake. Then come out of the rear most port, down, around the back over the
tranny, and then along the bottom portion of the head below the plugs to the pump.
I know that is a long ways to go, but it seems like the cleanest way to get there. does this make any sense?
I just think coming over the top of the motor for the supply looks terrible.

Some thermostat bases have a "not drilled" bung on the driverside. And some thermostat housings have the same thing. Does yours? If not, look thru your spares for one.

Tom, all I have is the port for the bypass hose on the drivers side.
https://www.facebook.com/168904043122881...e=3&theater

Thats why I originally thought a spacer under the Tstat would work. Like this one, it would put the exit port in perfect alignment for a nice clean tun to the manifold
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/vta-706001-vcq

Here are two. The orange one is from my 153 4 cylinder. The black one is from a Mercruiser 120. I like the black one but it has no place for a thermostat. Talk about hot rod!

Guess I will re-plumb with an iron nipple into the block. Going to be tough as the mock-up was done on the engine stand - as was the final installation which was completed before hoisting the engine and trans back into the car. The drain cock line is in a very tight spot and the pipe needs to loop around the header. And I was trying to keep it as close the block as possible as this is a very busy spot in the engine bay.

Ok heres a better look at what I have. Just out of curiosity, what kind of PSI would be going through these lines if I picked up the water at the block?
[/URL]
[/URL]

That would most likely be limited to your radiator cap.

Just a side note: I ran one of those spacers for a while when I first put in my electric fan. No interference issues and the stock radiator hose fit fine.

Actually the radiator cap controls the pressure on the radiator side of the thermostat. The RPM of the pump impeller dictates the pressure inside the block when thermostat is closed. By tapping into the block and the pump input one is diverting water from the block through the manifold creating a by-pass circuit around the thermostat that is always open. The pressure and the amount of flow through the bypass is a function of the tubing diameter. Which I think should be kept on the small side . . . I am using 3/8 hard lines.

I sell pumps for a living. Large municipal stuff. I deal with pumping systems FAR more complex than the cooling systems on a car.

You're absolutely right about using smaller lines to divert flow in the way we're discussing. If you're going off the T-stat housing then you should use lines as small as possible to transfer the heat while minimizing the reduction of flow through the engine where it's cooling.

Mine are large because they come off the heater core. I can afford to waste a large amount of flow with minimal loss to the car's heat.

The radiator cap has nothing to do with this stuff on this system because it's a vented system at the radiator.

The 3/8" line you're using would be what I would use.

That's true, not everyone uses thermostats though, but I was thinking in regards to the engine being at operating temp driving down the road with the thermostat being open. All pressure will be the same throughout the system at this point.

The system has the most pressure when it is boiling over. Depending on the coolant and the cap pressure rating this can be at a much higher temp than the 212F of boiling water. This is the pressure the system must contain and allow the pressure cap and overflow tank to do their job. A weak connection, old hose,on sticking thermostat can be very dangerous. It's not all cosmetics unless you are covering up burn scars.

You still want restriction to the intake or you're robbing flow though the block if you route it like that. My way doesn't rob flow from the block.

Heat transfer is about moving enough fluid through the hot stuff to take that heat away.

By the way: I'm also a Mechanical Engineer. Not just a pump salesman.

"You still want restriction to the intake or you're robbing flow though the block if you route it like that. My way doesn't rob flow from the block".

So I can't tell by your pictures but, are you feeding you intake through the upper port just below the tstat, and returning it into the small port in the pump?

I am assuming you have some kind of of control valve on those T's to your heater or how else would you keep the hot water from circulating through your heater all the time and why would you want to do that?

There are really not a lot of choices here. The objective is to move hot coolant into the intake hot spot.

If one taps into the lower half of the thermostat housing and into the block - there is no flow - that is until the thermostat opens. Trouble with this approach is that the intake 'hot spot' is constantly shedding heat. So this is not really an option.

In evaluating choices that actually produce flow there are some obvious limitations. The two ends of the heater loop are an obvious place to 'butt in' . . . but when plumbing through this route be aware that when the heater temperature control switch is set to cold there will no longer be flow through this path. When fitting tees also beware of this valve. Not to mention that both fittings are on the passenger side - making for long ugly plumbing.

Also, one is not so much concerned with robbing flow through the block - as one is concerned with impacting the opening and closing of the thermostat. Bringing cooled water into the chamber under the thermostat proper (via a second fitting) may create a hot condition in the block not visible to the thermostat as cooled water is flowing by . . .

Moreover, at operating temperature the thermostat is not constantly open. It cycles from closed to open to closed again. When closed the radiator is given time to do its job cooling . . .

Thanks FTF! I see lots of evidence online of others having brass nipples shear off due to vibration. I will re-plumb with iron. Better safe then sorry . . .

Wow! As the original poster, I didn't realize I was opening up such a can of worms. It seems there are wrongs and rights to consider.

If someone has the time can you take a look at this video on youtube at the 1:13 mark and tell me if this was done correctly. From what I am reading in this thread it is not. Looks as if his one line is above the Tstat. Seems to me he is getting limited flow and only when the Tstat is open.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxuSGXqGnf0

My head hurts from all of this!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

It's not a can of worms . . . it's plumbing and stock coolant flow paths. With the way you have your lines run you have tapped into the input side of the water pump (good) - but you are drawing water from the top side of the thermostat, which is the cool side of the circuit as water normally flows out of the thermostat into the radiator. On the older stove bolts this area can actually go dry between thermostat cycles. Not sure if the newer Chevy's behave similarly. This could create cavitation in the impeller (sucking air).

In the video there is also a fitting below the thermostat that appears to have the temperature sending unit. It is on the hot side of the thermostat. A tee fitting there would pull coolant from the hot side.

BTW the lines and fittings are first rate - very clean. I like it. Is your upper radiator hose entering the radiator at a place that is entirely submerged by coolant? On my '49 this is not the case - nor is the radiator cap pressurized.

If the inlet side of your plumbing is always wet - it may not really matter that your pulling from the cool side. Prior to entering the radiator this is the hottest part of the cool side. :-)

But in thinking it through - until the thermostat opens there is no flow with this configuration. It is pulling water off the top of the radiator through the intake and forcing it into the block. Until the thermostat opens there is no circuit for water to flow. :-(

But when the thermostat does open you are drawing water that was hot enough to open the thermostat in first place . . . so instead of constant flow you are getting a cycling of the hottest flow . . . which may very well be getting the job done.

If you are connected in the housing below the T-stat and at the block drain isn't the pressure the same at both ends? why would the water flow? Possibly because the front connection is closer to the pump?

xactly! That's why one has tap into the input side of the pump:

This is exactly what I was thinking. I guess even if you have equal pressures at each end, you still have a heated manifold. Your just doing it by having stagnant water inside the manifold.
It would be nice if Tlowe could do a test for us by making a copy of a clear Clifford manifold and running a motor on the dyno with clear hoses so we could see what is actually going on. LOL!

...or just use a thermometer....

If you don't mind the junky looks, and if you are careful, you could just get a long length of heater hose, come away from the firewall and wind the hose around your intake and on to your water pump like a boa constrictor. This was a good cheap temporary fix for the milder and shorter wintertime driving in Texas. I had a UNHEATED four bbl Clifford intake and some Hedman headers on a '67 Chevy halfton with a 250. It made a difference, and got you off the choke pretty quickly. It may not be good enough in the N.J. climate, nor Union approved.

Maybe give 409 stainless tubing a shot, heard it is great for everything. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

MBHD