Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance Old vs New

So, I am at a cross roads and am not sure which path to take... Weighing the pros and cons on this and would appreciate input.
Do I go with the 250 I have on the stand or move up to the 4200???

The 250 will be as such:
Fully done head, lumps, bigger valves, screw in studs, roller rockers
Forged Pistons
Forged rods
Lightened crank
Custom roller cam
Roller lifters
Keeping my same worked over Offy intake and Holley 500.
15 lbs boost with air/air intercooler and meth injection.

The 4200 will be as follows:
Stock long block.
60lb injectors
Tune on the computer
15 lbs boost with air/air intercooler and meth injection.

I am looking at not only the engine but also the transmission, rad, exhaust, etc.
the 4200 requires either an adapter plate for the trains or a 4L60 from the donor vehicle (means I have to find a 2WD model).

The fabrication involved in swapping the 4200, I am more than capable of. The wiring I can do. I cannot tune the computer.

The more I look into doing the swap, the more things seem to be coming up.

I need to make an educated decision and move forward! I'm just having a hard time.

Going with a roller cam setup in the 250 is going to add some big bucks to the price tag of your build. If you already have components for the 250 installation such as headers, intake manifold, this will make the 250 build a bit more attractive. While the 4200 will require the exhaust to be custom $$$$, the oil pan to allow an install into your vehicle($650-ish), either an adapter to install a conventional tranny in it or use the 4200 tranny which may require a custom driveshaft.

In the end, I think you will have considerably more HP with the 4200 on 15 lbs of boost than you will with the 250 with 15 lbs of boost. So if your goal is max HP, then the 4200 is going to be the best choice for your build.

One final thing to remember, with both of these engines having almost the same cubic inch, and with both of them bone stock, the 4200 has 150 more HP than the 250 does. So as long as you perform similar mods to each engine, the 4200 will always have at least a 150 HP lead over the 250.

My ultimate goal is a street warrior. Not full out max HP. Total sleeper.

I guess my concerns are more based on a lack of knowledge on the 4200/4L60.

Either direction will cost about the same with similar power output, though the 250 will be at the top end of its life and the 4200 more mid-life.
I've no intention of touching the internals on the 4200 (at this point) as I read and hear they can handle 15 lbs in stock form.
So a built 250 will have about the same output as a stock 4200. Seems an easy choice, so why am I having such a hard time with it?!?

Very rough cost breakdown is like this...

250
Head - 1000
Pistons - 1000
Machine shop - 1000
Rad - 400
Plus miscellaneous.

4200
Buy engine, Trans, rad, drive shaft, wiring harness, computer - 800
Break the wiring and flash the computer - 1000
Exhaust -500 (includes me making the up pipe and down pipe)
drive shaft - 3-500
Plus miscellaneous for this install etc.

I didn't include the fuel system, meth injection, frame connectors and random things that apply to both builds.

Now that it is written down again, it does appear to cost less going with the 4200. I'm sure there is a lot that I have overlooked!

You'll also likely need a better connecting rod for the 250 engine build as well. A stock rod isn't going to be up to the challenge, so more expense there too. Its hard to argue the better technology and abilities of the newer 4200. Its superior in every aspect compared to these older engines all the way down to the cost. Plus, you have more room to grow power wise, while as you said, the 250 is going to pretty much be at the top end of its ability and limits, and this usually means low longevity. So I think the obvious choice is the 4200.

You guys have discuss a bunch of the keys, but I have some to add.
Check out a HP/tq curve on both engines. I have one one YouTube with the 250 dyno run. The 250 puts out more tq at lower rpm.
The 250 really does not need the added cost cost of roller cam and lifters. Use the money on something else. Like rods.

I'm an old guy and I like old stuff. The 250 is almost too new for me. A strong old engine that can almost keep up is cooler than an new engine whose only reason to be here is because it's bores are in a row and it can out run old engines, That said a few of my friends have 4200s and like them. They are all strong runners. They have a totally different look and sound that do nothing for me. They take up more room than a small block V8 and are harder to swap. If I were to swap out my 270 for something else it would be my 331 Caddy and I'd go back to three on the tree and a BW T85 OD. Blasphemous

I forgot to add the rods!
Sure makes the 4200 attractive!!!

I think many of us have forgotten that even back in the earliest days of hotrodding in the 20's, 30's and 40's, engine swapping has been the best way to get the most bang for the buck that our hot rod forefathers found to get the job done. For some reason today, engine swapping is thought to be taboo and a no no. Why is that? But yes, the 4200 is an attractive alternative for sure.

I don't think it is engine swapping as much as a completely new engine design. I have owned lots of vehicles since the 60s and only a few retained their original engines. The 4200 has little in common with the inlinesI I know and enjoy. Lots of valves, overhead cams, aluminum block, head, pan, computer everything and high rpm plus power and fuel economy. Maybe part of it is mechanics controlled by electronics.
There were a lot of the same discussions when the Ford flathead V8 replaced the four cylinder and when it gave way to the SBC. The talk didn't last long and the new engines prevailed. They took over the shows, streets, and race tracks. The old engine buffs gather in ever shrinking speciality groups with protected old motor events and visit museums. It's strange at a time when lots of younger people are discovering hot rod history and gathering in their own special groups with old style events and museum visits.

Great thread at the perfect time for me. I have pretty much the same goals as dodgycanuck and just spent some more time over on the Vortec4200 site trying to familiarize myself with that motor. I also suffer from the same bias as Beater re: old stuff, if you can call that suffering. It seems a 'hard sell' on the 292 I'm looking at in both money and power, but on the other hand the Vortec somehow leaves me cold. I'm not throwing in the towel on the 4200 concept yet but I have a real personal connection to the 292 from one we did in the machine shop back in the mid 70's that went in a '68 Camaro owned by my cousin. He threw #1 rod thru that one and it stayed in the family all these years till just a few mos. back. Now owned by a friend who will put the 396 back in it, the blown 292 is mine as soon as it comes out.

My biggest concern is longevity and popularity of these engines. Having owned a '32 with a stock engine, parts were hard to find. In 30 years, will the 250, 292 or the 4200 still have parts readily available?

On the topic of hot inline sixes, the kid at the auto parts store had his 280Z in the parking lot. Talk about power to weight ratios, those cars really move.

I don't think we'll have to worry about the 250/292 stuff fading away any time soon. The earlier Stovebolt and GMC stuff is still relatively easy to find after being out of production for over 50 years now. The 4200 engines are still too new to worry about them being difficult to source parts for the next 10-20 years. The interest is what stimulates the demand for parts and production numbers are just too high. Just look at the Model A engines and Flathead Ford stuff. 80 years since the Model A and T engines have been produced and you can find anything for them still including brand new aftermarket blocks and heads being made currently. There has just been very few engines made in the last 100 years that you can't get most anything for today.

Scott, Can you find me a rebuild kit for my 1919 Essex? Just a carb kit and the top plate for the carb would be nice.

Sure, let me call Corky, he has connections for all that old stuff like that.

Just saying stuff about parts being hard to find. I'm really not looking right now but I'd like a connection. You'd think an engine with the Essex Four's racing history would have a following. The Hudson Essex Terraplane club didn't turn up anything at all.

Beater,
You might check with Amodel25.In talking with him in Laughlin he had mentioned that there was a large contingency of 4banger folks in Texas and Oklahoma region.

There's a little bit of everything in Texas, Just look around and you will see. Oh wait that's a song. The Texas hot rod tradition is second to none they truly cover all the bases. That's where I got my start. Maybe that's the problem. I would be interested if there were Essex four cylinder guys. Most seem to be in Australia.