Inliners International Forums General Discussion Drive Train Good shifter for the Saginaw 4spd

My Chevy 250 has a Saginaw 3spd with 3.50:1 1st gear from the the factory. The second gear really is too far from 1st and final gear for comfort. Really needs that extra gear of a 4 speed. So I'm shopping for a Saginaw 4spd to swap out, and would like to stick with the deep 3.5:1 1st gear.

But once swapped I'm wonder what shift is good with the saginaw 4spd? The stock 3spd unit clunks a little sometimes, and it's hit an miss with going in and out of reverse and 1st gear. So I'd really like a quality shifter. Anybody have any experiences, preferences, or recommendations?

I'm seeing the Hurst Competition Plus being recommended for Saginaw 4spd elsewhere on the internet. A good option? I know i would be ending up spending more on the shifter than on the transmission. But this is an area I think would be justified in splurging a little because a reliable and fun shifter would be a joy-multiplier.

What is it in? If it' a pickup or a car with a bench seat there may be a clearance issue with the shifter. Patrick's sells an adapted Hurst for the Sanigaw that move the shift lever forward. I used one for years when I had a Saginaw 4 speed in my pickup.

Sorry, 1978 Camaro, so bucket seats, shifter sits high on the tunnel with no console. 250cid with Saginaw 3.50:1 3spd. The 305cid and 350cid came with the Saginaw 2.85:1 4spd. And the Z28 came with the T-10 2.64:1 and a Hurst shifter usually. Since both the Sag 3spd and 4spd came in the second generation, Hurst should have a kit for mounting to it. As far as I know, the shifter does not need to be moved forward for clearance.

I'm also watching some shifter installs. With the Saginaw design of having reverse on the cover with the other gears, that means the combs should keep you from shifting into a forward gear and reverse at the same time like you can do on a Muncie or T-10 with the reverse in the tail. And with the stop bolts on an aftermarket shifter, that should prevent pushing the shifter and forks against the comb to break them. Seems like that would help with the Sag durability? Especially behind a street 250.

The Hurst shifter works just fine on the Saginaw 4-speed. In the mid 1970's I bought a '64 Nova that had a Saginaw 4-speed in it with a Hurst shifter, and I never had any problem shifting gears with it. Just as a side note, the shift lever itself is held on with two bolts and Hurst offers about a dozen different designs of shift lever to fit up with just about anything in the way of interiors and seats. As a matter of fact, I still have that trans and the Hurst shifter is still on the Saginaw. The extra gear made a huge difference in the car's personality and made it much easier to drive. I could never understand why Chevrolet refused to offer the Nova six cylinder models with a 4-speed.

Yeah, that's why Integrated-Jay recommended doing a Sag 4spd swap with my Sag 3spd. Direct swap out, same 1st gear, but splits up that middle gear so it doesn't have the big jump and make it easier to drive. The stock 1st is good for across the intersection, but then you got a bit of catch-up when you go into 2nd. And there just doesn't seem a smooth transition. 30mph is too low, 45mph too high, never any Goldilocks in between.

Yeah, Chevy was putting the 3spd in the base small block too, the 307 and then the 305, even the 350 LM1. They finally made the 4spd the base transmission for all small blocks in '78, but the inline still got the 3spd for '78 and '79 before being fully replaced by the V6.

Forgot to mention the shifter in the cabin has a vinyl boot with stainless steel bracket to cover up the hole, and then a long chrome shifter handle that is bend backwards with a black plastic ball that is molded to look like sewn leather. I've considered putting a stitched leather cover over my steering wheel like I did with my first Camaro and then find a matching leather ball shifter. Add some style of luxury feel to it.

I was very confused trying to figure out what Hurst Competition Plus shifter model and kit would be needed to swap the stock 3spd Sag for a 4spd Sag.

Looking at the descriptions for each product on Hurst's website, there was a consistent recommendation for the Muncies and T-10s from 1967 through 1982 on Camaros. They had a shifter and kit for the '67 &'68 451, '69 452, '70-'74 453, '74-'81 454, and '82 455. Every Camaro with an L48 SS, Z28, SS big block, or LM1 with close ratio had a recommendation for shifter and kit.

For the Saginaw's it seemed like some years were missing. They had recommendations for 441 for '67 & '68, then again for '73 thru '77, and a recommendation for the Sag 456 in '82. I kept wondering if I was missing a model that was need for late second gens, early second gens, or the '69. After looking and looking, and making a little chart of what models covered what years I think I know why it is incomplete. Hurst is more interested in the HD performance trannies, and so the Sag 4spd is not their priority. The only reason they have recommendations for '73 thru '77 Sags on a Camaro is that at that time the only way to get a close ratio Muncie or T-10 was on a Z28, and those had slumping '73 and '74 sales, and were discontinued for '75 and '76, then only reappearing halfway through '77. So most 350s sold during those years came with wide range Sag 4spds. So just by availability they listed them for those years, and not the early '70s or late second gen like mine because the Z28 was more common.

Given that their recommendations for the Muncie 453 and T-10 454 do not change for any second gen Camaro. I think their recommended 3917438 shifter and 3738607 kit that are recommended for the 441 from '73 to '77, will also work on a '70 to '72 as well as the '78 to '80 Camaros with Sag 441s. Summit has the shifter for $365.69 and the kit for $182.61. Some places carry them bundled together too. I'm going to start looking around eBay and other places to see if I can find a used one to clean up and save some money with.

BTW, anyone know what color the factory painted the Sag steel 4spd and 3spd? Just a basic black? I'm used to the aluminum TH350 and TH400, along with the aluminum T10 and Muncie which were all left natural when installed. My bell housing on my 3spd is painted the same GM engine blue.

Mine is painted a sort of teal blue-green, which has always made me think that it might have come out of a Pontiac. But after doing a fair amount of online research, I've never been able to find what kind of vehicle my Sag trans came out of originally. The guy I bought the Nova from said that it had a Corvette 4-speed in it. Of course, later on, I found out that Chevy never put the Sag 4-speed in any Corvettes, so whoever sold the guy the Sag we feeding him a line of bull. But it worked great in the Nova, so that didn't matter.

By the way, have you already bought a Saginaw 4-speed?

I have saginaw 4 speeds and 3 speed overdrives that were red, orange, and black when I got them. I have no idea if any were the stock color. The 4 speeds came in four different ratios distinguished by the number of groves on the input shaft.

0 LINE INPUT -2.84/2.01/1.35/1.00

1 LINE INPUT - 2.54/1.80/1.44/1.00

2 LINE INPUT - 3.11/2.20/1.47/1.00

3 LINE INPUT - 3.50/2.47/1.65/1.00

A Hurst Competition Plus is hard to beat. I don't use anything else in my race car stuff of street cars either. I've used them on Muncie's, Doug Nash' and Ford Toploaders.

Hmmmmm.....sounds like they painted them engine color. So I guess I should clean one up when I get it and paint it GM engine blue.

No, I have not pulled the trigger on one yet. I'm finding a lot of 456 models listed online. And some that don't say if they are are 441 models, but have the lower bolt holes on the bottom of the tail housing like the 456, but also have the bolt holes above that the 441 has. So I think these maybe Vega and Monza 441 units. They've all been 3.50:1 or 3.11:1 trannies. The only Saginaw 4spd that did duty in the Camaros were the 2.54:1 from '70 to '74, and the 2.85:1 from '75 to '80 (no Sag in the Camaro in 1981, only T-10s on Z28s), and always behind V8s.

Beater, where are the lines/grooves on the input shaft? On the splines, the part that fits into the pilot bushing, or the stationary part that the input shaft rotates in?