Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines Battery is now dying.....again

Just replaced the battery in April, and now it won't charge. Checked with the store and they charged the battery for me and checked it under warranty, and said it was good as new. The "gen" light is not coming on, and I cleaned all the cable contacts to make sure they were grime and oxidation free. Battery still runs down. I had replaced the alternator two years ago, so it would a real pisser if it were bad so soon. (It was clocked at the wrong angle for the L6, so I really need to take it apart and re-clock it for easy access to the connectors). It's still the original starter too, so that might be an issue. I may take the alternator and starter in to check them soon. Any other problem I'm overlooking?

Aftermarket radios can be a battery killer.
Starters don't have trickle drain problem. Alternators do.
Easy to figure out. Get a inline amp meter and monitor the current draw with all hooked up. Do not try to start car or run anything other than have door open. You can blow the meter. Then unhook the alternator, see if drain goes away.

Charge the battery. Make sure the battery will start the car. Disconnect the battery and let it sit over night. Reconnect and try to start the car. If it starts, you have a charging/electrical system problem. If it doesn't start you have a battery problem. After this test, move on to correcting the problem.

It doesn't start when fully charged; get the starter checked

It starts after sitting overnight; tlowe#1716 has the answers.

It doesn't start after sitting overnight; return the battery.

Yeah, I just moved and my amp-meter is MIA until I go through everything more thoroughly. Stock AM radio right now, I haven't gotten around to swapping it out.

Damn, I just realized I should have put this under the electrical issues thread.

OK, I'll try that before going through the trouble of yanking the alternator. It's the one thing on the inline six that mostly accessible from underneath the car, so it's a pain.

It's weird, because it was a hard start to get it going the other day, but it started. Then I drove 40 miles, stopped got out for a few minutes, got in and couldn't muster the juice to start. Someone jumped me, and I was close to the store I got the battery so I drove there. They checked it and said it was still good and recharged it for me. I started it up twice more that day to get to work, then stop and get food, then drive 40 miles back home. Then two days later, it wouldn't start in the driveway.

I didn't think the alternator was an issue because i didn't have a warning light, and it drove for 40 miles twice without dying. But maybe it is both a bad alternator and bad starter. The alternator failing enough to not charge properly and drain it when off, and the starter taking too much juice to work due to its age and exasperating the issue? Or maybe the battery too? I cleaned the connections on the battery cables nice and shiny. The negative cable is new, but the positive is original. Could be an issue there?

Does the light come on when you try to start it? Just making sure the gen light works...

I had lots of problems with my charging system too. I ended up just putting in a GM 1 wire alternator. They're about $60 or so and though you lose your gen light they work really well.

...I fixed that gen light problem by buying new gauges that I mounted below the dash.

Yeah, all the warning lights come on, bulbs are good.

Have not seen it mentioned here yet, but perhaps your voltage regulator went out. I usually toss a new one in when I replace an alternator. You say the FLAPS checked the battery and confirmed it to be good, and that you replaced the alternator a coupla years ago. Might be the voltage regulator.

do you have a voltmeter? Like in your dash. I have a triple gauge that tells me oil pressure, coolant temp, and system voltage. if you are getting about 12 volts or less at cruising speed, say 1200 rpm or more, battery and alt are new, shiny connections and grounds etc, sounds like it might be a regulator. My 292 idled around 800-1000 and always had about 13v at that speed.

Nope, only idiot lights. Like I said, I just moved and am still trying to figure out where I put my multimeter. Someone walking by had suggested the regulator too.....but it's internal on the '78 alternator. I'm sure I could change it with the alternator apart to re-clock the position of the connectors so they are accessible in the stock location. I'm also still eyeballing the starter as a contributor to the issue....38 years is pretty old. The positive battery cable maybe isn't in the best shape either.

I know the feeling. I just moved also, and the engine I need to transplant is up the road at the in-laws. Time and money seem to go hand in hand these days, moreso than ever.

what year make and model vehicle, what size engine, and what, if any, modifications are we working with?

one thing that comes immediately to mind is the wire that goes to the positive distribution block, if its a chevy mind you.

Forgot, not everyone has seen my project thread before looking at this.

1978 Chevy Camaro 250, stock setup with 42k miles, 2nd integrated head

Negative battery cable was replaced, but positive is still original.

"If you do change the starter. I always recommend stepping up to a newer GM PMGR (permanent magnet gear reduction) unit.
For the 153 tooth flywheels , I believe it is a 1995 Camaro with 305 starter
For 168 tooth use a 1996 Silverado with 350 starter.

They are a direct bolt in, are high torq and low weight.

Some older engines (pre 74?) will only be drilled for 2 straight across starter bolts, these require the diagonal bolt. It will need to be drilled and tapped. Easy to do."


Tom do you have a part number for the starter you recommend?

No part #. But it is pretty simple. Figure out what size flexplates you have and call the parts store with either one of those two applications I gave. You will be handed a PMGR starter. Once done, put your old one in as a core. The kids won't know the difference.

Nor would they care, a core is a core. What two applications? Didn't all Chevy 250s come with a 153 tooth flex plate? I still don't understand the 1995 Camaro application? There was no 305 in the Camaro after 1992 when they ditched the Chevy small block. Is it the 3.4 V6 in the base Camaro, that you are referring to?

Ok, I will try it again.

Just looked it up.

Application to buy starter for to get a PMGR starter, the good kind that has a nose cone and can be bought anywhere and works great.
for 153 tooth flexplates use 1995 Camaro with 350
for 168 tooth flexplates use 1996 Silverado with 350

To decide which flexplate you have. Look at your existing starter.
If the 2 mounting bolts are straight across it is a 153
If the bolts are staggered, it is a 168

Older engines that have 2 straight across bolts will most likely need to add the staggered hole. Simply bolt the starter on with 1 bolt and correctly align it up. peen the staggered hole location, drill and tap. Be cautious doing this. You need to be accurate.

Ah ok, not the 305 but the 1995 Z28 LT1 350. That makes more sense.

I'm working two businesses and 14 hour days this summer, I don't really have the free time to be upside down under my car drilling and tapping overhead. If I need a new starter this summer i will got with a stock replacement I guess.

Your engine is newer and most likely has all 3 holes.
These newer design starters really spin the engine nice.

Oh sweet!!!!

Let my Camaro sit while I was busy over the summer and moved. Couldn't find my multi-meter until today. So, I had the store test the battery and fully charged it. Time to troubleshoot the system tomorrow.

A really good test is what Blackwater said. Disconnect the batt overnight and see if it will start the car the next day after making sure it will start the day before. I have seen electronic battery testers say a battery is good but it won't work the load of the starter. Jay

Two days sitting without disconnect, started up with engine balking for over 30 seconds but plenty of power. 12.9 on the multi-meter, 13.6 idling, and 14.4 at higher rpm. Headlights, heater fan, radio, and dome light (forgot wipers and washer motor) made little difference. I can turn the alt fan by hand, so I will snug that belt up some more. Seems to be no issue now.