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#95112 01/19/19 07:06 PM
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mick53 Offline OP
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I'm having the front straight axle on my 53 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup altered along with 57 Bel Air 2" drop spindles so I can put my 12.88" Wilwood disk brakes on it.I have done some searching and some say negative and some say positive angle. This will be a driver that might end up on the strip if I happen to pass by at check in time. I believe the blown 292 weighs less than the 235 even with the 4-71 blower. I plan on running an 8" wide tall tire. I need to give my fabricator an angle. Thank you for your time and advice.

mick53 #95114 01/19/19 09:52 PM
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Are you sure you mean camber?

mick53 #95115 01/19/19 11:32 PM
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I would suggest you find an old time front end shop that knows straight axle settings and practical applications. I use a shop down the road from me that was started by an old truck guy who has passed down the business AND the knowledge to his son!! He set up the suicide '48 Ford split wishbone axle under my A Model rat rod. He also did the front end on our old Nova drag car that we put a Mustang/Pinto front end under, a light airplane that crash landed in the field behind our subdivision, AND our Top Alcohol dragster, all of which drove perfectly after he set up and aligned them.

Knowledge is the key here. A good shop with some old school alignment equipment is where to start looking. Ask around. The old rodders will know where to look!!!


Never use a minor caliber bullet on a major caliber adversary
panic #95116 01/19/19 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: panic
Are you sure you mean camber?


I thought so until now. I guess i"m asking the difference from vertical for the king pin.

mick53 #95117 01/20/19 12:17 AM
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Camber is the angle from vertical - side to side
Caster is the angle - front to back.

Will Willis

mick53 #95118 01/20/19 12:39 AM
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I would guess camber to be very small and (perhaps) negative (wheel leans in at the top).
Caster determines self-centering, always points forward. Higher speed: more angle (but Tony Foale's work argues that trail is more important than the angle). High angle means high steering effort but tracks straight ahead more reliably, small angle wanders easily. What numbers? These were commonly made to be shimmed to adjust the KP angle, ask if that's possible. You may use the original number and be miserable. Power steering may allow a higher angle without excess arm fatigue.

panic #95119 01/20/19 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: panic
I would guess camber to be very small and (perhaps) negative (wheel leans in at the top).
Caster determines self-centering, always points forward. Higher speed: more angle (but Tony Foale's work argues that trail is more important than the angle). High angle means high steering effort but tracks straight ahead more reliably, small angle wanders easily. What numbers? These were commonly made to be shimmed to adjust the KP angle, ask if that's possible. You may use the original number and be miserable. Power steering may allow a higher angle without excess arm fatigue.


I am running EPAS electric power steering if that helps. I thought the caster was set with shims? There are shims between leaf springs and axle now and have been for at least 39 years.

Last edited by mick53; 01/20/19 01:21 AM. Reason: info
mick53 #95120 01/20/19 11:21 AM
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Yes, either a wedge (thick end faces forward) or only shim the front bolts, etc.
The trail is harder to figure, since it involves the front wheel & tire radius as well as the design of the KP (not just its inclination). Even very low caster ("rake" in a motorcycle) is stable if the trail is enough. This is the distance a theoretical line drawn through the KP axis intersects the ground, compared to a vertical line through the spindle, in inches. Zero trail is a shopping cart.

mick53 #95121 01/20/19 12:39 PM
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panic!! Excellent explanation!!


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panic #95122 01/20/19 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: panic
Yes, either a wedge (thick end faces forward) or only shim the front bolts, etc.
The trail is harder to figure, since it involves the front wheel & tire radius as well as the design of the KP (not just its inclination). Even very low caster ("rake" in a motorcycle) is stable if the trail is enough. This is the distance a theoretical line drawn through the KP axis intersects the ground, compared to a vertical line through the spindle, in inches. Zero trail is a shopping cart.


Thank you for the reply. I'm trying to understand this. I will not be engineering or building this myself. They may have to CNC out a new spindle and or axle. My problem is nobody makes a spindle for a 53 that will accept my 12.88 6 piston Wilwood brakes. I have never been a "they don't make that" kind of guy. Just ask my engine builder. His reply is usually "you want to do what". I have a friend that owns an orthopedic machine shop that would make them out of Titanium if I ask him to. He's a little strange like me. Thank you for your time and thoughts.

mick53 #95155 01/27/19 03:17 AM
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I'm not clear on what you're trying to achieve with the mixing and matching of parts. 57 cars are independent front suspension, 53 trucks are straight axle. Totally different in all regards.

Anyhow I do like your out of the box thinking. It seems that you already have the Wilwood setup. Sounds like a whole bunch of machining involved to get it to work. A simpler solution would be to use late model Silverado rotors or even Toyota rotors on your stock 53 truck hubs. Then have a bracket made for your calipers.

mick53 #95163 01/27/19 05:39 PM
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Are you planning on doing this so you can use the 12.88" brakes you have available? I ask because I converted my '46 Ford pickup over to Speedway brakes (11" rotors, Chevelle calipers) For $315. Complete. You may end up spending more than that for the custom axle / spindles and related machining. And my truck stops just fine - way better than the original hydraulic drum brakes. So - maybe sell your Wilwood parts and consider a complete kit from Speedway or wherever.


FORD 300 inline six - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING!
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Originally Posted By: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
Are you planning on doing this so you can use the 12.88" brakes you have available? I ask because I converted my '46 Ford pickup over to Speedway brakes (11" rotors, Chevelle calipers) For $315. Complete. You may end up spending more than that for the custom axle / spindles and related machining. And my truck stops just fine - way better than the original hydraulic drum brakes. So - maybe sell your Wilwood parts and consider a complete kit from Speedway or wherever.

Thank you for responding. I already have the 12.88 Wilwood disk kit. I have them on my Frankland rear end also. It appears I was over thinking things trying to make the spindle fit the axle. I believe I can get spindles that match the bearings and just make a mounting plate for the calipers.

mick53 #95313 03/05/19 06:13 AM
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mick53,

I'm a dipstick, I hadn't looked at this tread to be honest. A little light went on in my head as I understand what you're doing...LOL

I was trying to fully understand your problem, and don't understand suspension well enough to offer any advice. Given that fact, I thought I might be able to embarrass myself and ask some really dumb questions. wink

Ultimately it seems having no camber when the truck is driving it the best, it is why cars get corner balanced. I have had my 911 corner balanced and it is amazing how nice it drives after it is balanced. The rear will always change as the car accelerates/decelerates naturally.

I know the place I've had corner balance my 911 also does older vintage suspensions. I've seen them do it with a machine that spins the wheel on the car after it's mounted. Then they dial it in until it runs true.

In the best world wouldn't it be 0 degrees camber? As long as you set it for no camber, you could adjust it in/out if any was there after the wheel is mounted. (I think confused )

This sounds like an amazing front end. I don't know if I will modify mine to that extent at some point, but have pondered it...and have talked to Wayne at Code504 in the past, real nice guy.

How did you add the 292? Did you use a kit, or roll your own?

Are you using the stock frame?

Making the mounting brackets for the calipers sounds like a decent little project. Someone on a CNC could do it in no time most likely. I would do something like that manually and take much longer. But it can't be too difficult to make. How would you mount it? Bolts or weld?

Sorry for all the Qs, but now I'm much more curious to understand what you're doing! LOL


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Keroppi - 1946 Chevy 1/2 Ton Pickup
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Originally Posted By: Keroppi
mick53,

I'm a dipstick, I hadn't looked at this tread to be honest. A little light went on in my head as I understand what you're doing...LOL

I was trying to fully understand your problem, and don't understand suspension well enough to offer any advice. Given that fact, I thought I might be able to embarrass myself and ask some really dumb questions. wink

Ultimately it seems having no camber when the truck is driving it the best, it is why cars get corner balanced. I have had my 911 corner balanced and it is amazing how nice it drives after it is balanced. The rear will always change as the car accelerates/decelerates naturally.
I am using stock frame. My engine mounts were made by CCP I think. They made a 1/4" plate to bring them straight across and then used a biscuit mount going to a cee channel that fits over my frame cee channel.I will then make a block to fill the void and bolt through the vertical part of the frame and the mount. I was told not to weld it or bolt through the top and bottom.
I know the place I've had corner balance my 911 also does older vintage suspensions. I've seen them do it with a machine that spins the wheel on the car after it's mounted. Then they dial it in until it runs true.

In the best world wouldn't it be 0 degrees camber? As long as you set it for no camber, you could adjust it in/out if any was there after the wheel is mounted. (I think confused )

This sounds like an amazing front end. I don't know if I will modify mine to that extent at some point, but have pondered it...and have talked to Wayne at Code504 in the past, real nice guy.

How did you add the 292? Did you use a kit, or roll your own?

Are you using the stock frame?

Making the mounting brackets for the calipers sounds like a decent little project. Someone on a CNC could do it in no time most likely. I would do something like that manually and take much longer. But it can't be too difficult to make. How would you mount it? Bolts or weld?

Sorry for all the Qs, but now I'm much more curious to understand what you're doing! LOL

mick53 #95327 03/08/19 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: Keroppi
Would love to see some pics of your project.

Oh my, I found a thread over on ChevyTalk...I'm not sure what to say, that looks awesome!

I rotated that pic, here it is: cool

Is that a T5 tranny on there?

(Inliner Forum seems to restrict the size of the image... frown That's odd, it's hosted on my server...yeah, if I right mouse click and view image, it's large... tired )



TT
Keroppi - 1946 Chevy 1/2 Ton Pickup

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