Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines Help indentify '55-'62 235

I'm a bit confused looking around, this number doesn't seem to make sense, but this is what I have. I believe this is BM 479639, but not sure if there is a letter in front of the BM or not.

The Block Casting number is 3836848. I believe this is a '55-'62 235 with pressure lubrication.

What say ye?

Can anyone help identify what year this engine was built? Also what it was originally shipped in?

Is the 3836848 on the head? That is a '56 and later 235 head. There is another cast number on the block.
Sadly some of the number lists on this site no longer work. Worse some of the other sites depended on this site for that information. It is likely out there .
Check for another cast number on the block, passenger side I think. The stamped number tell details of the use of that engine. I can tell if it was in a car or truck or if it was a factory replacement. It may tell what transmission was on it. That may be on the Hemmings site.

The only other numbers I've seen is a 11, I think on the front of the engine block on the passenger side. Maybe between the exhaust.

I think I need to clean some more around the engine.

There's a T which I am guessing is for Tonawanda???

Langdon has this on his site...but mine could be '55-'58 and I don't see all of these numbers, mine looks different, but that could be because of all the wires and such...this pic says '58-'62. I'll dig around some more tomorrow.



I don't see anything but I didn't see anything until I took a wire brush to the engine to get the above I first posted.

I have a pneumatic die grinder I can use a wire brush on, maybe that will make short(er) work of it, if it can fit in between the stuff.

Hi Keroppi . . .

I am with a Beater: 3836848 is a head casting number first used in '56 on a 235.

I have a feeling that the serial number on your particular block was transferred there from another engine. Back in the day there were several states where Titles and Bills-of-Sale carried the engine serial number as the vehicle identification. So when this newer engine was swapped into the vehicle the old number was transferred in order to jibe with the paper work on the vehicle.

But the number you have is somewhat confusing because AFAIK that two letter prefix was never used. 1946 was the transition year away from two letter prefix to YAP codes (Year Application Plant):
Old Car Manual Project
Early '46 trucks had engine codes of BG and BL which was a carry over from '42. The second series had engine codes of DAA and DAM. This is for the light (1/2 ton) trucks that had 'car' engines.

Alot of serial number listings on the internet just summarize all of the prefixes by year. If one goes back to the original Specifications Guide one can find the 'Application' codes for the heavier and long wheel base trucks:
tocmp: 1946 Truck Specifications

So a BM is a 216ci truck engine for a 3100 series built in Tonawanda. But the Year is missing . . . e.g. DBM - '46, EBM - '47 , FBM - '48 etc.

When the engine serial was transferred it was omitted. Perhaps because it was also omitted on the Title? Speculation but plausible.

Moreover the YAP numbering scheme only runs through '53. In '54 the codes changed and moved to a suffix (as described at the Old Car Manual Project).

So in this case - casting numbers are all we can go one.

regards,
stock49

Update: I did a little more leg work over the GM Heritage Center. I was curious about this BM prefix. That prefix was actually used in '42 on 3/4 ton heavy duty optioned trucks: 1942 Specifications - serial numbers are on page 6.

Yes, that much I have known since I got it a couple months ago.


I think that's possible, but don't know how probable it is. Everything seems to check out on the VIN with what is on the cowl plate, located on the passenger side, the VIN of my truck is 14DPF2135. It's hard to read the 14 in the beginning but is there. I haven't tried to remove any paint yet, there's Rustoleum slathered over the entire truck, both green and black. I kinda like the patina and plan to leave it as-is on the outside.

The transmission does in fact have a number that matches the YAP, here's a pic. This would make sense for DO being for a truck and the D coincides with '46 from what I have seen, although it seems to be for '45, somewhere it seems I saw '46 was D. My truck is also a DP, which is one of the early models after the switch. So mine is the newer style and the DP fits that as well as the DO on the transmission. My understanding is that the O designates it was in a truck.




Yes, that could be true, but from the paperwork from original and 2nd owner, the VIN seems to be what is on the cowl plate.


I will wire brush some more and see if I can find anything else around the engine. I don't seem to see all the numbers that Langdon's site show, as pic'd above in the '58-'62 picture.


That's interesting as passenger cars and light trucks (i.e., 1/2 ton) had the same transmission and rear end, AFAICT.



This is interesting, it shows DBM as an engine designation of DBM and there's a possibility that it is DBM, but that is not clear at the start yet. I will try to clean that flat boss and see if I can see anything prior to the B.


Yes, that is one of the confusing pieces to this puzzle.

Thanks for your reply, it's helping to bring some of the pieces together that are unclear.

The '14' prefix indicates that the truck was assembled in Baltimore - the 'F' indicates a June build. The fact that the VIN is intact on the truck and matches the Title creates an unsolvable puzzle. Why did someone go to the trouble to transfer the engine serial number from a '42 216 to a circa '56 235?

The block cannot be original to truck - even with consistent serial numbers.

We know this to be true because a 3836848 head has 18 head bolts. Blocks from the earlier '37 to '53 design had just 15 head bolts. There is no interchange.

Good question, I was thinking maybe someone put the head on an old block, but you dispel that in your last comment about bolt patterns.


Nor the head. (aren't I smart? )



Yes, it's puzzling.

However, it seems that whoever did the engine swap knew a bit about the inline 6, and the reason I say that is because they knew which vintage to pick for the replacement. I was first wondering if the engine could have been from a Corvette or other car, and would that make it different...I need to wire wheel some of the engine possibly. I've got some small brass wire wheels that will fit in a Dremel, that might let me put it on a collet extension and get into those tight areas. A die grinder might, but that's pretty tight behind the exhaust and such.

stock49,

I notice that there are B prefix engines in the late 50s and early 60s, where B designates a Powerglide engine. I see some PM designations in '61 for trucks, but not clear what that means...see here on 2nd page. Could be a P possible looking at it...I will try to wire brush it good tomorrow to see if I can dig up any more info.

http://www.1954advance-design.com/chev-specs/1961-t-ser.pdf

Where is the 11 mentioned earlier? Captain bars? 261?

BOTP,

The 11 is on the front right side, I think, top of the GM stamp in the casting. See last pic, I think that is what I was talking about. Not the captain bars that's over to the left and below the distributor I believe. This is also a 3836848 which is stated to only be a 235.

I have more info...pneumatics kick @$$, never underestimate a wire wheel on a die grinder...



Also, left side rear behind distributer is:

CON 1 K 30 3 (this looks like it dates the block to '53)

Under the GM stamp on the casting, right front under GM stamp:

('53 Corvette??? come on, don't $#!T me...LOL)

EDIT: The above image should be 3835911 for the block. I see it listed as such, but only up to 1955. That looks like a Corvette block, but the head I have is a 3836848 and it only listed from '56 on...since the K means it's November, maybe it was transition in late '55 with the newer head on it as that was the new model year after Sept. Does that make any sense? Did Chevy do that type of stuff?

EDIT2: Ok, I think I'm understanding what I have now, and part of it seems pretty cool..

According to this page, the block must be a 1953. However the head is newer from '56-'62, unless I'm mistaken. What is kind of cool is that for someone with a '53 vette that didn't have a block, I do have one! Not that I want to get rid of it, it is what is in my 'ol '46. Also according to this page, the JBM is legit on the engine number, although it doesn't say what a vehicle designation of B is. If this is so, J is for '51, but the K is correct for the '53.

(makes sense of JBM on the serial number)
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/models/engine.htm

(this page says after Oct. 16 in '53 could be corvette for 3835911)
http://www.1954advance-design.com/Stovebolt-engine/casting-numbers.html

EDIT3: Does anyone else think the font on the J looks just a tad odd, in comparison to the BM on the engine serial number? Could be correct, I don't know. Interesting that the head is one of the more desirable heads, and the mid-late '53 would be when the bolt pattern changed, to a block that would accept the newer head. This seems plausible to me. I don't know if this would peg it as a Corvette block, but it's my f#@$ing fantasy... As I've said all along, the guy that put the engine in seemed to know a thing or two about the Inline 6. I didn't quite luck out on the brakes, but getting them fixed

Whenever I get the cover off, the head should be dated. between the valves. Will be interesting to see what year the head is.

What say ye?

It's 53-55 Chevrolet 235 maybe truck maybe car, I have the same block in my shop right now. Just above GM on Mine is 10 , The Cast date on the rear of the block by CON 4 or Con 3 . My Block is H 16 4 which is August 16 54

Yours is Nov 30 53, It would have been in a 1954 production car or truck. It's more than likely a truck block, If it was in a Corvette you will never know as someone has changed the build code on the dist ramp.

You have the beginning of a great story. Maybe the guy had a '53 Vette that he put a V8 in and put the Vette engine in the truck to tow it to the races.
In the early 60s I had a '40 pickup with a 261. It had Corvette intake and exhaust manifolds. I wish I had that engine today.

Beater,

I think it's more likely that it's from a truck, but it's probably just coincidence. The only way to know for certain was be to see the cam, or when I get the info from inside the valve covers between the valves, the heads are dated there. It's better than having the original 216 in it, for me anyway...

BTW, I wish I could upload pics here to inliners. You mentioned before it's easier to post pics on H.A.M.B. and I agree. But I like this little forum here, this is more about the detailed data.

stock,

You gave me a piece of the puzzle there and I have to admit I missed it...however, it doesn't seem that J coincides with '53, and mine is a JBM on the serial number...that seems to give me '52. My stamp on the block is K303, and it's odd that the J is there on the serial number. Yes, this makes sense and bursts my bubble on the Corvette block, possibly.

Since it has a newer head it must be '53 as the block casting date, the later part of '53 is when that changed. And since mine is November, that seems to make sense. J is an interesting oddity on my engine block.

Hi Keroppi . . . to cbmkr's point - there is no consistency in casting dates and the serial number on your engine.

Keep in mind the sequence of events back in the day:
1) A block was cast in the casting plant (the CONV) tells us which conveyor it ran down - the casting number tells us the vintage of the mold used.
2) After passing inspection it was placed in (work in process) WIP inventory at the machining facility.
3) Once machined the engine was placed in WIP inventory at the engine assembly plant.
4) Once built (into a complete engine) it was assigned a serial number based on its sequence for the year. The sequence restarted with 1001 at the beginning of a new year. The prefix would be partially stuck (Year <space> Plant) for an engine assembled in '53.
5) Once a particular engine was assigned to a particular build of a vehicle - the engine would then receive the Application code added to the prefix. This happened at the vehicle assembly plant.

In this regard your engine is a jumble. The BM is correct for a 3100 series truck application. The year prefix (which I agree with you looks altered and struck with a different font) is for a '52. The block was cast late in '53. Depending on when the block was turned into a complete engine would determine its sequence number (high number from 53 or low number from 54).

And as we can see from the specifications for 54: tocmp: 1954 Specifications the serial number would have been struck on the left hand side of the Pad since the codes moved to a suffix in '54.

As for the 848 head. All we know is that it is not original to a late '53 block. How/why it got there is anybody's guess. The 848 head is a desirable choice among inline hot rodder's because it has a small combustion chamber which raises compression. Then there is the Parts Counter effect. Replacement heads shipped to GM dealers would have been from then contemporary production (the old part numbers were obsoleted when the new downward compatible part became available.)

regards,
stock49

stock,

My conveyor number is 1, do you know where that is located?

I agree with all you said.

I think there is something I know, which is the 2nd owner is the one that put the engine in. He sold it to a 3rd owner who only had it a bit more than a year. The 3rd owner didn't know too much about it, they had bought it for their Father who had a dream to have it, but was diagnosed with Parkinson's and the truck vibrated too much for him.

It was the second owner that I believe put the engine in, and the one that knew about the inline 6 to know what parts to use. I believe he could have put the head on the block intentionally.

You've helped me understand and pointed me in the right direction to dig up a great deal about my engine and truck.

Thanks so much.

It literally refers to the conveyor belt that the block ran along during casting. AFAIK this was done for QA purposes. If blocks in the inspection area started to fail tolerance tests then the conveyor in question could be shutdown until the issue was resolved. Meanwhile all of the other conveyors kept humming along . . . And I have heard that when things go wrong in a casting process (because of long cooling times) a conveyor could produce a lot of scrap until a problem was detected by inspectors.

Ok, I was thinking it was the main line, but it sounds like it's only for the block itself. I was thinking that Con1 was in some city and Con2 in another, Con3 in another, etc...

As I kid I grew up working for my parents near a GM plant. My family owned a liquor store. The GM workers would come in and cash their checks on Thursday night, and every night at their lunch break dozens of them would come in buying booze. They would joke about having extra nuts and bolts in their pockets...that was by the South Gate plant in Southeast L.A. They made Impalas there in the early 60s. Now I think back and ponder all of those 327s that must have been in that plant, but I digress...

There are still a couple unknowns, but I'm satisfied with what I have as a base engine to start with. The engine seems to run pretty good. I have much more work to do on the brakes and rear end than I do the engine.